Gakuen Redux

Finished games are posted here, once they've been tested and are ready for wide release.
Forum rules
Adult content should not be posted in this forum.
Message
Author
User avatar
DaFool
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:39 pm
Contact:

#61 Post by DaFool »

Ignosco wrote:(and in general, for VN authors, if you are working with a composer/group for your VN). Are there some tracks that you give more guidance for than others?

(For example, do you describe the scene you want to music to represent, or the emotion, instrumentation, style etc, or do you give them the script to read etc etc)
sorry for butting in, but couldn't help but respond to this. I think ATP games may be the only instances where an original soundtrack was composed by someone out of the VN community (correct me if I'm wrong.). Basically, for all the other OELVNs that have original music, the composer is already familiar with VNs and knows the basics of what music is suitable for the medium. Usually a beta is available to play so that the composer can better gauge the pacing and emotions. In my case, I come up with the tunes I think will fit, then project director will indicate a preference for what style of music, then I just tweak the tunes to conform to that style, sometimes taking many iterations.

User avatar
mikey
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3249
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:03 am
itch: atpprojects
Contact:

#62 Post by mikey »

Ignosco wrote:With the soundtrack, how closely did you collaborate with EVO for it? ... Are there some tracks that you give more guidance for than others? ... (For example, do you describe the scene you want to music to represent, or the emotion, instrumentation, style etc, or do you give them the script to read etc etc)
Probably my advantage in this is that I was composing music myself (I just dropped out of it), so it's very uncomplicated for me to tell Evo/Renesis what I want and he will usually understand what I mean.

For GR, I made a selection of songs that he has already done, and then we sat down and tweaked them, replacing instruments, setting the tempo, adding this, removing that. I loved the mellow trancy atmosphere of those, and that's why I wanted them for the R-Type part of GR - which is basically a soundtrack within a soundtrack, to further separate that part from G- and F-Type.

For the two other parts, it was again music that was composed, that I liked the atmosphere of - and we then tailored it to fit. Some tracks were also specifically composed for GR, and of course, the last part of the story had a completely different approach to background sound, that was also done to fit as good as we could.

Generally though, it's the atmosphere I look for - then we try to make the instruments harmonize to give it a coherent feel (easiest way is to use the same instruments in all songs, but that can quickly feel cheapish). In GR, I wanted to use those trance tracks because it was going to be a lot of reading, and apart from a very few situations, I didn't really want the music to be situation-based, representing or underlining the various moods - the nature of trance music fits very well, at least with R-Type, I wanted to isolate the player, and the music to support the reading atmosphere. So we made it very soft and kind of "flowing". It's probably hard to explain, but the good thing is Evo knew what I meant and it came out juts like that.

So,... some tracks I leave for the musician to make, some I want to be there when they are created.

As for the other question, no Evo doesn't read the script, he isn't really into that. But it doesn't matter, since we understand each other very well and he will create the sound that I want - crucially, I can come over and we can sit over the notes and tweak the important parts of the songs. I guess as every musician he has an abstract feel for a certain mood and I really like the depth of the sound he creates for his songs.

So if anything, it's the abstract emotion that I talk to him about - usually I phone him and we talk - the instruments and script, or particular scenes are not realy described. Often he doesn't know what the game is about - I bet you anything he hasn't played O3, IT and not even GR. :P
Ignosco wrote:Actually, that's another question... is there a reason for limiting the number of save slots for your games (particularly for GR and O3)?
No, this is purely a style thing in GR and EbG (9 instead of 10, because the two digit number would stand out). In GR, it's also due to the space - I didn't want multipage saves and thumbnails, to go with the simple nature of the menu and more or less the game as a whole.

For O3, the situation is the same, but slighlty different. There are style concerns, yes,...
but while there are only 3 names of save games (Part 0, 1 and 2), in 5 places in the game, if you save them in that specific spot, the names of the 5 special save names will form the "motto" of Ori's love.

Fezvez

Re: Gakuen Redux

#63 Post by Fezvez »

Oh? I can reply?

Well, as I went on in GR, a thought grew up in my mind, mainly "I really have to thank the authors of this KN!"

So, here I am, I've just finished it a few hours ago, and here I am!

So, what are the Pros? I never thought free games could have this quality, the music, the background, the plot, and of course the deepness of the plot. This means that I've first been struck by the quality of the text, especially at the beginning. However, I did not feel any of these "weird" expressions some of you talked about, surely because English is not my native tongue.
So, the quality of the language, immediately followed by the plot, which was really captivating. How can I explained it? It must be because of this feeling of "similarity" between me and the hero. I don't know the word for I_can_swap_places_with_him but you got the point :P

Then, I have to tell you that it is long... very long... a bit too much in fact, especially in the end. Not that the passages of everyday life were boring, as they were not, they really helped the atmosphere. No, I just couldn't understand why he acted as he did with the grown-up teacher. And, well, to tell the truth, I skipped some passages.

But, this is mainly because it was the end of this KN, so I'm thinking about this right now. The point is that I've been really captivated during 75% of this novel.

Oh, and I like changing moods, a bit like the hero in fact, so I really don't get (read : I find it unbelievable) that the character can feel so self-confident from time to time because of his past experiences, but begins to shake tremendously as soon as he sees a girl.

Again, this is only a small critic in an ocean of praises, I definitely enjoyed it, the technique used was great (the small bubbles with the different characters inside, great!), and the end was... reasonnable. A bit short, a bit strange, a bit normal... well, it's a good idea anyway not to have put a cheap "happy end"

OK, I believe that subconsciously, the more I write, the happier the authors will be, so I'm maybe talking nonsense. So, I think I'll stop here for this review!

Thanks again!

User avatar
mikey
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3249
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:03 am
itch: atpprojects
Contact:

Re: Gakuen Redux

#64 Post by mikey »

Thank you for playing!

