Cannabis (Weed) Legality and Debate

[mugenjohncel]

If this thread is violating anything please feel free to delete this... or perhaps move it to another location

But please read first...

I'll go straight to the point and say... I'll make a short VN about Cannabis and raise awareness...

Why you ask?... Two days ago, a very close associate of mine was was arrested for possessing 10g of weed. That's 10 tiny grams of weed... now about this associate of mine... he's a businessman just like me... he's in his early 60's. A respected member of his community, a long time rotary club member and has served a single term as a city councilor in his region. So why is he in possession of weed and we can safely assume he's using it... so why you ask... you see he's suffering from a wide range of excruciatingly painful illnesses ranging from arthritis, rheumatism and other exotic named illnesses that are beyond my comprehension... now there exist pain killers but as he told me... none of those even heroin can give relief like weed does...

Now we all grew up with the knowledge that weed (cannabis or hemp)... we were taught at school, by our parents, by TV commercials and awareness campaigns and other propaganda that the stuff is bad and dangerous... but is it the truth?

A bit of research revealed to me a startling discovery. One that has made me disgusted like never before... as I move on and uncover more documentations both historical, scientific legal crap and citations from here and there... one thing finally emerged...

Weed also known as Cannabis was made illegal not because of it's so called "NEGATIVE EFFECTS" but because of corporate greed... I can list a lot of sources but this one should summarize everything...

http://www.thehempire.com/index.php/can ... is_illegal

So here we have men and women all over the world persecuted for the mere possession or usage of a stuff that is itself no more harmful than tobacco because some corporate jerk from long time ago got his way and spread false propaganda that the naive people back who will believe anything they see in the news as true not only absorbed but passed it onto their children and their grandchildren giving birth to this taboo on weed.

(Let's throw the hippie heaven thing out of the window... because we all know it's not true)

Now, I may be biased because someone I know was involved but think about it... there are countless suffering men and women out there who could use this to relief whatever pain their suffering. With the amount of active ingredients in it... who knows how many medicine for how many illnesses we can extract out of it. And don't forget the crap on War on Drugs... you know what happened back in the probation period in USA when booze was made illegal... didn't people learn from history?

At least Netherlands finally realized this and made proper corrective measures.

As for me I'll throw every support I can for my friend and now an advocate of Weed Legalization...

Now I toss the ball to you people...

"POOF" (Waits)

[Fawn]

It's well known that weed is illegal because they can't tax it properly, at least where I live (west coast of the USA, it's quite popular here if you didn't know hahaha) lots of people are pissed about it.
I wouldn't do weed, actually any substance (I don't even want to drink alcohol) but it's not cool that a lot of people get sent to jail just because of it. I know a couple guys in real life too that have been caught with a tiny amount and lost their freedom for it- they're really nice guys. Maybe weed made them that nice, hahaha.

Though, maybe doing weed on the job or while you're taking care of children/elderly people should be punished... who knows what could happen when someone's baked and they're in charge of helpless people.

[KomiTsuku]

I am personally against marijuana, against all mind-altering drugs really. I'll speak out against them all day with fervor. However, that doesn't mean that myself or the government should regulate what you do in the privacy of your own home. I've always stood very firm on the rights of the people, even when I don't completely agree with what they do with those rights. Now, if you were to smoke weed and attempt to drive a motor vehicle, yes, we have a legal problem as you now risk infringing on the life and liberty of others. Take the train instead? Perfectly fine with it.

Then again, I watched "Reefer Madness". I know all pot smokers are a bunch of sex-crazed murderers after they take a single hit.

[mugenjohncel]

it's not cool that a lot of people get sent to jail just because of it. I know a couple guys in real life too that have been caught with a tiny amount and lost their freedom for it

Exactly!... You have law abiding people being persecuted for using a substance for medical purposes...

Here's what the experts have to say (Ripped from the website I posted above)

US JAMAICAN STUDY 1974 said: "No impairment of physiological sensory and perceptual performance, tests of concept formation, abstracting ability, and cognitive style and tests of memory."

