Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

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Anna
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Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#1 Post by Anna » Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:51 am

Image
Hello!

First of all, allow me to introduce myself and my team. I'm Anna, the artist of Circle Pegasi. Pegasi is a Dutch doujinshi circle which mainly focuses on fantasy stories. Our crew consists out of two women and now and then a friend helps us out with programming.

Up until now, we've been creating doujinshi/short mangas, but last summer we decided to give visual novels a try. Thus Firefly was made. Since the game is written in English, and quite a lot of work was put into it, we would like to share it with you as well.

Firefly is a fantasy visual novel, which follows the adventures of the young thief Esta in the desert town Rhylian Ruins. There are no choices or multiple endings, but in return the game should take about nine hours to finish.

For more information and screenshots, please click the following link:

http://pegasi.weeaboo.nl/project-firefly.php

New demo version:

http://www.mediafire.com/?s5mhprzhihg3jo2

The above demo represents the story better than the old one did. However, if you just want to see what it looks like in-game and dislike the big download file, please download the old demo.

Old demo version:

http://www.mediafire.com/?2o6mgcmsbef489g

You will need Java version 6 or higher to play, download/check if you have it here:

http://java.com/en/

If you encounter any problems, either send me a PM here or e-mail to pegasi@weeaboo.nl, so I'll be notified of your problem.
Last edited by Anna on Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Firefly (commercial, fantasy)

#2 Post by Mirage » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:07 am

Looks interesting. I will try to give review after I finish playing the demo.

Some stuff I like to know:
1. Why the demo started in the middle of the story? Wouldn't starting from the beginning gives a better outlook of the story?
2. What's the main focus of the story (besides fantasy)? Is it romance? Drama? Mystery? Comedy? A mix of all?

Last but not least, I think it would attract more people attention if you introduce the characters by providing images and summary.

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Re: Firefly (commercial, fantasy)

#3 Post by Aleema » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:07 am

Welcome, Anna!! :D Your game looks great! Congrats on its release!! <3 I love the art style, the music was interesting (and I liked how it showed what was playing), the main character has a strong personality. Good points!

I've downloaded the demo and tried it out, and I think I agree with Mirage that your demo is misplaced in your story. Your excerpt did not entice me to buy or play your game further. From what you've put forth about the game, the demo was barely like what I expected.

- The demo appears to be set in a modern age, but the game is purported to be fantasy. It got more fantasy as we went into town, but the first few backgrounds looked like a modern house.
- Nothing about the premise you've hooked us with is featured. In fact, nothing about what you have featured is really intriguing. 2 interesting characters were introduced, and one was really, really belabored. I would suspect that not starting the game at the beginning would be to demonstrate something special or specific (like the whole cast or interesting plot point), but I found neither ... gah ... I'm so sorry. >_<
- The PR cover you have to advertise the game shows about 4 different boys, but the majority of the demo featured NONE to ONE of them and in fact revolved around a girl. I can't help but ask, but is this demo supposed to encourage male buyers? Where are the MANY BOYS that you're advertising on the poster? xD Seeing Michel was a relief, but he went away sooner than I'd want. Damn you, Dagger Esta!
- I wasn't sure who was saying what. Scenes with no names being tossed around are very confusing. Sucks that this is said now, after release, but there ya go. =\

Of course, you're probably not looking for critique, but I do sincerely wish for your game's success! :D

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Re: Firefly (commercial, fantasy)

#4 Post by gekiganwing » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:30 am

Thanks for joining the forum, Anna.

Looking at your site, it seems you've created a few comics with original characters, and sold them at conventions in Europe. You might benefit by selling your comics online.

Also, I was a little surprised to note that your game engine for Firefly was custom made. I'm curious why you made that decision.
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Re: Firefly (commercial, fantasy)

#5 Post by Mirage » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:50 am

Review... (Kinda... ^^;)

I'll be frank I couldn't finish the demo, because half way through reading it, I got so lost who is talking to who. I think it would really help if there's the character name next to the one who's talking. It gets really confusing when there are several people talking at once.

Aside from that, I am not a fan of NVL, so that might also one big factor that hinder my overall enjoyment. I mean there's lots of eye candy in the game, but a big box is covering them 99.9% of the time.

I'm quite impressed with the graphics. They are very nice to eye, and all the different expressions and poses are quite well done. The music is pretty good, too.

But the biggest problem would have been nothing so far in the story attracted me. I thought that the demo would showcase the best part of the story since it didn't start from the beginning. Instead, the entire demo is pretty uneventful. I think it would help to sell better if you show off interesting parts with strong cliff hanger.

