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Jo'ogn >>> Ugh, you left me completely speechless there - what can I reply...?

Jo'ogn wrote:

Wait. It doesn't really say anything about "Oh, now we lived ever happily together and i decided to love her after all, because I didn't mean to be a pig for kissing a woman without loving her!"

That was my reasoning behind the good ending - it's all only implied though, and probably it doesn't even come across that strongly, but that's quite fine. What's also implied though is that of course even though it started with that weak moment, that that is still a case of true love between the two of them. I wouldn't want it to be any other way, and frankly I wouldn't think of it any other way when writing.
well I think there is someone much more competent than me for that - though who knows whether that stereotype is something he really wants... I can't really speak on that behalf.

Ufff - I guess it's painfully obvious that I'm really not good at dealing with comments in that style.

Scout wrote:While you work that out, though, you could at least upload the distributions that are already sitting in your renpy folder to the forums. Surely that's not unreasonable?

Thanks for putting it up

Will DL tomorrow (limited bandwith)

mikey wrote:Ufff - I guess it's painfully obvious that I'm really not good at dealing with comments in that style.

Of course I was partly teasing. Your game is not in the hentai section. But I was serious about the bit concerning

Jo'ogn wrote:

But your characters tend a bit too much to be "Gut-Menschen". They are too ethical correct

Admittedly I do:
- have a love for abrupt or at least very quick endings with little explained (however, not ambiguous ones)
- I dislike deaths, and
- if the game needs it, I like to show people with weaknesses rather than with bad traits or immorality / unethical behavior.

It's been my way for this long and I suppose it's not going to change a lot. I know that many people like "realistic" characters or stories, but I'd consider myself more in the "idealistic" direction, if this must be classified. That said, I really dislike self-judgment, so...

But well, that's how I do things, and I also tried to look at what it would be like to write otherwise (like a dramatic piece about let's say if someone betrayed their loved one), but it just never felt right and I didn't want to write about that. Every now and then I think about this, but until now I've always felt that some things are just not for me - I do like to play many things I would never write myself, though. But that's something entirely different.

I quite enjoyed this game, the overall story was good (even if the ending felt a little hokey). Some of the dialogue could do with a little polish (a couple of minor grammar errors, a couple of sentences didn't really flow all that well) but overall it was good.

I just wish we had more of that amazing character art!

First of all I have to say I found the concept of the game really interesting and original. Airships are always somehow romantic! I was also surprised to see how well Ren's (congratulations on your first VN!) and cloud's graphics fit together... myself I'm always a bit (too) skeptical about two different artists doing the art, but I guess Heiress II killed a bit of my bias.

I, like many other people in the thread, preferred the bad ending to the good one. The better ending was just... a bit too sugary, a bit too easy, I guess. Then again I've never liked Altogether this was a nice experience with really good writing and illustrations. It's really admirable how touching it was in the end, taking to account how little time there was to develop the bonds between the characters and the player... All in all, good job and congratulations for making it in time!

Thank you for the responses, I'm happy you liked the game!

Hime wrote:I was also surprised to see how well Ren's (congratulations on your first VN!) and cloud's graphics fit together... myself I'm always a bit (too) skeptical about two different artists doing the art, but I guess Heiress II killed a bit of my bias.

I only have praise for them, and of course I feel a bit smug for having such a lucky hand in going for that combination. But the reason it all worked was in my opinion also due to many other circumstances, as it is often the case. And I can only really just thank them again.

Hime wrote:The better ending was just... a bit too sugary, a bit too easy, I guess.

One thing to note, however, just so it's explained: While the bad ending is the true one for the story and (so it seems) people seem to accept it more, I have to say that I personally don't find the good ending unrealistic or useless - regardless of how predictable, regardless of how sugary it comes across (or even is).

The very simple reason is that I have to be honest - my own love life is so sugary and cliched, anyone would dismiss it as "too cliched" and "not realistic". The good ending with all the fluffy things and iloveyous where everything turns out great, I have that as a reality, and even though I may feel that it's not "typical", especially when I look around at friends and colleagues, I don't see it as unrealistic.

Sometimes I have the feeling that people want "realistic" things to happen in their plot lines, but these are in reality "most common" things or "most easily believable", or generally those they can most easily relate to. So a happy ending may not be typical ending for a situation like this, but I don't think it's fundamentally wrong. I guess often movies will have the happy ending so that it doesn't upset the potentially large audience in the cinemas or so that it spreads a positive message, but if I have such a happy ending, it's really more for personal reasons.

