To Hanzo

Finished games are posted here, once they've been tested and are ready for wide release.
Post Reply
Message
Author
Guest

To Hanzo

#1 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:56 pm

I learned about visual novels and kinetic novels just recently, and decided to see what I could do with the medium. I dug up a short story I wrote 5 years ago and turned it into a kinetic novel in flash. Please check it out and tell me what you think:

http://www.studiohunty.com/to_hanzo/

User avatar
papillon
Arbiter of the Internets
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:37 am
Completed: lots; see website!
Projects: that magical diary sequel, that vampire-raising game
Organization: Hanako Games
Tumblr: hanakogames
Contact:

#2 Post by papillon » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:19 pm

This was interesting. In general, I enjoyed it. The story is much less straightforward than a lot of the typical things we do here, which was a nice change. You might want to add a glossary of some kind to your FAQ - most of it is obvious from context but some of it can be puzzling at first, especially -
Since 'hide' is a common English word, it could be hard to search for, and the first time you mention it, it's not in the context of music, so there's not a lot of clues. I googled 'hide died' and got it, though. :)
So yeah, in general I liked the story and the slice of less-than-perfect characters it presented. I'm a bit less easy about:
I didn't really understand *why* the POV character was sleeping with Yumi. The first time, surprise and just-going-along-with-it, MAYBE. But after that? As presented, he didn't seem to like it much... I am not a guy, maybe I just fail to understand how easy it is for a teenage boy to get swept away by hormones? Or maybe he's just lonely, which makes sense, but see below.

The 'realization' about Yumi's nature near the end was problematic. First, he isn't actually realising anything at all! "She acts innocent but is really more of a slut" - wasn't that sort of obvious on the first date? That's not a realisation, it's just an observation of things that were already observed. Maybe if he realised "she really didn't want anything more from me than sex" or "love doesn't mean the same thing to her that it does to me" or anything that would actually be a new thought...

Also, "slutty rotten core" seems awfully harsh considering that _he is sleeping with her_. Having sex makes her rotten and him normal? Double standard much? He might, in fact, think this - I have certainly known men who have that opinion - but it makes him a scumbag and loses any goodwill on the part of this reader. :)

The use of the term burikko here was also the only time in the story that the japanese text really felt forced - like you were jamming it in there just to show that you knew the word rather than because it fit the story. This made more sense after I read the FAQ of course.

I think it would work better not to pass judgment on Yumi in the text of the story and leave it more ambiguous for the reader to decide what they thought of her.

Guest

#3 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:58 pm

papillon wrote:
Since 'hide' is a common English word, it could be hard to search for, and the first time you mention it, it's not in the context of music, so there's not a lot of clues. I googled 'hide died' and got it, though. :)
ah! Thanks for pointing that out! I've added it to the FAQ.

As for the rest...
I think he stayed with her because he was so happy to find another Escaflowne otaku. Even more, it seems like Yumi is not only Kenji's first girlfriend, but really the ONLY friend he has, which makes him very attached to her, and makes him ignore the fact that he's pretty much just a fuck toy. This also makes him angrier and more confused when he finally does realize that he's a fuck toy, which is why he says what he does.

You're totally right about the use of the word "burikko" though, and now that the story has evolved into something more than that class assignment I'll consider changing the line to be a little less "look at the fifty-dollar word!". :)X

(I'm phrasing things in "I think" and "it seems" because I think everyone's going to have a different take on the story, and even though I wrote it that doesn't mean my opinions about it are any more valid than anyone else's. :)X )

mikey
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:03 am
Contact:

#4 Post by mikey » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:07 pm

Hmm, it really doesn't fit into the concept of the things in this section. I see this more as an illustrated e-book than a visual novel, because it doesn't work with the pictures - they are there to make it a richer experience, not really to fill in blanks that the text can't.

The other thing is, this is more like a story about real people. As a result, it feels far less abstract than what the typical anime-ish visual novel will want to present. Specific names, specific places, that all plays a role.

And of course, having a self-pitying guy blame it on the girl, you're bound to be in big trouble with papillon here ^_^. On the other hand, I don't see why a teenage boy shouldn't have exactly those thoughts. He won't blame it on himself - and the girl doesn't care about him. One day, he'll (perhaps, hopefully) realize it was also his own choice (fault) to sleep and have that relationship with her, but at that time, I think the thoughts are pretty realistic.

Guest

#5 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:09 pm

Also, I'm confused about this quote:
papillon wrote:The story is much less straightforward than a lot of the typical things we do here, which was a nice change.
How can a kinetic novel be less straightforward than a visual novel? I'm taking it as a compliment, but it certainly wasn't one I was expecting. :)X

Guest

#6 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:15 pm

mikey wrote:Hmm, it really doesn't fit into the concept of the things in this section. I see this more as an illustrated e-book than a visual novel, because it doesn't work with the pictures - they are there to make it a richer experience, not really to fill in blanks that the text can't.
Yeah, it totally breaks with visual novel tradition, but I thought I might still be able to get away with calling it an unusual "kinetic novel". :)X

mikey
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 3244
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:03 am
Contact:

#7 Post by mikey » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:23 pm

Anonymous wrote:
papillon wrote:The story is much less straightforward than a lot of the typical things we do here, which was a nice change.
How can a kinetic novel be less straightforward than a visual novel? I'm taking it as a compliment, but it certainly wasn't one I was expecting. :)X
I think she meant that the character isn't just all morally pure and looking for the true love. "Typical things" and "straightforward" will probably refer to the content rather than the form of the VN. This forum is oriented on ren'ai, the people here will mostly enjoy romantic things without too much "reality" in the form of the million types of disappointment one can encounter.

