Lemma Soft Forums

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: The Post Office is the best analogy I can think of. Letters and packages can be sent by anyone without proof of their identity. While the Post Office has legitimate uses, it is also used by criminals to transport and move illegal contraband across state lines. Unless something is overtly suspicious about the package or letter, however, it is impossible to distinguish between mail that is illegal and mail that is legal. Indeed, illegal pornography used to be distributed this way, and drugs still are. The Post Office cannot open and screen every letter and package, but their business enables criminals to conduct theirs. Does that make the Post Office "criminal operators" with the "malicious intent" to distribute illegal items (to use the RIAA's words for Megaupload)?

The post office also has a large division devoted entirely to investigating crimes that take place within the mail.

I don't know much about how their job works, mind you. But they do employ a lot of people who are trying to deal with criminal use of the mail. They don't just sit back and shrug.

Again - I don't expect any site provider to shut down all piracy, that's impossible, and requiring it would be both insane and evil. But if one actively desires to be less helpful to pirates, it's not that difficult to be more proactive. Have someone whose job it is to look for these things spend the thirty seconds necessary to turn up thousands of inappropriate links and kill them.

I'm not sure that should make a legal difference in this case because I don't think they were legally required to BE proactive.

papillon wrote: The post office also has a large division devoted entirely to investigating crimes that take place within the mail.

I don't know much about how their job works, mind you. But they do employ a lot of people who are trying to deal with criminal use of the mail. They don't just sit back and shrug.

That was my point. They are actively looking for illegal mail and packages, have a whole government team devoted to it in a business were people have to physically walk up and hand them something, and they still don't catch all the illegal mail or even MOST of it.

papillon wrote:They don't just sit back and shrug.

Neither did Megaupload. Pirate sites were always complaining about links being taken down on Megaupload itself. Megaupload would even post a message: "This file has been deleted because it is a copyright infringement or a violation of our terms of agreement."

papillon wrote: Again - I don't expect any site provider to shut down all piracy, that's impossible, and requiring it would be both insane and evil. But if one actively desires to be less helpful to pirates, it's not that difficult to be more proactive. Have someone whose job it is to look for these things spend the thirty seconds necessary to turn up thousands of inappropriate links and kill them.

But again, HOW? And it takes a lot longer than 30 seconds to "turn up thousands of inappropriate links and kill them." I discussed in a previous post the difficulties of generating such a list and the high probability it would nuke innocent uploads. How long do you think your filesharing business would last if you routinely nuked legimate corporate files people where sharing for business? Because Megaupload did more corporate filesharing than Dropbox does, the link to that evidence is further back in this very thread.

And Megaupload had 50 million users a day. Let's say just 1% of those users were uploading new files. That is 500K new files everyday. Nearly 21,000 new files an hour. 347 new files a minute. 6 new files a SECOND. Even an enormous staff of human employees devoted to nothing but searching and validating files would not be able to keep up. And the backlog builds every single day. If you weren't able to screen all 500K new files today, you'll just have to add them to the new 500K you'll get tomorrow. And I am willing to bet that a lot more than 1% of their users were uploading new files everyday. So go ahead multiple all those numbers.

So sites like these must depend on users and others to alert them when they have received an illegal file. Then a company like Megaupload must verify that the file in question is indeed illegal and not just some vindictive emailer scuttling or sabotaging someone's business presentation or project. It is a logistical nightmare.

And I don't see how sites like these could be less helpful to pirates without being less helpful to everyone. And you said it yourself - shutting down piracy using the service completely is impossible. So filesharing sites can either make it more difficult for pirates to upload material, but hurt their own business in the process (knowing the pirates will succeed in uploading illegal material anyway), or they can do what they do now and provide easy and quick services and take down pirated material when it comes to their attention.

I don't think people understand the network code, volume, and logistics involved in something like this. Telling the filesharing sites to "try a little harder" isn't going to work. I firmly believe that until super intelligent AI programs are invented and commonplace that CAN put intelligent eyes on every file every second, the filesharing companies are doing all they can do.

I just lost my account that had all my family pictures and work files. This is terrible news indeed. I understand why they did it, I just wish they recognize the legal users who need a safe cyberlocker for their everyday work. I lost months of work and priceless memories (pictures that I'm not sure I have at home). Jeez, what can I do now?

mugenjohncel wrote: I do... and so are countless layman people like me who depend on them to pass large files "legally"... especially in my case where I have to toss back and forth large amounts of files to and from clients and to my fabricators and architects and most of the times they happen in a hurry and for business people like me... "time is money" and can't be bothered by the technicalities such as FTP transfers or dividing content via several emails and so forth... I also love the convenience of having a user friendly interface to accomplish such tasks...

"STAYS" (Not gonna go anywhere for now)

My company hasn't been using its own FTP in years since we switched to YouSendit and/or Dropbox. You should too. You can also track delivery, time the expirations, and so forth.

Those sites were specifically made for organized cloud-storage and backup. Not so Megaupload.

applegirl wrote: I just lost my account that had all my family pictures and work files. This is terrible news indeed. I understand why they did it, I just wish they recognize the legal users who need a safe cyberlocker for their everyday work. I lost months of work and priceless memories (pictures that I'm not sure I have at home). Jeez, what can I do now?

