The Stolen Diamond Ring - a mystery visual novel

[Mirage]

Personally? Whichever one had better reviews from people I trusted.

Or both, depending on what they were asking for them.

Lol, there are people out there who buy without reading reviews. Some people out there buy because of certain names, some buy because of lovely arts, some buy because of attractive genre. If we get 100 people on street, how many would prefer a stolen diamond ring case over a murder? (Of course I don't have real statistic to prove whatsoever, but really why else there are more murder case out there than any other case?)

Not entirely true - I mean, for example:

If Walter or Katherine had been the culprit, for example, Mia would have had to face up to the spiteful jealousy or thoughtless self-interest of someone she thought was a real friend - she'd never be able to consider that relationship the same way again. If Matt or Magdelen had stolen it, they'd at the very least have lost their jobs, probably also spent some time in prison... Magdelen's ambition would have been curtailed, or nobody would have been taking care of Matt's mother. Even in the case of this game, where the culprit wasn't directly related to any of the other characters, a strain was placed on Mia and Richard's engagement because of the differing ways that they reacted to the theft.

You know all of that can still be saved/recovered. Broken relationship doesn't mean it will last forever. It maybe like that in some stories, but you know we readers can imagine what happen after the story end. BUT if you kill a character, unless you have some ridiculous plot device to revive the character, there is no way to save them.

Sex and violence sell, but so do really well-written stories; sex and violence are easier to peddle, but they're also generally shallower.

Lol, we aren't talking about writing skill, are we? We are debating about the genre, right? So by that standard, if you get the same writer to write 2 cases, one is a murder and the other is not, WHICH do you think will SELL?

Hmm...murder is okay. But if it happens all the time, doesn't it get boring?

I love mysteries. I've read/watched loads of mysteries from both sides of the Pacific. One thing I've noticed about many is that people die. A lot. In Detective Conan, people drop dead left and right; you'd think the kid was cursed or something. It's sorta come to the stage where when a new set of characters shows up, half the fun is guessing which one is going to be dead in two minutes. But at the same time, it's a little boring to always see dead people popping up everywhere. Plus. some of the reasons for murder are so flimsy. I might be angry at someone for doing terrible things to me (stealing a boyfriend, stealing money, etc.) but there aren't many things that would make me reasonably think that murder is a good solution. I might do terrible, vengeful things, but definitely not murder.

Considering that I have all 60+ volumes of Conan, watched 140+ episode of Kindaichi, I can safely tell you--- yes, it does get get boring. I actually appreciate some of the case unrelated to murder in Conan. But, let's not talk about an awfully long series like those examples. I am asking if you start a series, you have no name nor fans, you would like to sell commercially, do you think a mystery without any form of murder will appeal to people?

[sake-bento]

Hmm...murder is okay. But if it happens all the time, doesn't it get boring?

I love mysteries. I've read/watched loads of mysteries from both sides of the Pacific. One thing I've noticed about many is that people die. A lot. In Detective Conan, people drop dead left and right; you'd think the kid was cursed or something. It's sorta come to the stage where when a new set of characters shows up, half the fun is guessing which one is going to be dead in two minutes. But at the same time, it's a little boring to always see dead people popping up everywhere. Plus. some of the reasons for murder are so flimsy. I might be angry at someone for doing terrible things to me (stealing a boyfriend, stealing money, etc.) but there aren't many things that would make me reasonably think that murder is a good solution. I might do terrible, vengeful things, but definitely not murder.

Considering that I have all 60+ volumes of Conan, watched 140+ episode of Kindaichi, I can safely tell you--- yes, it does get get boring. I actually appreciate some of the case unrelated to murder in Conan. But, let's not talk about an awfully long series like those examples. I am asking if you start a series, you have no name nor fans, you would like to sell commercially, do you think a mystery without any form of murder will appeal to people?

I don't know if you've ever seen "Without a Trace," but that one had a lot of good mysteries without anyone dying. I got hooked from the first episode, even without murders.

Many Sherlock Holmes mysteries don't involve murder, including my personal favorite, "A Scandal in Bohemia." Also, Poe's "The Purloined Letter," is murder-less and quite good. Naturally, both Holmes and Dupin also dealt with murder, but I think those stories were also interesting and compelling. Murder is definitely a good way to hook someone, but plenty of other mysteries can be just as interesting.

[Mirage]

I don't know if you've ever seen "Without a Trace," but that one had a lot of good mysteries without anyone dying. I got hooked from the first episode, even without murders.