I'm glad for every comment, so thank you for taking the time. It's great that you could enjoy it - it's now I think two years after its release, and especially comments for such "older" games give me motivation, when people still play them.

Thank you! :P

Watercolorheart
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:15 am
Completed: Controlled Chaos / Sum of the Parts / "that" Midna game with ZONEsama
Projects: Sparse Series/Oddments Shop original cartoon in Pevrea; Cybernetic Duels (fighting game); Good Vibin'
Organization: Watercolorheart Studios
IRC Nick: BCS
Tumblr: adminwatercolor
Deviantart: itsmywatercolorheart
Github: Watercolordevdev
Skype: heartnotes
Soundcloud: Watercollider
itch: watercolorheart
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Gakuen Redux

#65 Post by Watercolorheart »

Ah ... this was a good one, if long ... I don't know how I got through it all, honestly ...
I'm not even the same person anymore

Hudzon
Regular
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:48 am
Location: Demoness of Moe
Contact:

Re: Gakuen Redux

#66 Post by Hudzon »

I finished the game a few days ago and now that I finally got access to the Internet I felt that I just had to tell you how awesome it was.

The atmosphere of the game was amazing, and the music fit the scenes perfectly. Sometimes it even felt as if the music was synchronized to the mood I felt while reading.

The story was enjoyed by myself on a great scale.
I was impressed by the depth of the protagonists thoughts. One of the reasons why the game was so great was because he viewed the Redux as a bad thing. I liked how he stressed out that the only thing he gained from it was money, and that the Redux brought more problems than it solved.
During the time I read the novel I wondered how old you were in reality so I could better understand the trail of thoughts you had in your mind while writing it.
I also found it interesting that even though he viewed himself as a weak person he revealed himself to have a personality and a set of skills that can be considered impressive even for a 29 year old. For example he never once doubted that Ione would fall in love with him if she could see his True Self.
Another thing I enjoyed was the whole situation with Ione. It was nice to see that even though he had a great advantage over everyone and it seemed as if he could achieve practically any previously unachievable goal that he wanted to (such as winning over Miyori or Kotone), the goal he chose to pursue was not only unaided by the Redux, but was hindered by it.
It was also strange for me to realize that this was the one kind of "deviant" love that I haven't previously given much thought to, especially considering how much I dealt with it in reality.

And the way he won Ione's heart was priceless! So much thought was put into his tactics, and the story kept me in suspense and uncertainty up to the very last moment. I didn't realize the full range of emotions Ione truly felt for him up until the "You don't have to wash it..." scene, which was my favorite scene in the game.

Oh, and when he said that he could die from exhaustion I pondered that seeing how cruel you were to him during the course of events it would be a plausible ending that he would die from exhaustion while in Ione's appartment.

I was very happy to see a happy ending, though. It's true that it was a bit abrupt and I would've liked to find out more of how they lived as a couple and coped with all the problems that came their way, I think that your ending worked better for GR. Otherwise not only would it stretch out far too long, but the story would end up focusing less on the Redux and more on how difficult such a relationship is.
I believe that I understood a lot of what you were trying to say with the novel, however I am still a bit confused by the message you tried to convey with the last part of the second to last chapter: The part where he thought that the tension was not gone as it was not a triumph of love, but a choice.
Can you please reveal what you meant by that? I fear that no matter how deep I try to look into it I can't understand the message behind that paragraph. (Would that mean that I would not have been deep enough to be admitted into Azasuke's thinkers group? :( )
Last edited by Hudzon on Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mikey
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3249
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:03 am
itch: atpprojects
Contact:

Re: Gakuen Redux

#67 Post by mikey »

Thank you so much for those comments!

Some of the things you may want to spoiler tag, since they tell a lot about the story, but maybe it doesn't matter. This isn't about some secret plot twist.

To answer your question about the triumph of love, it's not anything complicated - Azasuke just meant with it,
that even though the fact that Ione accepted him and they felt love for each other, it wasn't going to be easy - for this love they would have to sacrifice a lot more than say "normal" couples - that's why it was a choice, a choice to go through all the hardships of the future, knowing that love is all that they would have to help them. Surely life would have been much less complicated for them if they wouldn't be together, if Ione just said no - so with this I wanted to say that this wasn't the usual romantic I Love You that makes the tension go away, and the world is wonderful because you know your love is mutual and you know that you can overcome any obstacle, because just thinking about what their love would need to go through made the happiness sort of overshadowed by the complications to come (this isn't to say they weren't happy, but it was something very heavy-weighing that came with their love) - and so in an instant, with accepting the love between them, they accepted this whole lot of complications - in this sense it didn't feel to them like the happy ending where love conquers all, but as a beginning of a new struggle for acceptance of their relationship (friends, family etc,...) that normally isn't there if two people love each other. But, they chose to do it nevertheless, because - maybe egoistically - they wanted their love at any cost. So sure, love triumphed, but not in that classic sense, to them it felt more like they have chosen the path with love, over the easier existence without it.
Hudzon wrote:During the time I read the novel I wondered how old you were in reality so I could better understand the trail of thoughts you had in your mind while writing it.
Hmmm, I was 25 when I first had the idea of this and started to work on the first version - by the time I did the VN version I was 28.

Again, thanks for the comments, I'm happy you enjoyed it!

Hudzon
Regular
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 6:48 am
Location: Demoness of Moe
Contact:

Re: Gakuen Redux

#68 Post by Hudzon »

Thanks for clearing that up for me! Looking back at that part it makes more sense to me now.

Hmm, looks like some of my words really did need a few spoiler tags. I know how it feels when you accidentally read the ending by casually going through the forum like this.

And I had the feeling you were about the same age as Azasuke. :)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users