Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

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mikey
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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#21 Post by mikey » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:41 pm

Jo'ogn >>> Ugh, you left me completely speechless there - what can I reply...?
Jo'ogn wrote:
Wait. It doesn't really say anything about "Oh, now we lived ever happily together and i decided to love her after all, because I didn't mean to be a pig for kissing a woman without loving her!" :wink:
That was my reasoning behind the good ending - it's all only implied though, and probably it doesn't even come across that strongly, but that's quite fine. What's also implied though is that of course even though it started with that weak moment, that that is still a case of true love between the two of them. I wouldn't want it to be any other way, and frankly I wouldn't think of it any other way when writing.
And as for a more "long haired"-style project,
well I think there is someone much more competent than me for that - though who knows whether that stereotype is something he really wants... I can't really speak on that behalf.

Ufff - I guess it's painfully obvious that I'm really not good at dealing with comments in that style.
Scout wrote:While you work that out, though, you could at least upload the distributions that are already sitting in your renpy folder to the forums. Surely that's not unreasonable?
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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#22 Post by usul » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:04 pm

Thanks for putting it up :)

Will DL tomorrow (limited bandwith)
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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#23 Post by Jo'ogn » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:09 pm

mikey wrote:Ufff - I guess it's painfully obvious that I'm really not good at dealing with comments in that style.
Of course I was partly teasing. Your game is not in the hentai section. But I was serious about the bit concerning
Cen dying. Maybe this is because the only commercial VN I played was "Kana imouto" and I never got the ending where she survived her illness. I only know about it due to Darkling's fanfics and occasional discussion with him.

The closer Cen was getting to die the more tense the emotions became for me and I felt a bit left off as it just ended with: "oh she's dead now. the End". You spent so much time introducing the auction - in this lengthy - frankly profane "Adrian way". I only skipped through it and started only to read seriously as Cen told the player that she was going to die, this was the point where ~I~ was hooked...

While I liked the options to focus on helping Cen, or rather distracting her (which I did). Sometimes Misha was too 'normal'. But I guess this is also a mechanism of VNs to try to make the average player feel, "Wow, this is what I would be doing." But your characters tend a bit too much to be "Gut-Menschen". They are too ethical correct :wink:
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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#24 Post by mikey » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:37 pm

Jo'ogn wrote:
But your characters tend a bit too much to be "Gut-Menschen". They are too ethical correct :wink:
Admittedly I do:
- have a love for abrupt or at least very quick endings with little explained (however, not ambiguous ones)
- I dislike deaths, and
- if the game needs it, I like to show people with weaknesses rather than with bad traits or immorality / unethical behavior.

It's been my way for this long and I suppose it's not going to change a lot. I know that many people like "realistic" characters or stories, but I'd consider myself more in the "idealistic" direction, if this must be classified. That said, I really dislike self-judgment, so...

But well, that's how I do things, and I also tried to look at what it would be like to write otherwise (like a dramatic piece about let's say if someone betrayed their loved one), but it just never felt right and I didn't want to write about that. Every now and then I think about this, but until now I've always felt that some things are just not for me - I do like to play many things I would never write myself, though. But that's something entirely different.

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#25 Post by chunderbunny » Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:07 pm

I quite enjoyed this game, the overall story was good (even if the ending felt a little hokey). Some of the dialogue could do with a little polish (a couple of minor grammar errors, a couple of sentences didn't really flow all that well) but overall it was good.

I just wish we had more of that amazing character art!

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#26 Post by Hime » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:03 am

First of all I have to say I found the concept of the game really interesting and original. :) Airships are always somehow romantic! I was also surprised to see how well Ren's (congratulations on your first VN!) and cloud's graphics fit together... myself I'm always a bit (too) skeptical about two different artists doing the art, but I guess Heiress II killed a bit of my bias.

I, like many other people in the thread, preferred the bad ending to the good one. The better ending was just... a bit too sugary, a bit too easy, I guess. Then again I've never liked
stories where a character is fatally ill/poisoned/cursed and is said to die of it but doesn't. It's just too predictable and... durrh, somehow doesn't seem to respect the fact that there are fatal conditions, and that they, without many exceptions, kill in reality.
...Which makes me happy that the author considers the bad ending the true one, in this case.
Altogether this was a nice experience with really good writing and illustrations. It's really admirable how touching it was in the end, taking to account how little time there was to develop the bonds between the characters and the player... All in all, good job and congratulations for making it in time! ;)
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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#27 Post by mikey » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:22 am

Thank you for the responses, I'm happy you liked the game!
Hime wrote:I was also surprised to see how well Ren's (congratulations on your first VN!) and cloud's graphics fit together... myself I'm always a bit (too) skeptical about two different artists doing the art, but I guess Heiress II killed a bit of my bias.
I only have praise for them, and of course I feel a bit smug for having such a lucky hand in going for that combination. But the reason it all worked was in my opinion also due to many other circumstances, as it is often the case. And I can only really just thank them again.
Hime wrote:The better ending was just... a bit too sugary, a bit too easy, I guess.
One thing to note, however, just so it's explained: While the bad ending is the true one for the story and (so it seems) people seem to accept it more, I have to say that I personally don't find the good ending unrealistic or useless - regardless of how predictable, regardless of how sugary it comes across (or even is).

