'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

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dott.Piergiorgio
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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#16 Post by dott.Piergiorgio »

I could provide one right now, but I am touching the project up a little due to feedback!
as written, no haste needed.... after all, with my really huge ren'ai backlog and my tendency to comment only after having gotten at least one ending (or seen all the KN) is improbable that I can help in feedback ;)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.

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Applegate
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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#17 Post by Applegate »

dott.Piergiorgio wrote:
I could provide one right now, but I am touching the project up a little due to feedback!
as written, no haste needed.... after all, with my really huge ren'ai backlog and my tendency to comment only after having gotten at least one ending (or seen all the KN) is improbable that I can help in feedback ;)

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
;) I finished touching it up. The novel should clock in around ~10 minutes, which is my reading speed. So likely anywhere from 8~15 minutes, depending on if you wait for all my pauses or not, and if you read as fast as I do or faster.

There's also only one ending. ;) Don't worry it's really short, you won't need to spend a lot of time reading.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#18 Post by Samu-kun »

I downloaded this since I felt obligated to play through the game once before I could approve it on Renai.us.

I only have to ask, why did you strip down the engine so much when renpy has so many nice options, most importantly, the ability to change the text speed. It was way too slow, so I just had to press enter to skip through the text all the time, which probably somewhat lowered the impact of the story.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#19 Post by Applegate »

Hi. With regards to that:
I wanted it to be a piece read leisurely and slowly - hence the slow text speed

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#20 Post by Jake »

Applegate wrote:Hi. With regards to that:
I wanted it to be a piece read leisurely and slowly - hence the slow text speed
Unfortunately, one man's "leisurely" is another man's "tortuously slowly".


Given Drake's praise I was interested in this title, but a little put off by the many comments about text speed, so I figured I'd wait until it got fixed and then read it. If it's actually intentionally difficult to read, then I'll just give it a miss; I don't need 8-15 minutes of frustration.
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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#21 Post by IceD »

This piece is so short I don't see a reason to speed up the reading, especially if it was meant to be read slowly. Faster reading would propably ruin the mood, but I won't argue on this - everyone has it's own preferences.

Ok - as said earlier, I finished it and must admit it's a really nice piece! Your writing is good and you paced it well, so it's was a real pleasure to read. The story, though short was charming and you used all the materials, especially music in a good manner - it fit the rest wonderfully, making this small visual novel a truly nice experience.

You've modified the engine and I see a certain reason in stripping it to that what was left, so it's allright. Because it was short, there propably wasn't any meaning to build it up but some more customization, at least on the looks of the main menu would be more appreciated. As for the rest... You've used the ADV system but I feel, that the NVL would fit this piece better, especially if there weren't any sprites - your writing was more lyric. The only thing that bothered me was that you've used that type of writing which would fit NVL-style storytelling, yet used ADV - it was a bit confusing like that and I barely could understand who's talking at every moment. If you write it like that, please try to use NVL, otherwise use the name tags and divide dialogue lines one per each screen - with this, it'd be much more comfortable to read. To sum up, it would be nice to see this with all the flaws corrected, neverthless which type of storytelling will you chose.

You have my best regards :) It seems you have a talent for writing. Keep it up and I hope to see something bigger in the near future!

And by the way... If you have the time to work on something together and would like to join for something more complicated - I'm currently working on a scenario for a VN and will need some help in the near future, both with writing, proofreading and any propable corrections (english isn't my prime language) so If you'd like to give a helping hand that would be great :)

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#22 Post by Applegate »

Hi.
Jake wrote:I was interested in this title, but a little put off by the many comments about text speed, so I figured I'd wait until it got fixed and then read it.
Please consider another story if you dislike slow stories. I have tried long and hard to think of a way to phrase this nicely, but I feel it is difficult to convey such a feeling. Please do not take offence at my words.
IceD wrote:[...] some more customization, at least on the looks of the main menu would be more appreciated.
I admit I liked the main menu as is myself. If I make an overhaul of the story, it is likely I will customise the looks of the main menu itself. However, this seems unlikely, as I would only consider a re-release if there was significant change to the presentation form.
As for the rest... You've used the ADV system but I feel, that the NVL would fit this piece better
I will be the first to admit I have no idea how to properly use the NVL-mode. Scripting is not my forte.
I hope to see something bigger in the near future!
Thank you. I am rather fond of short stories, however. Ha ha. I was interested in writing a longer, bigger and, hopefully, more involving piece to read. I do not yet know of what to write.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#23 Post by Jake »

Applegate wrote: Please consider another story if you dislike slow stories.
I have nothing at all against slow stories. There are some slow stories that I love. What I don't like is unnecessarily slow text.