By the way, when I right click in the beginning (the part where company logo appears), the game freezes.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#6 Post by Anna » Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:59 pm

Oh my, it seems there are quite a few things we've overlooked. Thanks for replying, and critique is perfectly fine; It shows us where the problems lie after all. Let's see what I can answer :).
Mirage wrote: Some stuff I like to know:
1. Why the demo started in the middle of the story? Wouldn't starting from the beginning gives a better outlook of the story?
2. What's the main focus of the story (besides fantasy)? Is it romance? Drama? Mystery? Comedy? A mix of all?

Last but not least, I think it would attract more people attention if you introduce the characters by providing images and summary.
1. The main reason was that we thought the beginning might be a bit too dark and at the time we made the demo, everything we needed for this part was done.
2. There's a bit of all in it, but the main focus of the story (besides fantasy) is mystery.

As for the summary; it is hard to say more about it than the one on the main page already does without giving things away ^^;.

Moving on to the characters, we didn't want to introduce all the characters like that, because this isn't a dating sim where knowing everyone is really necessary. The screenshots on our site show most of the characters as well.
Aleema wrote:Welcome, Anna!! :D Your game looks great! Congrats on its release!! <3 I love the art style, the music was interesting (and I liked how it showed what was playing), the main character has a strong personality. Good points!

I've downloaded the demo and tried it out, and I think I agree with Mirage that your demo is misplaced in your story. Your excerpt did not entice me to buy or play your game further. From what you've put forth about the game, the demo was barely like what I expected.

- The demo appears to be set in a modern age, but the game is purported to be fantasy. It got more fantasy as we went into town, but the first few backgrounds looked like a modern house.
- Nothing about the premise you've hooked us with is featured. In fact, nothing about what you have featured is really intriguing. 2 interesting characters were introduced, and one was really, really belabored. I would suspect that not starting the game at the beginning would be to demonstrate something special or specific (like the whole cast or interesting plot point), but I found neither ... gah ... I'm so sorry. >_<
- The PR cover you have to advertise the game shows about 4 different boys, but the majority of the demo featured NONE to ONE of them and in fact revolved around a girl. I can't help but ask, but is this demo supposed to encourage male buyers? Where are the MANY BOYS that you're advertising on the poster? xD Seeing Michel was a relief, but he went away sooner than I'd want. Damn you, Dagger Esta!
- I wasn't sure who was saying what. Scenes with no names being tossed around are very confusing. Sucks that this is said now, after release, but there ya go. =\
You bring up some legitimate points. As stated above, the start of the story is rather serious at the beginning, so at first we didn't think it would make a good demo. However, we also know how the rest of the story goes, so hearing it's just too confusing to start in the middle of the story from a fresh point of view is very helpful.

We've decided to upload a new demo, you can find it in our opening post here :). We'll also upload this onto our site later on.
Aleema and Mirage: wrote:
I think the main reason why it's confusing without names, might be because you don't know the characters well enough yet and aren't used to the novel format/mode. Because our team already knows who says what and their personalities, we didn't notice this problem ^^;.

If you want to, you could try and see if you have the same problem with the new demo. Also, there's a view CG option in the menu for if you want to take a look at everything without the text box.
Aleema wrote: Of course, you're probably not looking for critique, but I do sincerely wish for your game's success! :D
Thank you, and I can't stress this enough; critique is fine! Ignoring the flaws is just stupid, so thank you very much for your help ;D!
gekiganwing wrote:Thanks for joining the forum, Anna.

Looking at your site, it seems you've created a few comics with original characters, and sold them at conventions in Europe. You might benefit by selling your comics online.

Also, I was a little surprised to note that your game engine for Firefly was custom made. I'm curious why you made that decision.
Thank you for the welcome~

You're right, we have. I'm still a bit worried about selling them online though, because issues with the mail could come up. We also print limited copies of the books, so most times we have just enough to go by. However, I'll discuss this with my partner, thanks for your input!

The reason why we made a custom engine is that we had the opportunity to make an engine which fits our desires and which can do anything we'd like. For example, this makes the coding a lot easier, since we already know the language and it's optimised to be as efficient as possible. It also means that if we run into a problem, we can fix it ourselves :). I personally love it.
Mirage wrote:Review... (Kinda... ^^;)

But the biggest problem would have been nothing so far in the story attracted me. I thought that the demo would showcase the best part of the story since it didn't start from the beginning. Instead, the entire demo is pretty uneventful. I think it would help to sell better if you show off interesting parts with strong cliff hanger.