DR. ANDREW WEIL (RUBIN & COMITAS: 'GANJA IN JAMAICA', 1975) said: "a-motivation [is] a cause of heavy marijuana smoking rather than the reverse."

DEA JUDGE FRANCIS YOUNG'S REPORT, 1988, said: "[cannabis is] far safer than many foods we commonly consume and "in its natural form it is one of the safest therapeutically active substances known to man."

UK JUDGE JAMES PICKLES SAID IN 1992: "Cannabis never killed anybody and its use is widespread. You can't stop it. The law defeats itself because all the efforts to stop drugs coming in only drives up the prices and the gangsters move in to push the drugs."

AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT REPORT 1994: "Cannabis has been erroneously classified as a narcotic, as a sedative and most recently as an hallucinogen. While the cannabinoids do possess hallucinogenic properties, together with stimulant and sedative effects, they in fact represent a unique class of pharmaceutical compounds."

US DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES CRANCER STUDY said: "Simulated driving scores for subjects experiencing a normal social high and the same subjects under control conditions are not significantly different."

MEDICAL JOURNAL 'THE LANCET', NOV., 1995 said "The smoking of cannabis, even long term, is not harmful to health"

US NATIONAL TOXICOLOGY PROGRAM REPORT 1997 said: "... found absolutely no evidence of cancer."

UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA SCHOOL OF MEDICINE, UCLA, 1997 said: "Neither the continuing nor the intermittent marijuana smokers exhibited any significantly different rates of decline in [lung function] as compared with those individuals who have never smoked marijuana."

Seriously, Before the 20th century... Marijuana was Medicine, Marijuana was used for manufacturing and other purposes... even if you look at the so called scientific facts... Marijuana is no more harmful than tobacco and no long term side effects... it's just that the Taboo has already taken a very deep hold (Thanks to Corporate propaganda and propaganda movies like Reefer Madness) that Weed is harmful (which is NOT)... despite presenting the facts.

"POOF" (Sits down and Waits)

[Blue Lemma]

Mugen, I would be more surprised if you DIDN'T know someone who was busted for marijuana

I have mixed feelings on the issue. On one hand, I've never done pot, crack, etc, nor do I want to (and yes, I realize there is a distinction between different illegal drugs.) On the other hand, my general view is that if you're not hurting anyone else, who cares what you do? I suppose you could argue that given that the War On Drugs exists and consuming marijuana can contribute to killings in Mexico, it hurts others. Then again, you could argue that's exactly why they should stop the War On Drugs or let people grow their own.

As you can see, I'm talking from a US standpoint here.

The state I'm in is notorious for being full of potheads. Like California, we have legalized medical marijuana. While I'm in favor of it in principle, I have problems with the actual implementation. For instance, there is NO WAY everyone who has a medical marijuana card here or in California has a legitimate medical issue that requires it. I doubt even half the people who have cards do. California has about 3000+ dispensaries if I'm not mistaken. I can't shake the feeling that it's mostly a giant farce and people are just looking to bake. I'm also sick of the whole "420 friendly" thing, and people who say "420 friendly but can't stand drugs" (uhhhh okay.... )

The whole thing's just annoying to me on every side Blah!

(side note: I wouldn't be surprised if political issues are banned from forum discussion in the future since such discussions are prone to excessive drama, hurt, personal attacks, and all that good stuff. Same for religious issues. We've had some discussion on it but haven't decided anything.)

[Aleema]

Man, the supporters for the legalization of weed are really loud and ... verbose. I get strong vibes of children who have to explain to mommy why getting a BB gun for Christmas is totally cool and could be educational no look I made you a pie chart with facts and everything. Most of the arguments for its legalization are weak and obscure, and we know not at all the reason you're asking for it. You want to smoke pot. That's about it.