And then there is the matter of deaths. I suppose for everyone, and for me as well, death of a loved one is the biggest fear of them all. But I'm not superstitious at all when I don't like to "kill" characters - I simply don't really enjoy letting characters die or write about the consequences of death, so if there is something like that involved, I try to make at least one alternative where they don't die - consider this an ending "for me", if you like. There are a few games that I made which fit into this, and usually it's for the same reason:

The reason is that I believe that if there is a good ending, it can give purpose to the bad ending, if one looks at it a certain way. In real-life situation, you are often saddened by death when you know or feel or have hoped that something could still have been done or happened (this is especially true for tragic accidents or diseases) and if you were given the option of having your situation fixed, you probably wouldn't care if it would look cliched as a film script if it brings back your loved one, you'd probably be infinitely thankful - and the good ending is that hopeful alternative for me.

I can still understand that this can evoke the "happy ending at all costs" kind of ending that you can see in a typical mainstream film. Often people are so overexposed to sweet endings, that they become boring and predictable to them - but still, I wouldn't want to change Heiress II just to avoid this criticism. That ending has its reasons, and the game wouldn't be what it is without it. And I've written some posts before in a more general way that this may be the idealistic, rather than realistic approach, but this is really me, this is how I write and this style is what makes that game feel to me like it's an honest effort from my side.

Hmm... this look at your inner-workings is very interesting and I really like the way you approach things ^^

About the VN itself: nice! On the "technical" side, bravo to the artists and I was impressed at how little art there is in the end but how it all fits together. Cen was stunning <3

O.o

Two in a row!
I haven't even finished the first one due to classes...

I'm sorry!! >.<

That was... amazing. o.o
The ending though, full 360 in an awesome way. I do wish there was an epilogue like in most of your stories Mikey!

But man, this just jumped right to number 3 on my top ren'ai lists. I think you know the other two

Amazing game Mikey. I know I just said it, but it is through these games I can see a kinder world. (Cheesy isn't it? )

monele, Ayato Vu >> thanks for the comments on the longer epilogue - read and understood. And I'm really happy you liked it (yay for monele's cliche-but-not-really experience!

monele wrote:On the "technical" side, bravo to the artists and I was impressed at how little art there is in the end but how it all fits together.

Well, it was less than 7 days to go, so we couldn't do anything spectacular - Nevertheless, I enjoyed my self-imposed limit of 3 BGs and 1 sprite, that had an effect on a lot of the script. Indeed the first thing I did was send 3 sketches to lordcloudx, and I was effectively constrained then - but in a good sense. And we finished so close to the deadline, that amount was really just perfect.

Ayato Vo wrote:I know I just said it, but it is through these games I can see a kinder world.

Thank you for those wonderful comments. And I'm glad that you like the positive/idealist approach. It's really encouraging for me, especially for the future.

Scout wrote:Uh... Mikey? Why did you make a game in Ren'Py but then not actually upload cross-platform versions?

Here, usul, and any other Linux/Mac users who can't open the EXE installer:

arigato! will play!

lol i am the number 1337 veiwer

A surprisingly deep game ()... Cen's story (and her unwillingness to worry everyone else) really drew me in. I was sort of meh about the "good ending", but I'm glad to hear you thought the "bad ending" was the true one.

I just decided to play this since it was short and I wanted a quick burst. Been meaning to check it out after I saw a thread going through random Ren'py games, and they said it got interesting.

mikey, I found your comments about endings very interesting. It is interesting how people consider the "bad" ending the more realistic one. I think it's because bad things seem to happen more often in real life, and really, they do. But that seems to make it all the more reasonable we would want positive fiction as well as negative fiction. I think Hollywood has soured people to the "good end" but in a sense there's nothing wrong with it, and culturally we tend not to write engaging "Bad ends". Plus if you watch anime or read VNs you start to get really sick of the "Bittersweet end" or Gainax end.

It's kind of an interesting thing to talk about, as a lot of people seem to almost have a fetish for bad ends. I think a lot of people believe it's more artistic or mature, when it's not inherently so at all.

I think a lot of the time you're forced to choose between bad, bittersweet, and good. Once you're introduced to the seedy, awful underbelly of the world, you have to accept someone's going to die. This isn't going to end well for most of the character. I mean look at that druggie shooting up, man. His life sucks.

I like the idea of accepting all that misery and despair and saying "Fuck that shit, we don't have to give in to that". If anything, this theme fits the VN quite well - . This is one reason why I actually LIKED Higurashi's end on one level whereas most others hated it, because they didn't get what it was trying to do.

And yeah, it's a real shame the endings were so abrupt. When you sit through a game even for an hour you kind of want some kind of reward for it. You're sort of progressing towards the end for a reason.

IMO I don't think it's unreasonable that people can fall in love that quickly. It may have been all in one day but they spent a lot of time together closely chatting, etc. Love isn't so well defined as to have a minimum time limit.

It think it would be a cool game to come back to some day, do an expanded version, or even a follow on story.

I found that one question kind of funny, the honest opinion about her. It's interesting because two of the things I find myself actively attracted to are chubby/curvy women, and awesome hair. It was like chosing between my two fetishes. But it didn't result in anything. Should have been an ending where she got bigger, or did something to her hair. Or teases you for your answer later on.