[The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

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Taleweaver
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#151 Post by Taleweaver »

Nuxill wrote:I haven't gotten ending six yet but I'm going to keep trying a bit longer until I ask for a walkthrough. ;)
There's a walkthrough somewhere in this thread. Just look if you need one :)
I have no idea if you're still taking critiques since this is an older version
I always take critiques, especially since I'm rather satisfied with the final result.

If a few things in the game look or sound like stock art or SFX, that's because they are. It's the best I could find on my own. Bear with me, please :) The "new version" will be an entirely different experience with all-original art, music and sound. I exceptionally like the new team's take on the White Lady. You'd like it too.
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#152 Post by Nuxill »

Taleweaver wrote:
Nuxill wrote:I haven't gotten ending six yet but I'm going to keep trying a bit longer until I ask for a walkthrough. ;)
There's a walkthrough somewhere in this thread. Just look if you need one :)
I have no idea if you're still taking critiques since this is an older version
I always take critiques, especially since I'm rather satisfied with the final result.

If a few things in the game look or sound like stock art or SFX, that's because they are. It's the best I could find on my own. Bear with me, please :) The "new version" will be an entirely different experience with all-original art, music and sound. I exceptionally like the new team's take on the White Lady. You'd like it too.
Yeah, I figured it was stock. I'm eagerly awaiting the all new content though! When it comes out I'm definitely going to introduce a few of my horror vn-loving friends to the game and I'm sure they'll like it as well. I'd show it to them now but I'm not sure how they'd react to the unifinished-ness of it.

I'm a little wary of searching through spoilers since I've already half spoiled the ending for myself, but if I do get stuck I'll check through the thread.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#153 Post by Taleweaver »

Nuxill wrote:I'm a little wary of searching through spoilers since I've already half spoiled the ending for myself, but if I do get stuck I'll check through the thread.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 0&start=97
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#154 Post by Nuxill »

Taleweaver wrote:
Nuxill wrote:I'm a little wary of searching through spoilers since I've already half spoiled the ending for myself, but if I do get stuck I'll check through the thread.
http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 0&start=97
Thank you for that. I just finished the true ending and the extras. Started tearing up during the epilouge a bit too. It's amazing that this game has been in development for so long and I hadn't even decided to look at it until today.
also if that picture you posted is a glimpse at the new graphics then I am SO. EXCITED. I love the new look! \o/

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#155 Post by blitzysixx »

Well, after playing the game for hours and reading through most of the pages in this thread I guess I can only say that you have developed a good game here. The artwork and music were great. I enjoyed the setting and plot, and felt drawn in from the start, never becoming bored. I only got frustrated when I failed numerous time to get the true ending. I never would have gotten it if I hadn't found the walkthrough in this thread.

I was playing again and again changing choices that I thought were the ones causing the problem but was never getting any new information because I was choosing the wrong answers from the start.
I never had him draw himself because I thought it would be pointless as a diagnostic tool, so I never got the information that would have led me to think medication would help him, so I never prescribed medication. It's my personal belief that medication is not always the answer and if it's going to be prescribed you should have a strong knowledge of the person's symptoms and a definite belief that medication would help them.
So I ended up stuck in a loop. I could get all the endings except 6, even though I had figured out what was going on even with what little information I had obtained without meeting actually anyone that could help me.

I think this is one the cases where you as a developer/author thought that each player would see/interpret the information exactly as you did or make the choices that you would without accounting for different viewpoints, thus making a lot of extra work for a lot of people. Now, the fact that you made a game compelling enough to get us to do that work to the point of exhaustion is only proof that you are quite a skilled storyteller and your characters were very likable.

Some people have said that the style didn't fit the game, and I think that worked for you rather than against you because when things started to change and crazy things began to happen I was literally afraid. That takes a lot to accomplish. The happy sunny artwork just lulled me into a false sense of security and then when things went haywire it was like a slap to the face. Awesome. I do see what you mean in comparing it to Higrashi, though when I watched that Anime there was still something inherently dark in it that made me expect sinister happenings, so though this is an attempt to be in the same vein, I can't say it's the same device or has the same effect. But the effect it did have was very effective.