Many Sherlock Holmes mysteries don't involve murder, including my personal favorite, "A Scandal in Bohemia." Also, Poe's "The Purloined Letter," is murder-less and quite good. Naturally, both Holmes and Dupin also dealt with murder, but I think those stories were also interesting and compelling. Murder is definitely a good way to hook someone, but plenty of other mysteries can be just as interesting.

I think you missed my point completely. I am not arguing that death will make mystery better. I have mentioned that some of my favorite cases in Conan is NOT a murder case. But that is not my point.

I think you are forgetting that I am looking at the perspective of someone who just started on selling things commercially. You just can't compare to big names like that, where people will watch/read because they are well-known or shown on TV.

My point is, will it worth the risk to create game commercially using a genre that is not main stream? And don't forget that VN is already a niche market. If within this niche market, you used an even more obscure genre, will it even earn money?

[sake-bento]

Well, I think your point is that including a murder will make people more likely to buy something, all other things held equal.

My point is just that murder doesn't necessarily make a story more interesting or compelling and I think people looking for a mystery aren't going to be more likely to go after murder over all other mysterious things.

Hidden treasures, missing persons, stolen valuables, and other things can be equally interesting. I think people are more likely to buy something based on the perceived quality of the product (the quality of the graphics or the sample writing) rather than the knowledge of whether or not there's a murder involved. I guess, for me personally, I'm much more likely to decide whether I want to play a game or read a book or watch a show based on how interesting the characters look (like Monk or Psych) or how pretty the art is, or how well-written the first few pages are.

[LVUER]

Agree, murder case is not a guarantee that a story will be more interesting or compelling than a non-murder case. But like just as Mirage said, it will catch more attention.

Let's say we have a trailer for mystery game here.
1. You are an ace detective, suddenly facing the greatest challenge of your life! Lots of necklace have been missing from jewel store in three straight weeks, and no one know even a clue where they're all going? Is it a jewel-snatching ghost? Or is it a legendary thief, Phantom-Man? This is going to be the greatest duel in this century!

OR

2. You are an ace detective, suddenly facing the greatest challenge of your life! The busy street once again shocked by another discovery of headless corpse of a young woman. This is the sixth one this week. Who is the murder? You must unravel the case!
Now, which one sounds more interesting?

Oh, and remember that not everyone is that good to write a non-murder case that as interesting as the murder one. And I haven't read all those story you mentioned, but... have you compared stories from the same writer? Murder cases and non-one? I mean if the writer is the same, which is his more interesting/better selling story, the murder cases or non-murder ones?

[sake-bento]

I guess for me, if everything else is equal (same writer, same art, same actors...) I find different types of mysteries equally interesting. In fact, the two descriptions you wrote were of equal writing quality, and both sound like something I would want to read. If the Phantom Thief turns out to be an intelligent rogue leading a double-life and taking the hero on a cat-and-mouse game across foggy London, I will be delighted. If the murderer turns out to be an escaped ape from the zoo with a shaving razor, I will be mildly disappointed (sorry Poe...).

I like all the Sherlock Holmes stories, even the ones without murder. My favorite of the Sherlock Holmes stories not only has no murder, it really has no threat of murder, either.

I think for me, murder isn't a more interesting hook because I know that many murder mysteries are very weak. The culprit doesn't have a strong enough motive (He wouldn't date you? Really, that's why you killed him?) and that makes the reveal a bit unsatisfying.

In the end, for me the thing that draws me to mysteries is the way that people unravel clues or how they match wits or out think the opponent. I guess people like mysteries for different reasons.

[Jake]

Now, which one sounds more interesting?

Personally? The one which doesn't involve excessive gratuitous violence.

Everyone understands why someone would want to steal jewellery; you can believe in such a criminal quite easily, so it's easier to get into the story. It's pretty hard for most normal, rational people to understand why you'd want to behead someone, let alone a string of people, so to make it a believable hook instead of obviously just a cheap shock tactic, you have to come up with something that hints that there might be a rational explanation behind it.

If your criminal is just a psychopath who happens to enjoy decapitating people, then it's not a fun mystery. It might make a good thriller, but you need more than that for it to be a decent mystery. Your six headless women catch my attention alright, but in completely the wrong way - they make me think "this writer is so bad at constructing a story, he has to resort to cheap shock tactics to catch my eye".



To answer Mirage's question from earlier, if one writer were to write a mystery without a murder and a mystery with a murder, it's not so simple to answer which one I think would sell more.