The fact of the matter is that: inhaling any type of smoke is bad for you. Lungs are not where smoke is supposed to go. Smoking will never, ever, ever be OK, no matter what it is. If you're willing to trade that for something else, that your choice. That's how it works with cigarettes. But it's not harmless, not by a long shot. Also, the PSAs are right: you do become lethargic and just generally not fun to be around (unless you're lightin' up too). So count "sedentary activity" right up there with the negative effects.

I think this is one of those things where, since it's already illegal, it should stay that way. A clusterf**k awaits us upon legalization that our soccer-mom society isn't prepared for. Alcohol and cigarettes are legal because it's human tradition to screw ourselves up. Alcohol will probably be around for almost forever, since it's a social tool. But you see cigarettes losing the battle every day: more and more places are making it a horrible thing. Outright banning something is going to end poorly and get reversed (like prohibition), but making it taboo will certainly see the numbers drop. If marijuana was legal, there would be an age limit, and it'd still be very much illegal to the many people who use and support it.

On a personal level, I've lost several friends to this drug. My friends became ... uncool. They were suddenly very passive and uncaring about most everything, including their friends. Their self-pleasure was the most important thing to them, and they just didn't want to do anything (that is, except talk about how weed should be legalized). They changed as people, and I didn't like who they became. It's basically turning the "off" switch on life. You would rather be dreaming than living. Sometimes the most awesome stuff happens to us when we're dreaming, and I love my dreams, but ... real life is pretty damn cool, too.

tl;dr: I personally don't like marijuana, but ... I agree that what you do in your own home is not my decision. It would just be too much of a hassle to legalize and would give it a much worse reputation, I think.

[Fawn]

I disagree, Aleema. It's a thrill for some people to do illegal things, hence why teenagers love to binge drink themselves to death. If it was legalized, not only would those Mexican drug wars (over pot, at least) most likely decrease or even stop, but people wouldn't get that thrill of doing illegal stuff. There may be stricter prices on weed too, making it not such a profitable illegal venture.

Smoke is harmful, yes, but the people who already do weed are most likely not going to stop. (Just like the many people who drink and smoke other substances) not to mention there's other ways to ingest pot besides smoking (Brownies, cupcakes... the list goes on). It's a part of their life, especially since they want to defend it. Accepting that, letting them live and not clogging up our prisons with such people wouldn't harm anyone. In fact it may save you and I some tax money, since there won't be so many people in jail to feed and clothe.

Honestly if anything should be illegal it should be alcohol, that stuff can really mess you up- it can make people violent and cause a long list of illnesses. People often get addicted and need to keep drinking to feel okay, injuring their internal organs further. But it's not illegal.

I know I can't persuade the great and powerful Aleema, but just wanted to throw my logic out there ;P

[LVUER]

Weed, Marijuana, Cannabis, Ganja... they are more or less same thing, right? There are always a bunch pros and cons of having them either legalized or not. But perhaps the question shouldn't be thrown with you as the subject... but rather your son or daughter. What do you think/how do you feels, when your children have grown up (not considered minor anymore) and they decided to use those substance? And when you forbids them, they say "But Dad/Mom, they are legal, I'm not breaking any law here..." Perhaps some of you will say, "Then get the hell out of my house" or "Why do I even care? Go die by yourself..." but not me.

I don't mind if we have some less strict laws regulating marijuana usage for medication purpose... but legalizing them? Nu-uh, I will never agree to that.

I also never mind on law that makes tobacco illegal (and I never touch it). Those who says "It's my body, I can do whatever I want. So mind your business" is just a big BS. How we can just mind our own business when you're killing us by having us inhale those smoke and makes us passive smokers (that even more dangerous that active smokers). And don't forget the damages you will do (or done) to your own off-spring (and giving them bad examples too) which could lead US to even more problems.

I can't really say the same for alcohol though... I never drink any alcohol (not even wine). But AFAIK, alcohol doesn't do any damage to your body if you drink it occasionally and only those with low alcohol concentration (like wine for example). Drinking wine even have some benefit to your body and needed to fully enjoy some meal courses (like wiping/washing the steak flavor from your mouth so every bite of your delicious steak will always like the first bite... which is the most delicious bite).