By the way, when I right click in the beginning (the part where company logo appears), the game freezes.
Yeah that was our mistake, we chose a more representative part now ;). Thanks for reporting the bug too, it's probably a mistake in our program to run videos, we'll look into it.


Well, that was quite the post haha. If there is anything else which is confusing or forms a problem, please let us know.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#7 Post by Cain0425 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:45 pm

i want to play the demo of this game but this error comes up

error

java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException

and then this comes up next

error

Fatal error during init

what do i do about this?

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#8 Post by Anna » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:24 pm

Cain0425 wrote:i want to play the demo of this game but this error comes up

error

java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException

and then this comes up next

error

Fatal error during init

what do i do about this?
Please make sure you have Java version 6 or higher installed, as this novel runs entirely on Java. You can download it here (or check if you have it at all) : http://java.com/en/

It's late in my timezone, so I can't contact my debuggers at the moment. If this doesn't solve your problem, I'll contact them tomorrow and let you know what to do as soon as possible ^^.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#9 Post by Aleema » Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:35 pm

Since you're not against critique, I'm going to strongly say that the decision to not include who is talking when they're talking is a huge mistake. For a free game, I would let you do your thing since you obviously prefer this method of dialogue. However, since you are encouraging people other than yourself and your developers to read your work (and to pay for it), it is really and truly the quickest thing you could do to discourage players. Just look at Mirage -- didn't finish the demo. I admit I skipped more than I should have, which results in losing focus on who's talking completely. Not everything people say will color themselves so independently from everyone else that it would be easy to tell who is talking merely from any one statement. In fact, color is a good suggestion to help you differentiate characters. Make Esta's text red, Michel's blue, etc. I'm not an expert in NVL-themed novels (which is what you have), but having the ability to show large blocks of text at once is so that you can be more descriptive. If you're just showing lines upon lines of dialogue ... you've chosen a poor delivery system. Either read your story like a novel ("Blah blah blah," said Dagger.) or read it like script (Dagger: Blah blah blah.), or some other creative way outside of just letting text stand for it itself. The character's sprite's mouth doesn't even open or move when they talk. There is literally no other clues to who is talking outside of concentrating really damn hard. It shouldn't be a chore to follow your story. =\ Knowing who was saying what was really, really hit and miss for me in the demo, so I only got the partial effect of your story. I found I read most all of the narration (what Esta was saying in her head) because I knew 100% who was saying it.

It will get better once we know their personalities, you said? We won't get to that point if it's too confusing to be fun. =\ Novels do have this delivery method of dialogue, just one after the other, but I can't remember reading one without ever second guessing who was talking, and I have to reread the whole thing because I skipped one line or whatever and read everything in someone else's voice. =P And they have ALWAYS have been just for TWO people talking. Point is, even when those patches of dialogue are short and you know the characters intimately, you can get confused. Throw in more people talking at the same time and you're doing us a huge disservice. Of course, you probably won't be convinced this is a problem until several more people say the same thing, but I would avoid the amount of work this would entail doing until I was absolutely sure it was necessary, too. Perhaps use this time to think of ways to solve this that's best for you.

39mb is not a large file. xD That's actually pretty awesomely compact. The problem was Mediafire's slow download rate if anything.

Played your new demo, and I like it a LOT better. The characters are actually the ones advertised, there's intrigue, it's actually the premise you wrote to get us to play. I'd play more with this intro (though that glimpse into the future that is the older demo was still a drag -_-). I noticed a few typos, "The guy behing me" and some others I forgot to catch, sorry (and wtf is "face-bagged"!?). Also, everyone is wearing blue ... is that symbolism you're going for, or you just really like blue? If it's symbolism, I haven't got it yet, since the game's logo is red/yellow. Is it because Esta is red? lol. I like colors, so the same color over and over is something I'd expect in a 2 hour artsy movie. 9 hours might be weird, but hey, totally an artistic decision on your part. xD Also, Michel and Matt share the same first letter, and in a game that's already super confusing (to a point where I thought "Michey" was a third character), similar names doesn't help. But, again, you're within your right to name them however. Not a fan of NVL mode, since your game doesn't need it. Like, at all. Seems like you were just going for a convention that you thought was visual novels? You don't have so much darn text I need to see blocks of it at once. It just covers up the pretty art you guys made and gets distracting when it has to flicker on and off for a simple emotion change. I loved the effects in the game. Very well done, I think. Makes the gameplay interesting. :D I looked at the hotkeys in the menu (a for auto read, v to show the CG) and pressing the button on my keyboard did nothing ... Not sure why, but the hotkeys didn't work for me. OR, oh, wait, are those only when you're already hover on he menu item? Are they not supposed to work in game? The music track, I forget "relax and something" is actually disturbing for the tone it's going for. It's the bass line, that's really ... demonic and foreboding. Saving/Loading takes a long time to open the screen. I was able to load the last demo's saves without character sprites. Is your entire script in here? *snickers maliciously* Last thing, I swear ... the margin between the left side of the text box and the text is really small the edges almost touch the text, while there is as healthy margin on the right side, so my inner typographer is unsettled by this.