If the writer is a good writer, and both mysteries are equally well-written, I would expect them to sell about as well as each other. If the writer is a poor writer, and both mysteries are equally poorly-written, I would expect the one with the blood and guts to sell better. Why? Because sales generally don't go entirely on whether a story has element X in it, and word-of-mouth plays a significant part in it. But if people are buying crappy fiction, they're probably buying it for reasons other than to enjoy the story, so the cheap-thrills of a murder will actually make a difference to them.

[LVUER]

Of course the killer won't be an ape wielding a razor ^_^ I will not even touch a story like that...

About the motive, all the stories I've read this far always give good (and some of them are d@*n good, I even would kill for it) motive to do all those murders (minus those psychopath serial killers).

The basic motive is "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a life for a life" AKA Revenge. And there quite lots of variation that comes with it like:
- you kill my dad/mom/beloved ones, I kill you, or your entire family if I need to.
- someone kill my sister (incest), I don't know who did it so I'll just kill all possible suspects.

And along with time, there are lots basic motive risen. The most common one (after revenge) I read is "to protect someone you love". If you love someone too much, others life could be meaningless in front of you. Ironic, isn't it?

Like the culprit's daughter need an organ (heart) transplant so he is involved in organ trafficking. But a certain author know about this fact and decided to write a story about this. The author makes a game and anyone who could solve the puzzle will get the script. Of course the culprit play the game too, in order to get the script before anyone else. The game will make you talks with several people and eventually it will lead you to someone who have the script. To cover his track, he kill all those people, starting from the author. Actually, this is one of Kindaichi's cases. The motive behind this one is both protecting someone you love and to cover old crime. No revenge or a silly rejecting my love motive ^_^

There are some silly and plain motives, like "you reject my love, I kill you" or "you know I did last summer, I kill you". They're all could be boring. Not all murder case is interesting, I completely agree with that.

[papillon]

(While it's certainly not mine to mandate, we might want to fork the mystery/murder discussion off into the game making forum and not all as comments to this one particular title)

As far as high drama and emotional impact goes, I do feel that Without a Trace has a lot going for it over the murder mystery shows... the tension of knowing that the person MIGHT be found alive (and often is) is higher than just the result of someone already being dead.

With ongoing shows, murder investigations can become frustrating because there's so much death and so little emotional impact from it all. That's less of a problem in a single VN because you *can* take the time to let characters be upset, and if you're only doing one story you don't have to clock up a ridiculously high body count.

[p2oshandi]

I played the demo of tis game and liked it very much. At the moment I dont have money to buy it. Is there anyway to get it for free?

[rinrin]

Glad to hear you liked it, p2oshandi.
We might put it on one of those free-for-1-day sites some day, but it won't be anytime soon.
In the meantime, the game is priced at $6 and a few of those 50% off coupons are still unused (see the beginning of the thread), so you might get it for $3 if you hurry up!
On a related note, we also have some free games on our site: see http://www.nekomuragames.com/games/cute-rpg/index.html for two free RPGs.

[p2oshandi]

Hey rinrin ,
Thanks for telling, I should hurry up and try the coupons.. . Violet Princess looks like an interesting game. Anyway lot of thanks to you

[Nameraka]

Not sure what the policy on thread necromancy is here, but I didn't see anything in the announcements section, so here goes!

Just a heads-up that the codes are still working. I just plugged it in as a random shot after reading the thread, and the discount worked. [Insert massive guilt for using a coupon on a $6 game...]

EDIT: I just played through it. That was a fun game. I enjoyed the dialogue and questioning all the characters in the house about all the little intimate details of their personal lives, even if it wasn't particularly relevant.

The solution was pretty interesting. Before I questioned Mia for the last time, the inspector was actually the last person I would have suspected. When I got to the hallway, though, his insistence in getting out of the house with Alex was really odd, so I just accused him of taking the ring on a whim. Kekeke. That felt good.

The second time around, I accused someone else for kicks, and I was surprised to see that I was allowed to try again. I tried a couple of other games in this style that didn't let me do that; it was either get the right answer or lose the game. That was a pleasant discovery, though it was a bit painful to hear the characters tell me I was wrong.

I have one complaint about the extras, though. They don't seem to stick if I close the game. I have to reload my save and solve the mystery every time I want to visit the music room. Might be an engine quirk, but I'm not sure how Ren'Py usually handles things like this.