H vs Ecchi Debate

[Hayzel]

So for my VN I want there to be "sex" scenes but not to the point where it is hentai. So my question is, do you guys see a difference in Hentai and being really vague sex scenes?

( This could be placed in the wrong area. Sorry for any inconvenience.)

[Camille]

If the sex is described or shown, it's basically hentai. Or rather, it's considered "explicit". If there is some nudity or fanservice, but no actual sex acts shown, then it's ecchi/sensual/what have you. I don't know what a "vague" sex scene is in your opinion, but I think the only way to do that is to basically show/hint that the characters are about to have sex, and then have it fade to black or something. That way the sex isn't actually shown or described, though everyone basically knows it happened, so you can avoid the "explicit" label, I guess.

I guess it's like the difference between a rated PG-13 movie and a rated R movie. (the difference between "sensual content" and "sexual content")

[Hayzel]

But there is an in between now isn't there? It's more or less PG-16. There is sex but it isn't described.
So instead of ": I blushed as he took my (tooexplict) etc."
It'd be.
"I blushed as I felt his breath against me then cried out as I felt the moistness of his mouth."

[Camille]

If you're going into that much detail, I still consider it to be explicit. :0

[Pyonkotchi]

That still sounds smutty :O

I'd personally think a fade in-out thing would be better

*mild* descriptions of touch and feeeellingggss. fade out, show them in bed with modesty blanket.
I honestly don't think Hentai is necessary
If I can skip it without missing any important plot details. it's not important (and H-scenes usually aren't :\ )

[Aleema]

"I blushed as I felt his breath against me then cried out as I felt the moistness of his mouth."

That seems OK to me? It does imply his mouth is somewhere other than her mouth, but for all we know it's her neck. That's really too smutty for you guys?? Don't make me make my games 18+ just because I describe some make out scenes in detail. -_-

We're actually have a discussion similar to this in Let's Hentai Hentai right now ... I have one sex scene in my game right now, and I was sweating bullets about how appropriate it was to stay in the game. I had to ask several people to read it and tell me if it was too much or if I should cut away, etc. Surprisingly, they said it was fine.

So it's really about the purpose and the execution of your sex scene, not necessarily "no sex scenes evar". While it will always been uncomfortable for some people, we're writing games about love and sex is a real part of relationships. That doesn't mean show it and be explicit, but that does mean ... if you're trying to be realistic with relationships (and one of the partners is a man *stereotypes ftw*), then sex is going to be an issue somewhere down the line.

I think the reason my sex scene got approved is because you couldn't skip it, as Pyonkotchi said, for plot details. Also, it focused immensely on feelings, inner thoughts, and a recap of their relationship, etc. Not really what was happening.

At age 24, I think vague sex is fine (non explicit as already said), but you will get 14 year olds playing your game, no matter how many warnings you put up. -_-

Aren't H and Ecchi are the same thing? Ecchi is just the Japanese pronunciation of the letter H. I suppose I'm not familiar enough with the terms as used in the market.

[HigurashiKira]

Aren't H and Ecchi are the same thing? Ecchi is just the Japanese pronunciation of the letter H. I suppose I'm not familiar enough with the terms as used in the market.

Ecchi is fanservice and nudity, but not explicit.

Generally, a vauge H-Scene would be like what happened in Ever17 between

Tsugumi and Takeshi

If you weren't looking for it, you wouldn't find it and would probably read past the scene with no problem whatsoever. But for those that read into it, then they can understand what's actually going on. If you can make the scene vauge enough to be just another line of text and don't focus mutch on it then you can slip past the radar with it.

Though in my opinion, go with whatever feels natural to you. If you want to do hardcore then more power to ya ;D

[LVUER]

Personally, I prefer "being naughty" (or ecchi) rather than a full blown hentai (not that I dislike hentai, even the hardcore one, I even love them >_< ). But naughtiness have something that far more lingering. Magister Negi Magi is a good example of ecchi without being hentai. I love it.

[Hayzel]

@Alemma

Yes my potential scene(s) is necessary for plot. It's not there for the sake of just being smutty.
Going back to what Camille said, there is rated PG-13(being sensual), then there is rated R(having sex but not showing anything of consequence). But Rated R is not porn where as Hentai is. IF we view things like that anything with blood and violence should be considered 18+ too ^^;

[Camille]

I don't know, there are varying kinds of R, sex scene-wise. D: If you watch "True Blood", the sex on that show is pretty darn graphic, but I think it still counts as "R", haha. I guess there's a difference between artistic, tasteful sex scenes vs gratuitous sex scenes. (when I think porn, I think more of like... actual genitalia being shown, lots of bodily fluids, etc)

Extreme amounts of blood and violence do make something R-rated! Think "Gladiator", haha.