Guest

#8 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:25 pm

...and I just discovered that this is the forum specifically for NaNoRenO games. Oh well, technically "To Hanzo" does have dating in it, so maybe I can get away with calling it a "first-person ren'ai game with no choices".

Yeah! That's it! This is my entry in this contest I just found out about today, after I'd already finished it! :)X

User avatar
papillon
Arbiter of the Internets
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:37 am
Completed: lots; see website!
Projects: that magical diary sequel, that vampire-raising game
Organization: Hanako Games
Tumblr: hanakogames
Contact:

#9 Post by papillon » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:41 pm

No no, this is for all released games. It's just that with the month wrapping up, at the moment it's going to be mostly contest entries. :)
but at that time, I think the thoughts are pretty realistic.
Hey, I did say I know guys who actually think/have thought that way. :) I didn't say it was bad writing for the character to have that opinion - just that it would make me think the character was an ass. :)

In fact, I mentioned it largely because I was arguing with someone earlier today about a rape inquiry, in which he was implying that the word of the alleged victim, a stripper, was automatically less reliable than the word of the alleged perpetrators, the men who hired her to dance, because by the fact of being a stripper she was proven to be disreputable.
My comment to him was that surely 'taking off your clothes for money' and 'paying someone to take off her clothes' should BOTH be disreputable?


By 'less straightforward' I mostly meant that... well, a lot of the ren'ai games we have around here do a big Explanation thing. "My name is X. I am Y years old. I am a <student / businessman / alien>." In this case, a lot of things are not directly explained, they're left to the reader to fill in. This is a more 'literary' approach, and is partially dictated by the medium.

When the player is directly controlling a character and making choices, the player needs to be certain about the relevant details. Having to make a choice that you, the player, do not understand is very frustrating - if you see a woman and are given the choice to speak to her or not to speak to her, and only after choosing to speak do you find out that this woman is actually the character's ex-wife, it feels unfair. If you're only an observer to the story, then you don't need to be told right away who the woman is, you can work it out as their interaction progresses.

Guest

#10 Post by Guest » Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:34 pm

papillon wrote:By 'less straightforward' I mostly meant that... well, a lot of the ren'ai games we have around here do a big Explanation thing. "My name is X. I am Y years old. I am a <student / businessman / alien>." In this case, a lot of things are not directly explained, they're left to the reader to fill in. This is a more 'literary' approach, and is partially dictated by the medium.
Ah! That totally makes sense. Thanks! :)X

User avatar
PyTom
Ren'Py Creator
Posts: 15205
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:58 am
Completed: Moonlight Walks
Projects: Ren'Py
IRC Nick: renpytom
Github: renpytom
itch: renpytom
Location: Kings Park, NY
Contact:

#11 Post by PyTom » Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:51 pm

I changed the thread name to be less generic, making it easier to find for future players.

As to the game, I'm not sure what think... It certainly leaves a lot more things open then the usual work. The time the characters spend together is very limited compared to what is usual in the genre, making it hard to get a sense of things from Yumi's perspective. (I think a companion story from her perspective would be an interesting concept.)

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I suggest you register, as it will allow you to be notified when people post in this thread in the future. (And people do tend to discuss these games months or years after the initial release.)
Supporting creators since 2004
(When was the last time you backed up your game?)
"Do good work." - Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom
"Silly and fun things are important." - Elon Musk
Software > Drama • https://www.patreon.com/renpytom

User avatar
luvcraft
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:04 pm
Contact:

#12 Post by luvcraft » Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:09 pm

PyTom wrote:I changed the thread name to be less generic, making it easier to find for future players.
I was wondering who did that. Thanks!
PyTom wrote:As to the game, I'm not sure what think... It certainly leaves a lot more things open then the usual work. The time the characters spend together is very limited compared to what is usual in the genre, making it hard to get a sense of things from Yumi's perspective. (I think a companion story from her perspective would be an interesting concept.)
Well, since the game has a share-alike Creative Commons license, people are free and even encouraged to create derivative works, like a version from Yumi's perspective! :)X

User avatar
Alessio
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 573
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 9:40 am
Projects: GO! Magical Boy (2006), Angelic Orbs (soundtrack), Cyberlin (in progress)
Location: Finland
Contact:

#13 Post by Alessio » Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:50 am

Interesting, and well-written, too. I didn't feel the story was too unlogical; the main character was pretty consistent even if we do not share his view on things. All these Japanese terms were hard to understand (I'm as un-otaku as it gets), but then again they serve their purpose, too.
Only gripe: It's not really a Visual Novel. More like a short story. But hey, it got me hooked and that's the main thing.

User avatar
luvcraft
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:04 pm
Contact:

#14 Post by luvcraft » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:03 am

glad you liked it! :)X

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users