If it's going noticeably slower than my reading speed, then it's frustrating to wait for, so I'll click to complete the line... Drake's post already highlighted the problem with this - the potential to miss lines of dialogue because you're so used to clicking-to-advance that you click after a short line has already completed and miss it entirely. This is also frustrating, therefore the entire experience of reading something that someone else has chosen the reading speed of is frustrating.
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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#24 Post by Applegate »

Hi.

I believe DrakeNavarone's comments included the suggestion of a ctc indicator to ameliorate the situation. I have included one such a marker, and although there is no commentary regarding it I believe it clearly indicates when you should click to advance the story. Clicking at any point in time where there is no such indicator will progress the line to its end.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#25 Post by dott.Piergiorgio »

eh, just yesterday I have finally readed it (being a KN, I think it's the best term....) and the story is rally touching, and definitively Latin (or at least until few years ago, prior of the disease about "produticity", "professionality" and protestant workalholic ethics) and the choice of fuzzy pictures gives in an excellent manner the remembrance atmosphere..

on the speed, or lack of, of the text, I have a bit suffered for it, and I have a really fast reading (80-100 pph in English, and 120-140+ in Italian), but I suspect that there's people whose are more slow in reading and not of English mothertongue, whose perhaps don't feel bothered by the slow text (in brief, is another case of YMMV).

Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#26 Post by yuastnav »

A very lachrymose story.
So short yet touching.

Thank you.

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#27 Post by Musashi »

Hi, I've tested the new Linux version under Ubuntu Karmic and Lucid, and it worked perfectly! The new Mac version also plays correctly under Tiger. I really couldn't tell any difference between them - unless you are using unusual video formats or something, I'd just rely on Pytom's excellent code and release all three versions without worrying.

It is a good story, and the embedding the main plot in a flashback was a nice effect. The choice of music definitely helped!

The flow was very much improved over the last version, although there was still some friction between my reading speed and the text progression speed. Dunno if this can be done, but maybe to get the right "reminiscing" feel, you could have a voice actor read the main character's part. I noticed that the text speed had rhythms very close to a person speaking, which gave me the idea.

I think this piece could be really be Renpy front-page-feature quality with a little more polishing. Seeing all the criticism makes me think that people really care about the story, that it should come out and shine at its best.
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(Work in progress)

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#28 Post by Applegate »

Hi.
dott.Piergiorgio wrote:eh, just yesterday I have finally readed it
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
on the speed, or lack of, of the text, I have a bit suffered for it
This has been an issue for me for a while now; I have considered doubling the text speed from 30 characters per second to 60 to ameliorate the issue. It makes the piece a little faster than I completely intended, but providing that reading speed and text appearance do not directly corrolate, perhaps it will make little difference in the end with regards to how fast the piece is read.
yuastnav wrote:A very lachrymose story.
So short yet touching.

Thank you.
I'm glad you enjoyed the story. I am glad my story could convey feelings to you.
Musashi wrote:Hi, I've tested the new Linux version under Ubuntu Karmic and Lucid, and it worked perfectly! The new Mac version also plays correctly under Tiger. I really couldn't tell any difference between them - unless you are using unusual video formats or something, I'd just rely on Pytom's excellent code and release all three versions without worrying.
Ha ha! That is good to hear. I always worry a little due to lack of testing facilities here.
It is a good story, and the embedding the main plot in a flashback was a nice effect. The choice of music definitely helped!
I felt that the music was perfect from the moment I heard it. I am lucky there was music available in the public domain, and MacLeod and Gelhaar are talented musicians.

