[The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

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Anna
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#166 Post by Anna » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:39 pm

I'm playing this now and I will give my full thoughts later, but I have some things which bother me a bit after reaching one of the endings and wanted to know your thoughts behind them. the ending was
the one where she goes insane/sees the illusions herself.
So here we go:
The first question which popped into my mind after reading Julius' files was "Why isn't the first diagnosis she considers schizophrenia, isn't it completely obvious from her point of view?". It was mentioned that she wrote a paper on the subject, she must be a good psychology/medical degree student as she was offered work right away, and all the signs the patient shows are pointing towards this. Yet it remains out of her thoughts, even when the diagnosis he received before was rather bare bones. I hardly call "unclassified multisensory hallucinations, not drug-induced" a good diagnosis from her fellow psychiatrists.

She also has his files, in which basically all the essential information is written, and later on she tells him "Two weeks in which I will try to diagnose your condition to the best of my abilities.", which is why I'm puzzled that she doesn't even consider it once.

Then suddenly the whole diagnosis part gets thrown out the window, because a few sentences later she already considers giving him an antidepressant aside from his other medication and dives into finding the right treatment.

What happened to the importance of her diagnosis? Does this mean she already realizes what his condition is, just didn't mention it? And how did she conclude from just one thing he says before the first choice, that it may be good to give him more medicine ;_;? Maybe this just bothers me because I study some related subjects, but this seems like such irresponsible and strange behaviour to me, especially from professionals.
Perhaps some things were conveniently not mentioned or forgotten by her to make it more of a challenge to the reader? Then I would understand, but it just felt strange when considering her profession.
Taleweaver wrote: If there's one thing I personally hate in a VN, it's an opaque choice - one that doesn't give you any chance of knowing what will come out of it yet it significantly influences the outcome of the game. (Worst example: "Do you sweep the floor or mop the floor?" Result: increased chances of getting girl A if sweeping, increased chances of getting girl B if mopping.) In "The Dreaming", I do this all the time.
Can I ask why? I'm honestly curious, since if you just wanted to increase difficulty it could have been done in better ways.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#167 Post by Taleweaver » Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:56 pm

Anna wrote:I'm playing this now and I will give my full thoughts later, but I have some things which bother me a bit after reaching one of the endings and wanted to know your thoughts behind them. the ending was
the one where she goes insane/sees the illusions herself.
So here we go:
*snip*

The reason why I didn't go into the psychiatric details any further is because I didn't want to make this game look like a "medical examiner simulation". I wanted to concentrate on the chemistry between Gabrielle and Julius in the first part of the game, and in the later part on the experience of the Dreaming, not the medical explanation.

Aside from that, Julius's symptoms are atypical for schizophrenia in quite a few respects: First of all, Julius is aware that he has a mental condition, which is rather unusual (you may have heard the sentence "if you think you're insane, that's a good sign you're not"). Secondly, most schizophrenics also show social disorders and react abnormally to other people whereas Julius remains a charming and rather witty individual.

The reason why Gabrielle has a very early opportunity to give Julius medication is because giving out medication is one of the few things she's authorized to do (she complains about that fact not long before the opportunity arises). Of course she hasn't fully diagnosed the problem yet, but she doesn't consider that her only job - she also wants to help her patient as quickly as possible (what doctor doesn't want to?), which is why she does things she wasn't told to do.

And once you find out more about Gabrielle in the True Ending, many things will start to make sense :)
Can I ask why? I'm honestly curious, since if you just wanted to increase difficulty it could have been done in better ways.
Sure you can: I was a little lazy, too lazy to try out something more complicated at once, so I did it this way just to see what it did to the game's mood. I actually liked the effect it had on the story flow (horror stories sometimes require to keep the audience guessing), so I kept it.

Wouldn't do that again, though. Too many complaints in hindsight. You weren't the only one.
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#168 Post by Anna » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Taleweaver wrote:*snip*

The reason why I didn't go into the psychiatric details any further is because I didn't want to make this game look like a "medical examiner simulation". I wanted to concentrate on the chemistry between Gabrielle and Julius in the first part of the game, and in the later part on the experience of the Dreaming, not the medical explanation.
I understood the point wasn't the medical aspects, but her reasoning and actions felt off considering her profession.
Taleweaver wrote:Aside from that, Julius's symptoms are atypical for schizophrenia in quite a few respects: First of all, Julius is aware that he has a mental condition, which is rather unusual (you may have heard the sentence "if you think you're insane, that's a good sign you're not"). Secondly, most schizophrenics also show social disorders and react abnormally to other people whereas Julius remains a charming and rather witty individual.
Not every person with schizophrenia thinks what they experience is normal, especially if symptoms appear later on in life and nonsensical things are happening or being said. As for the social disorder thing; true, but I wondered whether that was due to his personality or something.
Taleweaver wrote:The reason why Gabrielle has a very early opportunity to give Julius medication is because giving out medication is one of the few things she's authorized to do (she complains about that fact not long before the opportunity arises). Of course she hasn't fully diagnosed the problem yet, but she doesn't consider that her only job - she also wants to help her patient as quickly as possible (what doctor doesn't want to?), which is why she does things she wasn't told to do.
I remember her supervisor asked her to write a report on him or something, including the diagnosis and such. I know she mentioned she couldn't do much, but immediately thinking of antidepressants just felt very off to me. She hadn't even mentioned what she thought about his mental condition or state, while most times a diagnosis comes before treatment; A doctor doesn't give you cold medicine before understanding you have a cold.
Taleweaver wrote: And once you find out more about Gabrielle in the True Ending, many things will start to make sense :)
Working on it now, it's already getting a lot more interesting now that Dr. Marshall showed up :').
Taleweaver wrote:Sure you can: I was a little lazy, too lazy to try out something more complicated at once, so I did it this way just to see what it did to the game's mood. I actually liked the effect it had on the story flow (horror stories sometimes require to keep the audience guessing), so I kept it.
Ahh, I see. Well, experimentation is never a bad thing.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#169 Post by Taleweaver » Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Anna wrote:A doctor doesn't give you cold medicine before understanding you have a cold.
If you come to the doctor with a sore throat and the doctor isn't sure whether you have a bacterial infection or a viral one and will need to send your blood sample to a lab to make a test that will take until tomorrow, expect him to send you home with at least a few painkillers. He may not know what exactly you have, but at least he can do something to offer you relief.