The very simple reason is that I have to be honest - my own love life is so sugary and cliched, anyone would dismiss it as "too cliched" and "not realistic". The good ending with all the fluffy things and iloveyous where everything turns out great, I have that as a reality, and even though I may feel that it's not "typical", especially when I look around at friends and colleagues, I don't see it as unrealistic.

Sometimes I have the feeling that people want "realistic" things to happen in their plot lines, but these are in reality "most common" things or "most easily believable", or generally those they can most easily relate to. So a happy ending may not be typical ending for a situation like this, but I don't think it's fundamentally wrong. I guess often movies will have the happy ending so that it doesn't upset the potentially large audience in the cinemas or so that it spreads a positive message, but if I have such a happy ending, it's really more for personal reasons.

And then there is the matter of deaths. I suppose for everyone, and for me as well, death of a loved one is the biggest fear of them all. But I'm not superstitious at all when I don't like to "kill" characters - I simply don't really enjoy letting characters die or write about the consequences of death, so if there is something like that involved, I try to make at least one alternative where they don't die - consider this an ending "for me", if you like. There are a few games that I made which fit into this, and usually it's for the same reason:

The reason is that I believe that if there is a good ending, it can give purpose to the bad ending, if one looks at it a certain way. In real-life situation, you are often saddened by death when you know or feel or have hoped that something could still have been done or happened (this is especially true for tragic accidents or diseases) and if you were given the option of having your situation fixed, you probably wouldn't care if it would look cliched as a film script if it brings back your loved one, you'd probably be infinitely thankful - and the good ending is that hopeful alternative for me.

I can still understand that this can evoke the "happy ending at all costs" kind of ending that you can see in a typical mainstream film. Often people are so overexposed to sweet endings, that they become boring and predictable to them - but still, I wouldn't want to change Heiress II just to avoid this criticism. That ending has its reasons, and the game wouldn't be what it is without it. And I've written some posts before in a more general way that this may be the idealistic, rather than realistic approach, but this is really me, this is how I write and this style is what makes that game feel to me like it's an honest effort from my side.

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#28 Post by monele » Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:15 am

Hmm... this look at your inner-workings is very interesting :D and I really like the way you approach things ^^

About the VN itself: nice!
It hooked me in at the early revelation part, and then didn't let go. You managed to pull me through an accelerated "feeling close to her" sequence and by the ending, I had almost fallen for her. I did hesitate at the kiss part... and before that, almost went for help at the very last occasion.
The funny thing for me is that once she announced being poisoned and it was clear it was no joke, I didn't go with my usual optimistic self and I was certain it was how it was going to be... slow death and bitter ending. This is what made me pick all the choices to let her have a pleasant last night. Until the end I thought "oh god why, no ;_;..." and almost didn't give her the kiss, wondering if it was something that should be done... that would be fair... if she *really* wanted it (being delirious and all towards the end). Finally thought "if I won't acquiesce to her last request, why did I do all this so far?" and... yay! For me, totally unexpected good ending :D.

So for me, there was no "cliché" problem because for me, the cliché would have been that she did die, the same way people expect things to end up fine in a classic romantic comedy.

This said, I'll concur with people who said it felt a bit abrupt at the end. I tried the bad ending and it is very similar... maybe worse than the good ending. It's nothing terrible, but it felt lacking in closure for me. I'm thinking it might only have needed a few well chosen sentences of some sort to make it seem like an actual conclusion.
On the "technical" side, bravo to the artists and I was impressed at how little art there is in the end but how it all fits together. Cen was stunning <3

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#29 Post by Ayato Vu » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:22 pm

O.o

Two in a row!
I haven't even finished the first one due to classes...

I'm sorry!! >.<

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#30 Post by Ayato Vu » Thu Apr 23, 2009 4:05 am

That was... amazing. o.o
When she first said she was poisoned, I was just thinking to myself, "Did you know me when I was younger?" or "Are you trying to hurt me?"
So I decided to "play along." As the time went on, it hit me. "Woah, I really like her. She isn't someone that wants to make her name well known, but someone real. And the reality is, she is going to cease her existance."