The choice for a flashback scheme is because I felt that, to keep the piece short, I would have to skip certain (uninteresting) parts - daily conversations are not very fun to read when read extensively, and I thought that someone flashbacking would be more inclined to only recall, or tell of, the most important parts. In this case, meeting the girl, and seeing her for the last time were the prominent parts that the speaker remembered.
The flow was very much improved over the last version, although there was still some friction between my reading speed and the text progression speed.
I have since upgraded the text speed from 30 characters per second to 60 in an attempt to improve this aspect, without making the text flow too fast - I hope that will remove this as an issue.
Dunno if this can be done, but maybe to get the right "reminiscing" feel, you could have a voice actor read the main character's part.
I am afraid I don't know how to implement voice acting, or where to find a good voice actor for little compensation. I will also admit I am unfamiliar with the VN scene, so I have not yet seen examples of implemented voice acting, and am wary of using a scheme I am not familiar with.
I noticed that the text speed had rhythms very close to a person speaking, which gave me the idea.
Whenever I write my texts, I try to read it myself first. If I find it can be read aloud easily, I will keep it as is, or sometimes adjust the text to make it flow better. I have not always succeeded - sometimes I was unsure how to change it, or felt the original line worked in written format even if it did not speak well. However, I wanted the piece to read as something that could be spoken, given I believe it is easier to read.
I think this piece could be really be Renpy front-page-feature quality with a little more polishing. Seeing all the criticism makes me think that people really care about the story, that it should come out and shine at its best.
Ha ha. I am glad to hear that, although I admit I am not entirely sure on its room for improvement.

I have since discovered the NVL-mode, but I am unsure where to insert the text breaks, when permit new screens to begin, and how to handle the date listings. (which seem a little odd in NVL-mode if I keep them as is)

Fixing a new version for release may take some time - I do not yet have an idea how to accomplish a renewed main menu, and a story written in NVL-mode, although I admit I would like to make this as best as it can be, with reasonable boundaries kept in mind. If I had my way, surely I would have a soundtrack composed especially for this piece, with lovingly hand-drawn pictures included. Ha ha!

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#29 Post by VDZ »

Heh. Never expected to make an account on these forums.
I stumbled on this piece randomly, I can't even remember where I downloaded it from.
First of all, let me say that I'll be blunt and honest, I won't be going all nice guy here.

The story in this piece is rather generic. As someone mentioned before, it's something almost everybody has experienced at some point in their lives. However, this also means that it's been written about countless times already, and it won't be much of an interesting story to those who have already read about it too often.
The story is also rather shallow, with most of the story only explaining what happened with little detail; it's exactly the details that 'pull you into the story', and make it stand out from other stories. You said long meaningless conversations probably aren't fun to read, but if written well, they can actually be the highlight of a story. It's also the casual conversations that let the player really know what a character is like. Clannad and Little Busters are great examples of visual novels featuring lots of casual dialogue that is very interesting and very important for characterization.
There's also the already-mentioned speed issues. Different people have different reading speeds, and you can only go so far in trying to dictate their reading speed. Going too far will only annoy the reader and perhaps even make the reader drop the story. Forced reading speed and stops should only be used at moments where they truly fit. For an example, you might want to try Ryukishi07's works, Higurashi no Naku Koro ni and Umineko no Naku Koro ni, which use these elements perfectly (first episodes of both works, translated to English, can be downloaded for free from Sonozaki Futago-tachi's site and The Witch Hunt's site, respectively).

But I didn't come here to point out the obvious problems in a random story (there are countless stories on here I could point out a lot more for). Although the plot was weak, I found your writing to be quite good. It had a couple of minor problems, where some sentences were awkward, but overall your writing was interesting even if the story itself wasn't. I think that if you were to write a story with an actually interesting plot and well-characterized characters, it could be quite good. In other words, keep at it. I think you have talent, unlike most of the OELVN writers whose works I've read.

If you decide to write a story with an interesting plot, I'll be looking forward to it. If it's interesting enough, I would also like to help by composing background music for it, if I can manage to make good enough music for it (I'm still very inexperienced, and I'm especially weak at slice-of-life tunes).

Also, one last question, http://renai.us/game/nice-day.shtml seems to list the writer as "Henra"? Is that your pen name, or is it a case of incorrect attribution? You haven't written your name anywhere in your work (even on the credits page you only wrote 'Yours truly.'), and I wouldn't even have known anything if I hadn't decided to check renai.us just in case...

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Re: 'Nice Day' - short kinetic novel

#30 Post by Applegate »

Hello!

Haha, thanks a lot for your comments! I was beginning to feel a little bloated, so hearing the story was pretty generic does me good.

The version that doesn't list my name is the version someone mischievously posted on 4chan - it is an old and outdated version, and the current one in the first post is the most recent one, although not necessarily forever so. Is there a specific reason you'd like to know my name? It's correct attribution as I submitted it myself, although "Henra" would be a typo.

As far as music goes, I appreciate the offer. Although I've drafted a few ideas I cannot say I have anything definite right now, but I will remember to pay you a visit when I do. Right now, this one is being changed a little, and then re-released - it's likely my "main project" still, as I have begun touching up the writing a little to remove some inconsistencies between draft, reality and eventual product. :-P

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