As far as Julius, even for this type of medium where characters appear much more youthful than they are, his drawing appeared to be one of a child. I get that he was meant to be youthful and innocent but he looked about 12 years old, so it was hard for me to imagine this supposed romantic feeling from her to him, because he looked like a grade schooler.
It was also hard for me to imagine him as a 27-year-old who wields considerable authority in a professional job.
Overall the game is very high quality, original, and addicting. I just wish the path to the true ending was more accessible.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#156 Post by Taleweaver »

blitzysixx wrote:I think this is one the cases where you as a developer/author thought that each player would see/interpret the information exactly as you did or make the choices that you would without accounting for different viewpoints, thus making a lot of extra work for a lot of people.
You're mistaken. I wanted this game to be hard, even frustratingly hard. I believe that horror games should never be easy. I put in ending 5 for the people who want an easier yet still satisfying ending, but ending 6 is for those who are able and willing to fight through countless deaths and repeated Ending 4s. Sue me. :)
Some people have said that the style didn't fit the game, and I think that worked for you rather than against you because when things started to change and crazy things began to happen I was literally afraid. That takes a lot to accomplish. The happy sunny artwork just lulled me into a false sense of security and then when things went haywire it was like a slap to the face. Awesome. I do see what you mean in comparing it to Higrashi, though when I watched that Anime there was still something inherently dark in it that made me expect sinister happenings, so though this is an attempt to be in the same vein, I can't say it's the same device or has the same effect. But the effect it did have was very effective.
It's less Higurashi anime and more Higurashi sound novel. If you want to compare it to an anime, it's more like Shadow Star/Narutaru. And it's not just the art. I personally think the music is absolutely wonderful (some still can't believe it wasn't written for this game), and the strongest technique I use is shrouding the art from the player, taking away a clear view at things. I still hope that the writing helps too :)
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Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
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"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#157 Post by blitzysixx »

Taleweaver wrote:
blitzysixx wrote:I think this is one the cases where you as a developer/author thought that each player would see/interpret the information exactly as you did or make the choices that you would without accounting for different viewpoints, thus making a lot of extra work for a lot of people.
You're mistaken. I wanted this game to be hard, even frustratingly hard. I believe that horror games should never be easy. I put in ending 5 for the people who want an easier yet still satisfying ending, but ending 6 is for those who are able and willing to fight through countless deaths and repeated Ending 4s. Sue me. :)
After the frustration you put me through at 4:00 AM still trying to figure out what to say to the white lady, don't tempt me. Where is the "Sue Creator" button? :lol:

Okay, so you didn't lack the ability to get outside of your creation, you simply think it's cool to torture players into all hours of the night. Fair enough.

I understand the concept of working hard for something, but I think that's only desirable when there's a payoff that will leave you feeling accomplished. Not just confirmation of what you'd really hoped wouldn't be the answer after all - one of the most overused horror tropes in existence.

But much like I sometimes do when I receive mixed feedback on the stories I write, you seem to be only focusing on the negative parts of my review of your game. There is plenty of positive in there. I never give just negative feedback to anyone - even if their work was a complete pile of crap, which yours is most definitely not. It's still an epic win. Like I said, it's hard to get me to pay attention to anything for extended periods of time and even harder to scare me. It's even harder to get me to write a lengthy review. Glowing review is difficult to get from me, but even harder is lengthy review. Honestly, most people don't put enough work into anything to give me anything to talk about, especially for this long. It's also valid from a psychiatric standpoint and I enjoyed the aboriginal dreaming reference. I recognize your efforts. I hope you feel a great sense of achievement.

I hope you also understand that I'm not telling you this to attack your game or devalue your hard work, or anything like that. I'm just simply letting you know that it exceeded my frustration limit. Looking over this thread I obviously wasn't the only person that felt this way. Some people tolerated the frustration better than I did, some people tolerated it worse. It doesn't matter if you keep saying 'I think it's cool to frustrate people! I want players that want to work hard!' People are going to decide for themselves whether it's cool or not, and none of us can pick the consumers of our work. We get Joe Public, not handpicked ultra savvy hardworking people who are always intelligent and willing to pick up what we're laying down - even when we're laying it down in the bushes under a rock.

What you're going to get when you make games is a random group of players who want to be entertained, and if they do want to work hard to be entertained, they still want to feel that they're playing by fair rules and receiving a significant payoff. If you want to challenge this, that's your right, but you're probably going to receive at least a little backlash. If you don't mind backlash, fine. But if you really didn't mind, you wouldn't have read my review and only replied to the things I said that you didn't agree with. You would have probably said "Well I'm glad you liked it overall," and rolled on.