I went through the game following her with just one thought in mind after that, "She wants to enjoy her remaining time. Nothing can be done but worry the "false" others. The others who would cry fake tears, and act as if they care."
The ending though, full 360 in an awesome way. I do wish there was an epilogue like in most of your stories Mikey!

But man, this just jumped right to number 3 on my top ren'ai lists. I think you know the other two ;)

Amazing game Mikey. I know I just said it, but it is through these games I can see a kinder world. (Cheesy isn't it? :P)

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#31 Post by mikey » Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:49 am

monele, Ayato Vu >> thanks for the comments on the longer epilogue - read and understood. And I'm really happy you liked it (yay for monele's cliche-but-not-really experience! :)
monele wrote:On the "technical" side, bravo to the artists and I was impressed at how little art there is in the end but how it all fits together.
Well, it was less than 7 days to go, so we couldn't do anything spectacular - Nevertheless, I enjoyed my self-imposed limit of 3 BGs and 1 sprite, that had an effect on a lot of the script. Indeed the first thing I did was send 3 sketches to lordcloudx, and I was effectively constrained then - but in a good sense. And we finished so close to the deadline, that amount was really just perfect.
Ayato Vo wrote:I know I just said it, but it is through these games I can see a kinder world.
Thank you for those wonderful comments. And I'm glad that you like the positive/idealist approach. It's really encouraging for me, especially for the future. :P

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#32 Post by sooty15 » Tue May 19, 2009 10:25 pm

Scout wrote:Uh... Mikey? Why did you make a game in Ren'Py but then not actually upload cross-platform versions?

Here, usul, and any other Linux/Mac users who can't open the EXE installer:

arigato! will play!

lol i am the number 1337 veiwer

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#33 Post by V2Blast » Sun May 31, 2009 5:08 am

A surprisingly deep game (
maybe minus the endings - I mean it in that they sort of cut themselves short
)... Cen's story (and her unwillingness to worry everyone else) really drew me in. I was sort of meh about the "good ending", but I'm glad to hear you thought the "bad ending" was the true one. :)
Pie is delicious.

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Re: Heiress II (NaNoRenO 2009)

#34 Post by Dollywitch » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:21 pm

I just decided to play this since it was short and I wanted a quick burst. Been meaning to check it out after I saw a thread going through random Ren'py games, and they said it got interesting.

mikey, I found your comments about endings very interesting. It is interesting how people consider the "bad" ending the more realistic one.
After all, in this case - can you even take the character on her word? How much poison entered her blood stream? If she got the numbers wrong, you never know. It's not unrealistic because we don't know the full situation.
I think it's because bad things seem to happen more often in real life, and really, they do. But that seems to make it all the more reasonable we would want positive fiction as well as negative fiction. I think Hollywood has soured people to the "good end" but in a sense there's nothing wrong with it, and culturally we tend not to write engaging "Bad ends". Plus if you watch anime or read VNs you start to get really sick of the "Bittersweet end" or Gainax end.

It's kind of an interesting thing to talk about, as a lot of people seem to almost have a fetish for bad ends. I think a lot of people believe it's more artistic or mature, when it's not inherently so at all.

I think a lot of the time you're forced to choose between bad, bittersweet, and good. Once you're introduced to the seedy, awful underbelly of the world, you have to accept someone's going to die. This isn't going to end well for most of the character. I mean look at that druggie shooting up, man. His life sucks.

I like the idea of accepting all that misery and despair and saying "Fuck that shit, we don't have to give in to that". If anything, this theme fits the VN quite well -
she's not literally fated to die, again we only have her word for it, and it can be easy to give into despair
. This is one reason why I actually LIKED Higurashi's end on one level whereas most others hated it, because they didn't get what it was trying to do.

And yeah, it's a real shame the endings were so abrupt. When you sit through a game even for an hour you kind of want some kind of reward for it. You're sort of progressing towards the end for a reason.

IMO I don't think it's unreasonable that people can fall in love that quickly. It may have been all in one day but they spent a lot of time together closely chatting, etc. Love isn't so well defined as to have a minimum time limit.

It think it would be a cool game to come back to some day, do an expanded version, or even a follow on story.

I found that one question kind of funny, the honest opinion about her. It's interesting because two of the things I find myself actively attracted to are chubby/curvy women, and awesome hair. It was like chosing between my two fetishes. But it didn't result in anything. Should have been an ending where she got bigger, or did something to her hair. Or teases you for your answer later on.

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