Also, it focused immensely on feelings, inner thoughts, and a recap of their relationship, etc. Not really what was happening.

That makes all the difference.

I'm not squeamish or a prude by any means, but I think pointless sex scenes are a pain to sift through. Like, "what's the point" rather than "eww"? XD

[Pyonkotchi]

H/Ecchi is SUPPOSED to be a catch all phrase for all things dirty ;> the wacky folks on the internet gave it new meaning ohohoho

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If it's relevant than totally go with it, Just don't show or describe the sex in too much detail lol.
'specially if its plot relevant then the focus should be on whatever that plot point is ;>

it should be tasteful and vague enough that it can get it past radars i think ;>

[Hayzel]

Well porn is Hentai and visa versa.

And HBO is porn too, haven't you heard of "Hung"? XD

Hmm. Then I'll continue to make my games geared toward a general older teen audience.

[IonicMomo]

What you're describing seems like it would fit into the parameters of "R-rated" (17+), and not necessarily porn. R-rated movies often have sex scenes with bare legs, shoulders, even breasts and butts. (True Blood, as someone mentioned--or most HBO shows for that matter--qualify.) As long as no genitalia or sex fluids are visible and nothing hardcore is depicted, it's mostly pretty okay. I imagine the same would apply to writing. As long as everything is implied, rather than an explicit breakdown of how all the parts fit together, I think it's fine. Kissing is fine, crying out is fine, talking about sex is fine by R-rated film standards.

I see porn as having the sole intention to arouse, or at least an intention to arouse that supersedes the attempt to convey a meaningful and interesting plot. Most people that watch porn are honestly not very invested in the story. So what separates R from X is, I would say, not only the level of graphic depiction of sex (though that is a large part of it) but the intent behind it, i.e. the emotions involved and relevance to the story, like others have mentioned.

[KomiTsuku]

What you're describing seems like it would fit into the parameters of "R-rated" (17+), and not necessarily porn. R-rated movies often have sex scenes with bare legs, shoulders, even breasts and butts. (True Blood, as someone mentioned--or most HBO shows for that matter--qualify.) As long as no genitalia or sex fluids are visible and nothing hardcore is depicted, it's mostly pretty okay. I imagine the same would apply to writing. As long as everything is implied, rather than an explicit breakdown of how all the parts fit together, I think it's fine. Kissing is fine, crying out is fine, talking about sex is fine by R-rated film standards.

I see porn as having the sole intention to arouse, or at least an intention to arouse that supersedes the attempt to convey a meaningful and interesting plot. Most people that watch porn are honestly not very invested in the story. So what separates R from X is, I would say, not only the level of graphic depiction of sex (though that is a large part of it) but the intent behind it, i.e. the emotions involved and relevance to the story, like others have mentioned.

Agreed. The only thing I'd add on top of it is to know your audience. Not their age, but their tastes. People have different interpretations of the same rating, as you may have noticed.

[Hayzel]

What you're describing seems like it would fit into the parameters of "R-rated" (17+), and not necessarily porn. R-rated movies often have sex scenes with bare legs, shoulders, even breasts and butts. (True Blood, as someone mentioned--or most HBO shows for that matter--qualify.) As long as no genitalia or sex fluids are visible and nothing hardcore is depicted, it's mostly pretty okay. I imagine the same would apply to writing. As long as everything is implied, rather than an explicit breakdown of how all the parts fit together, I think it's fine. Kissing is fine, crying out is fine, talking about sex is fine by R-rated film standards.

I see porn as having the sole intention to arouse, or at least an intention to arouse that supersedes the attempt to convey a meaningful and interesting plot. Most people that watch porn are honestly not very invested in the story. So what separates R from X is, I would say, not only the level of graphic depiction of sex (though that is a large part of it) but the intent behind it, i.e. the emotions involved and relevance to the story, like others have mentioned.

Agreed. The only thing I'd add on top of it is to know your audience. Not their age, but their tastes. People have different interpretations of the same rating, as you may have noticed.

Haha. But that's really hard because of the double standard XD