The thing I most fear when I write a story is not that someone will not like it or will complain about it, but that they won't even tell me why they don't like it or won't tell me what they expected instead. Just saying something like "that was stupid, you could have done better" or something similar. That's the kind of feedback that is completely useless. I have tried to give you feedback that I feel will be useful in some way for future game-making endeavors. Only you can decide if it's useful. Sometimes I think certain feedback I get isn't useful and I reject it, only to keep thinking about it for a looooong time and eventually seeing that it does have some use, even if only a little. I hope this will be a case like that.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#158 Post by Taleweaver »

blitzysixx wrote:I hope you also understand that I'm not telling you this to attack your game or devalue your hard work, or anything like that. I'm just simply letting you know that it exceeded my frustration limit. Looking over this thread I obviously wasn't the only person that felt this way.
And you have every right to feel this way. I broke many of my own rules about game-making when I wrote "The Dreaming". One of them was "always be fair to the player". If there's one thing I personally hate in a VN, it's an opaque choice - one that doesn't give you any chance of knowing what will come out of it yet it significantly influences the outcome of the game. (Worst example: "Do you sweep the floor or mop the floor?" Result: increased chances of getting girl A if sweeping, increased chances of getting girl B if mopping.) In "The Dreaming", I do this all the time.
But if you really didn't mind, you wouldn't have read my review and only replied to the things I said that you didn't agree with. You would have probably said "Well I'm glad you liked it overall," and rolled on.
Sorry if you felt my comment to your reviews as a rebuttal; it wasn't meant like this. It was meant as an explanation of my intentions. I probably forgot to thank you for giving me what was indeed a helpful look at my work, and I'd like to do this now. Thank you.
The thing I most fear when I write a story is not that someone will not like it or will complain about it, but that they won't even tell me why they don't like it or won't tell me what they expected instead. Just saying something like "that was stupid, you could have done better" or something similar. That's the kind of feedback that is completely useless. I have tried to give you feedback that I feel will be useful in some way for future game-making endeavors. Only you can decide if it's useful. Sometimes I think certain feedback I get isn't useful and I reject it, only to keep thinking about it for a looooong time and eventually seeing that it does have some use, even if only a little. I hope this will be a case like that.
Absolutely. Don't worry; had I thought your comment wasn't helpful at all, I wouldn't have answered.

Now all you other people whose comments I haven't answered... aaagh, no, I didn't mean to say your contributions weren't useful >.<
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#159 Post by IefaSan »

First of all, thanks for making me scared after playing this game... XD

For me, it is really good and somehow this game sucks my soul and energy.. Hahaha.. Well, I haven't got all endings yet but I planned too.. Just want you to know that I almost scared of my own reflection after playing your game.. Now I think I should see a shrink.. XD

Well done!

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#160 Post by Taleweaver »

IefaSan wrote:Just want you to know that I almost scared of my own reflection after playing your game.
It gets less scary after a while :)
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#161 Post by ShojiAmasawa »

I have decided that this game would be an amazing BBC mini-series! I love the story though I have only played it once and got a bad ending. I would love to see more projects like this from others as well. Keep up the good work! But I am serious. You should contact the BBC even if nothing would come of it.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#162 Post by Taleweaver »

ShojiAmasawa wrote:I have decided that this game would be an amazing BBC mini-series! I love the story though I have only played it once and got a bad ending. I would love to see more projects like this from others as well. Keep up the good work! But I am serious. You should contact the BBC even if nothing would come of it.
Isn't the entire setting too American for that? Besides, the entire work is Creative Commons, so the BBC cannot produce anything out of it without making that Creative Commons too.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
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Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
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Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
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"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#163 Post by michi 18 »

uhm what kind of game is thisotme,mystery,gxb?or any other?
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#164 Post by Taleweaver »

michi 18 wrote:uhm what kind of game is thisotme,mystery,gxb?or any other?
Just looking at the setup, the game is otome (you play as a female doctor), mystery (what's up with Julius?) and GXB (there's a "Together Ending"). However, it's mostly a psychological horror story, and it gets pretty intense, so that overshadows the other elements quite a bit.
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#165 Post by michi 18 »

ok tnks.
Projects: (I hope you'll support them ) Wisdom Revivalhttp://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 16&t=16488 and Universal Hope (Uni-H)http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 43&t=16452.

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