And don't forget that in non-tropical countries, especially like Russia that always cold all year round, alcohol is needed to warm your body (Russian who never drink vodka is not a Russian... or so they say, is that right?). I think the cost of warming entire house/rooms 24/7 all year long would be crazy...

Since I never drink alcohol and since I'm not exactly a social type of person... I can't say much about alcohol role in social relationship. Alcohol makes you more honest when you're drunk, right? ^_^

Oh, and don't forget one more thing. Marijuana and tobacco is really addictive, right? So that's really bad... I don't think I need to explain that, no?

[Aleema]

I know I can't persuade the great and powerful Aleema, but just wanted to throw my logic out there ;P

What? No, it's okay to post what you think. It really has nothing to with me (or my stubbornness). This is an ethical thing that probably noone will shake their belief on. I doubt I could persuade mugen from his cannabis, just putting my 2 cents in an open discussion.

Also, like I said, there is going to be an age limit (at least 18) on weed, meaning that it would still be illegal for most teenagers, so that wouldn't stop. It would just make it more accessible, or maybe less if the dealers go away and it's all store controlled. That's pretty weird to think that a grocery store would ever carry it. =P

I also don't drink, so I don't particularly see alchohol as worthy of legality either. Going to jail for weed is a bit much and I do have to remind myself it's illegal sometimes since we hear about it a lot, but I think its culture is only doing so well because of it. It's likely that if it were legal, people would blame it for anything bad a person does (like ignorant people already do to video games), there would be a steep rise in support groups, prevention PSAs, medicals tests, and everything else that would "propogate" against it, teens would still be doing it illegally, there would still be unsafe/unregulated stuff (I know there's different "qualities"), the spotlight will be drawn to the few people who abuse the legalization or make mistakes ("I got the entire kindergarten class high!"), and worst of all, everyone will become goddamn potheads. =P That last one is just me being jaded.

Just surmising. I'm a bit exhausted on the marijuana debate. No one convinces each other of anything. Hence your "yes its harmful but they won't stop" sentence. There should be both sides presented in every argument. Otherwise it isn't one!

[Rewritten Ennui]

Marijuana is always a hot topic for debate in California, which I happen to live in I'm still a young high school kid, so you can imagine all the drug awareness campaigns that I have to sit through each year. The anti-drug advocates don't outright tell us, "DRUGS ARE EVIL AND YOU SHOULDN'T USE THEM!" Instead, they regurgitate a whole list of effects that anyone can experience if they choose to use them. They give us the straight facts, but children have been taught the negative connotations of illegal drugs. Marijuana, crystal meth, ecstasy, and whatever new drugs people are using nowadays will always have that negative label pasted on them, and that won't be changing in a good while.

However, I have nothing against medical marijuana. Marijuana leaves the user feeling hungry, which is useful when a patient has a lack of appetite. Everyone has to eat, and malnutrition is the last thing that a doctor wants to deal with when it can easily be prevented. Marijuana also has a variety of other uses such as for pain relief. Everyone has experienced some sort of physical pain before, right? Marijuana can relieve some of that pain temporarily. I'm not saying that everyone should use the stuff, but it can be helpful if used correctly.

So to put it simply, I am against drugs when it is used for recreation. When a substance has a medical use, then by all means use it! Substance abuse cannot and will never be controlled by the government, because it is up to the individual to make intelligent choices.

[Crocosquirrel]

Maybe if we put the money people spend on recreational weed into supporting amateur VN makers...

Make and play VNs, not weed!

[ririruetoo]

I think it should be legailzed. It's proven that weed isn't as harmful to you as cigerettes, the big tobacco companies are sproting lies. Anyways, I know plenty of people who spoke medical pot and I really think they're are worst drugs out there that the cops need to be worrying about. (Crack, heorin)

Quote from family guy~

[Brian and Peter are pulled over by policeman, the body of Quagmire's cat in the backseat. Peter is drunk and covered in blood stains. Two policeman exit the car and situate themselves on either side of Peter's car]
Policeman #1: What do we got, partner?
Policeman #2: [Bends over and inspects the inside of the car] Empty alcohol containers, the driver's inebriated and covered in blood, he's got scratches on his face and arms, there's a blood-soaked corpse in the backseat, got shovels in there, and a hand-drawn map titled This is where we'll hide the body.
Policeman #1: Well, that all seems fine. Sorry to bother you sir.
[A small bag of weed falls from Brian's collar onto his lap. Policeman #2 notices]
Policeman #2: Pot! [Withdrawing gun and aiming it at Brian] Small amount of pot!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[papillon]

To the best of my knowledge, it's less harmful than several things which are already legal, and a lot of the arguments against making it legal are based on weird personal moral judgments. A lot of us were raised under some pretty heavy "SAY NO TO DRUGS" cultural imperatives which helpfully left out details like who, exactly, gets to determine what is and isn't a "drug".

I'm a caffeine addict. It's a very mild addiction and it doesn't have much impact on anyone other than me, but it IS a mind-altering substance.

Alcohol causes HUGE problems for society and is a major factor in most violent injuries in many locations, not to mention a lot of deaths. It ruins some people's lives. But at the same time, while I basically don't drink, I appreciate being able to go buy some wine for cooking, or some kahlua for the rare boozyhotchocolate that I do like. Lots and lots of people drink in moderation and cause no problems. Lots of people get drunk on their own time and don't bother anyone else. I can't be in favor of a flat ban even though I really do not like boozing.

Some people just want to pursue pleasure and are interested in taking chemical shortcuts to that - and sometimes it seems like the legislators are more interested in banning PLEASURE than in preventing harm. If you ban one substance, they'll go chase another, which may be even more dangerous. People do some insane things trying to get high. I have the strong suspicion that it's better to let high-seekers have access to something reasonably safe and well-regulated to do it with.


(As for "420 Friendly But No Drugs", it's silly with no further explanation, but there ARE distinct differences to lviing with someone who's got a medical marijuana card and goes off to smoke sometimes and living with someone who leaves needles lying around or someone whose habit of choice involves interacting with the dangerous kind of drugseller.)

[Hayzel]

All I can say is that I've only see it destroy peoples lives, and I've met a lot of people who use it. None of them are happy, though they are convinced because they have the pot they can be (again despite the fact that their lives are falling to shambles around them.)

[Sapphi]

Funny you should post this, Mugen, because I've also been hatching a plot for a satirical-ish VN about weed. (It will be a long time coming though.)

I didn't learn the history of medicinal marijuana until about a year ago when I researched it for a paper. Turns out it was used in many cultures for a lot of different medical purposes. Did I learn that in grade school? No, I had D.A.R.E. (anti-drug assn.) come to my classroom and give demonstrations which lumped weed, meth, heroin, and crack all into the same category of VERY BAD FOR YOU.

Obviously the effects of meth compared to the effects of weed on the human body are different. But kids aren't going to understand that and so the "Reefer Madness" stereotype is perpetuated. Even worse, when those kids do end up trying weed, they will think that D.A.R.E. was full of it and end up trying other (more addictive and dangerous) illegal drugs. They say weed is a gateway drug... I wonder why...

My big problems with weed being illegal, especially for medicinal use:

• 1. Instead of relying on a natural plant we can grow ourselves for free, we have to spend lots of money on synthetic medicine.
  
  2. Those synthetic meds are being abused by partying teens and addicts and many of them have worse side effects than marijuana.
  
  3. The hypocrisy of alcohol being legal and marijuana being illegal. If it's a crime to possess weed, shouldn't it be a crime to drink alcohol? Apparently, all the people killed by drunk drivers and all the domestic abuse fueled by alcoholism, is somehow less horrible than lazy stoners.