That's pretty much the point with Gabrielle - she's not certain what exactly Julius is suffering from, but her initial thought is that some medication may offer him relief until she has put up a full diagnosis. (Note, by the way, the results of giving Julius medication without diagnosing him further. That should give you a pretty good view of what I think about her choice.)

Also, while you're at it, you may want to try Anstalt, which is a game that takes the entire psychiatric process much more seriously than I do. And in that game, you're the therapist for abused cuddly toys...
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#170 Post by Sochie » Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:08 pm

may i get help with the endings? Q__Q

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#171 Post by Anna » Sat Jun 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Finished it! Damn, Taleweaver. I feel so trolled now, in a very... pleasant way :'). I take back the things I said before, as none of it still matters. I really enjoyed the true ending, it was a nice and cool surprise.

The only complaint I have left is that the timed options were hell because you didn't know they were timed until it was too late haha.
Sochie wrote:may i get help with the endings? Q__Q
I used the first post here to get the true ending: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 0&start=97

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#172 Post by InitialeMpTy » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:33 pm

This game scared me D:. Especially that scream . I couldn't stop playing though, so I ended up playing without my earphones. Nice atmosphere you put on the game, I don't think I will be getting any sleep.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#173 Post by Malioboro » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:05 am

very fun game i want see gabriel and julia kiss... ^.^

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#174 Post by Hijiri » Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:49 am

Malioboro wrote:very fun game i want see gabriel and julia kiss... ^.^
Don't read the following spoiler if you haven't gotten the true end.
How can he kiss a figment of his imagination?
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#175 Post by Taleweaver » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:18 am

Malioboro wrote:very fun game i want see gabriel and julia kiss... ^.^
This would require both of them to change sex beforehand so that Gabrielle becomes Gabriel and Julius becomes Julia. And this isn't really the right kind of game for this *drop*

@Hijiri:
Of course it's possible to kiss a figment of your imagination! I mean, a kiss is all about the feeling, isn't it?
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#176 Post by cuttlefish » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:35 am

So I was able to get endings 4, 2, 3, 1 (in that order), and 6 (from posted walkthrough).

Before I give my take on the whole game, could I be given some hints to point me towards ending 5? I think it was alluded to in another post
"Together Ending" and avoiding a certain option with the white woman
but I'm having a hard time imagining how I would get there.

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#177 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:31 am

cuttlefish wrote:So I was able to get endings 4, 2, 3, 1 (in that order), and 6 (from posted walkthrough).

Before I give my take on the whole game, could I be given some hints to point me towards ending 5? I think it was alluded to in another post
"Together Ending" and avoiding a certain option with the white woman
but I'm having a hard time imagining how I would get there.
Simple: Begin the game with a session of psychoanalysis and don't change anything else.
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#178 Post by cuttlefish » Wed Jul 11, 2012 6:22 am

Taleweaver wrote: Simple: Begin the game with a session of psychoanalysis and don't change anything else.
I assume "don't change anything else" refers to steps for the true ending? I've tried
completing a psychoanalysis session after having Julius draw, talk about his past, or after Gabrielle suggesting medication. I then followed the true ending choices, but have only gotten ending 4.
Am I approaching this wrong?

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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#179 Post by Taleweaver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:27 am

cuttlefish wrote:Am I approaching this wrong?
Yes.
Don't let Julius draw. Start with a conversation, then psychoanalysis.
If this isn't working, a few more hints:

- Use choices reflecting that Gabrielle is relating to Julius. Believe him, make it clear you're affectionate to him, and if you run into trouble with the White Woman, don't say anything when talking to her.
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Re: [The Dreaming] v0.9 (Win/Mac/Linux)

#180 Post by Victoria Jennings » Thu Jul 12, 2012 1:01 am

Oh my gosh.

Oh my GOSH.

I was tired of clicking through all the damn messages, so I started skipping...

...and skipped all the way through Ending 6. NICE. *sobs, then replays*

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