Okay, I'll reiterate that I like this demo a lot more. Matt kinda scared me after the scene where he thought I was being perverted. He shoved Esta and slams the door in her face! Very suspicious behavior for it just being a shirtless guy ... And scary that he'd physically put her someplace at the slightest provocation. I love Michel AND Esta's personality. The curly haired guy, the "rich retard" (don't even know his name), looks really interesting but can't say anything about him or Isun yet.

Thumbs up, I wish you luck, all that jazz. It looks like an amazing story and experience, and building your own game engine is to be commended (though everyone here will likely recommend Ren'Py :D ), and a 9 hour game is certainly a remarkable feat. Thanks for making a strong female protagonist game. <3
Last edited by Aleema on Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#10 Post by Applegate » Sun Dec 26, 2010 10:19 pm

To be fair, novels do sometimes utilise spoken text with no descriptions, although usually that's reserved for a dialogue between two characters, not between three.

I liked the demo. I suspect the little boy in the images is a trap.

One issue with the engine is that when pressing enter to skip during one of the "animations" (or rather, the moments the screen shakes), it'd pause for a bit and then continue again. It might be useful to see if you can let the engine ignore keypresses during the shaking moments.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#11 Post by Mirage » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:25 pm

Anna wrote:As for the summary; it is hard to say more about it than the one on the main page already does without giving things away ^^;.

Moving on to the characters, we didn't want to introduce all the characters like that, because this isn't a dating sim where knowing everyone is really necessary. The screenshots on our site show most of the characters as well.
I understand what you meant by this very well. I like writing mystery, and I don't like to spoil things. But you are going for commercial, I suggest you giving more glimpse of what the future holds. Maybe the new demo will remedy this, but not many people is going to give the demo a try with that little incentive. Let alone buying.

Basically when it comes to commercial, don't be afraid of showing teasers. Don't keep the best part hidden.
Anna wrote:As stated above, the start of the story is rather serious at the beginning, so at first we didn't think it would make a good demo.
Actually, I don't quite get why serious = bad for demo. I thought serious storyline could attract more people.
Anna wrote:If you want to, you could try and see if you have the same problem with the new demo. Also, there's a view CG option in the menu for if you want to take a look at everything without the text box.
I know there's such option, but I don't like the idea that I need to click to see things (basically I have to stop reading to see pictures). I like to be able to see the sprites while reading the story. But of course, that's just me feeling uncomfortable with NVL in general. ^^;

I'll give the new demo a try later.

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#12 Post by Cain0425 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:21 am

i did download it but the errors are still coming up

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#13 Post by Anna » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:00 am

Cain0425 wrote:i did download it but the errors are still coming up
Then you will be getting a PM from me as soon as I can. We'll figure it out~

As for everyone else; Wow, huge texts with lots of tips :). I'm going to talk everything over with the team today, and see what we can do about the things everyone mentioned. It seems there are some minor problems, but the text box covering most of the screen is the biggest problem (this includes the lack of names). I think we had the possibility to change this, so let's see what we can do, right?

It's really helpful everyone isn't afraid of giving their opinion over here by the way, we had released this novel in the summer and not one complaint through mail or a forum was given, so we remained oblivious. That's nice, but not in the long run, haha.

EDIT:
All right, I had a chat with my partner and we looked at our schedule and the things that would need to be changed.

Unfortunately, we can't rewrite the entire script of a nine hour game, because we simply don't have the time and are already working on other projects. If we were to adjust the text box, the entire script would have to be adjusted to that as well (and believe me, it's long :D).

It's indeed a bit confusing this way, but we'll improve this, and everything else that came up, in the next visual novel project. Nevertheless, thank you all for the input.

Also, to answer some questions about the hotkeys; They only work when you're in the menu (by right clicking or pressing escape and such, check the read me for controls).

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#14 Post by Cain0425 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:30 pm

hey i pay for your game online and they never give me the game or give me my money back!

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Re: Firefly - new demo! (commercial, fantasy & mystery)

#15 Post by Marcelo_Orlando » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:34 pm

This looks promising....downloading
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