I feel for you - that's really annoying >_<

This is one of the issues I have with the trend of shifting everything over to "the cloud" and service-based computing. You don't really own or maintain your files/data anymore. You rely on a company to do it, and you're out of luck if they shut down. This could be for economic reasons, technical reasons (like hackers or a software/hardware problem on their end), or legal reasons, like in this case.

I guess the moral is the same one PyTom constantly promotes: Always make backups.

To do backups, is much safer/better services are Dropbox or Sugarsync (both free until 2Gb of content, but in case of Dropbox you can even get a bigger amount through referrals). No offense but I am surprised people thought to use a site with such a bad reputation like megaupload to make safe backups!!!
Unless really nobody here knew that megaupload was (one of the many) paradise of warez stuff? Don't tell me you never heard of megavideo too (same company, same servers, same illegal stuff uploaded).

In the case of Megaupload, there were probably multiple issues making that site a target:

1) Megaupload had a bit of a reputation for hosting illegal stuff. Some people complained when I uploaded Adrift there because they were afraid they could catch a few viruses or trojans by downloading from MU.

2) Megaupload's founder Kim Dotcom, also known as Kim Schmitz, has a history of illegal activities. He was sentenced for several crimes in 2002, mainly for fraud around the New Economy sector. He continued his not-quite-legit business activities in the years that followed, and it doesn't surprise me that someone cracked down on him once again. Also, that they got him for money laundering and not copyright infringement. Al Capone was finally arrested for tax evasion, wasn't he?

3) Being probably the most popular filesharing site, it's not surprising that they went after Megaupload first. It was probably the most visible one out there.

That much said, it's a shame that it went down. The service itself (providing free uploading space for everyone) shouldn't be illegal, and I fear for the other portals now as well.

Ok I calmed down now, sorry about what I posted yesterday
I understand that some people were really unaware of the bad reputation of megaupload, and I agree about this:

Taleweaver wrote: That much said, it's a shame that it went down. The service itself (providing free uploading space for everyone) shouldn't be illegal, and I fear for the other portals now as well.

to be honest, I think that the chances of other sites going down are pretty slim, in particular rapidshare and hotfile, for some simple but important differences:
1. they don't host streaming video of pirate stuff, while megaupload/megavideo did
2. they have a very simple DMCA procedure, just sent them an email. megaupload required you to fill a form, with captcha, made on purpose to inconvenience the LEGAL owner. I always found ironic that you could upload easily, but to take down a file was a PITA
3. while there are illegal files even in those other sites, I found with pleasure that they do the simple hash-tag search mentioned before, so if people just reupload the same file, even changing the name, they automatically delete it. Megaupload was of course ignoring this.

So, I think if you use some filesharing sites with better reputation like rapidshare/hotfile you shouldn't have problems for game demos. Or even better, use download.com (I think you can still upload freewares there) which is 100% safe.
For backups, use the already mentioned dropbox / sugarsync or many other cloud backup system. Of course the paid services will provide more guarantees, but there are many with free plans with still lot of space.

Gmail is actually a pretty good way to back up files too. (You get around 7 gigs free per account) Just email them to yourself.

I know Megaupload have bad rep and have lots of pirated files, but still lots of people upload legal files and use Megaupload regularly (for legal purpose). I don't think they should take down entire Megaupload just like that. At least run it again after all this mess cleared up.

And people afraid other hosting sites will be taken down like Megaupload too.

I don't care if they take down other Mega though... like Megavideo or Megaporn.

jack_norton wrote:So, I think if you use some filesharing sites with better reputation like rapidshare/hotfile you shouldn't have problems for game demos.

Except when they delete your files due to inactivity

Perhaps we should all start using something like multiupload.com and upload our files to many different filehosters...

Oh, and things that make me choose Megaupload over other hosting sites:
1. Fast
2. Free
3. Easy
4. Use-able with download manager

There are reasons why people choose Megaupload. Not for pirated things only.

LVUER wrote: And people afraid other hosting sites will be taken down like Megaupload too.

I AGREE :O I'm still kinda scared if mediafire will be shut down... It's my favourite file hoster.

I'm still confused how the pirate's bay is still working. (It is, right??)
Just from the name, Isn't it obvious?

I think a good rule of thumb is: If it looks sketchy or probably relies mostly on piracy to maintain its profitability, don't trust it.

Megaupload always "felt" wrong to me, as in it seemed really icky, like a virus was going to pop out at you any second. For that reason I don't think I've downloaded any of the ren'ai games made here from there.

And as for backups, remember physical backups! Flash drives! CD/DVDs! USB hard drives! They are all your friends <3

tuna_sushi wrote:
I'm still confused how the pirate's bay is still working. (It is, right??)
Just from the name, Isn't it obvious?

^THIS is almost the exact same thing my friend screamed when we were already too frustrated.

"Sure. Get rid of megaupload and let pirate bay run free! Stupid bastards."

Just gahhh! Me and one of my best friends, lost the video we made as a goodbye gift to our other best friend who moved to another country, and when we realize that we currently have no means of retrieving it anymore and we didn't have the common sense to keep the copy. We just... We just... GAH! Now I had to purchase a data recovery software thingy with hopes that I can get it from my friend's recycle bin. D: