Fuwanovel... the worst thing for the industry?

[Blane Doyle]

Somewhat... amusing (?) note: Through Google searching for more info, I found a still active 4Chan topic (which will likely 404 in a few hours).

Even the vast majority of the people there, even the ones who admitted they pirate games more than buy them, think this is bad and more than a bit... well, dumb, when they look at her reasoning. Admittedly, the thread was filled with people fighting and the normal jerkiness I see and avoid on the site (which is why I normally stay to the picture threads), but one thing was clear:

One of the biggest sites for fantranslations and piracy has a general consensus that THIS SITE is a poorly thought out bad idea, and the creator's line of thinking is more than a bit skewed. If that doesn't say something, I don't know what will. 0_0

[Mink]

Well, Even Evil Has It's Standards. And entitled much?

@J. Datie: Pfft, I'm taking Chinese; the thought of learning kanji doesn't even phase me. (And I don't even think learning Japanese just for that is BAD, but a lot of effort just for the sake of comics and games. :\)

And I suppose I'm a terrible person, because if I was able to competently speak/read/write Japanese* and someone wanted me to do a fan translation, I'd tell them to learn it like I did. >8|

Darn kids today; wanting everything handed to them. I had to WORK for things.

*I'll work on that after Chinese

[Blane Doyle]

........................................

I... I can't even comprehend that... she contradicts herself so much... can... really, can someone explain that to me? I honestly want to know what she means.

I mean, that kinda makes sense, but at the same time not really. Is she basically saying that by making it clear we are pirating and will pirate them that she thinks that will show Japanese companies we really want the games even if we have to get them through illegal means, and therefore they will be more willing to have them be licensed? Because that is what I am getting from it and I think I am wrong. But if that is what she is saying...

What?

[Mink]

I think in TvTropes this would be 'Insane Troll Logic'. And yeah, it also reads like she's saying, "It's okay to pirate because it can be hard to get and expensive!"

One: DEPENDING on what country you're in, I can at least understand it. Maybe. Depending on what country you're actually in. Two: save your money if it's that expensive.

[LVUER]

One: DEPENDING on what country you're in, I can at least understand it.

THIS.
I'm not implying anything, but to get a legal commercial VN in my country... well, it's IMPOSSIBLE. It will never ever get through the custom. Why? Because it's poooooorn!!! Try buying one and the next week you will get an invitation to court for smuggling porn into the country... That if you could cover the price and shipping fee which is enormous (due to weaker currency rate) aaaand the freaking custom tax which is very very expensive (could be 200% of the original game cost)... yay, tax!

It's also very expensive to buy legal anime or other movies... why? Because they tax it per minute. So the tax could be a whopping 200/300% of the original cost (once again, yay custom tax). Still not counting the shipping fee. Do you think we're going broadcast it in a commercial TV channel or something?

Though I still don't understand for people that live in way better country that could easily (and relatively cheaper) legal goods, but still use pirated things.

[Blane Doyle]

I can understand that sort of situation as well. I won't think anything much of people individually pirating things, especially if they honestly have no other possible way of getting them. That is their own personal business, not mine, so I take no issue with that.

But to live in, say, America, where it is much cheaper, much easier, and we get them licensed for less coin, and if they have money to spare (I know not everyone can afford them here either, but some are just lazy)... not so much. I think that is your stance too, correct?

Me, I would just rather have the market where it is rather than make it worse than it is already. Officially translated novels are, by testimony of a friend, much easier to get a hold of and use either way... so why someone would encourage the harder way while thinking it will help companies see "hey, we LOVE your games even if we are not paying for them, let the companies license it" is beyond me. (I have already said the companies will most likely think to the contrary... judging from Aaeru's comments everywhere, though, she is convinced that it will make them even more interested, and that English companies will spring up everywhere to fill the market).

On the bright side, she has also stated that no OFFICIALLY TRANSLATED games will be on the site, only fan translations. ... yay?

[DaFool]

opinion from Hinano whom I respect very much and is pretty much the otome expert (emphasis mine)

Just thought I’d thrown in my 2 cents in regards to otome gaming. Most GOOD otome games are now PSP and PS2 only. I don’t know if you can easily apply patches for those things as you can for PC games. Sadly most otome PC games are R-18 garbage full of stupid rape crap that nobody in their right might likes.

As far as Japanese companies are concerned, yes it’s true they really only care about numbers. In fact trying to convince Japanese people of anything is difficult. I can say this from working at 2 Japanese companies. They are VERY DIFFICULT to change, especially if the one in charge is some old geezer whose ways are set in stone. No one will step up to that person because that will make them stick out like a sore thumb. Nobody will ever please the Japanese companies which is why the most important thing is for companies HERE to take care of everything and just present the “final product/proposal” to the Japanese staff.

Some companies will be willing to work with you, others will tell you to f yourself, that’s just how Japan works. I couldn’t exactly understand the point of your post other than saying you just want to freely translate games. Go for it honestly. If you aren’t making money from it, I don’t see why any translating companies should give a crap. If they don’t like it, they should do what Crunchy Roll did with fansubs and put in the effort to simulcast fansubbed episodes before the fansubbers can get to them.

AS far as otome is concerned I think Aksys is taking a big step by releasing Hakuoki for audiences in the west. Their translation is probably crappier than anything you guys do, but I can tell you a LOT of people I know have pre-ordered the limited edition already as it’s translated for them and it doesn’t cost and arm and a leg which is why its up there. HOWEVER, these are most people who are already aware of what otome games are thanks to things like the starry sky patch & the Hatoful Boyfriend patch. So that’s proof right there that translated patches do indeed help but as far as otome games are concerned, the best games are PSP and I’ve not seen anyone try patch translating those (maybe it’s not possible? maybe its too hard? I don’t know.)

Good luck with your project but sometimes I feel like I wish you guys would be paid for your efforts instead or use the effort to actually start your own company and try licensing games and prove that they do have a place here in the west. I don’t know about eroge fandom but I can surely say that there’s an otome fandom outside Japan. Sorry for the tl;dr (´･ω･`；)

So my conclusion:

Otome EVN creators publishing on PC have practically a free pass to continue to rule the market in the forseeable future! The only thing to worry about is if all of a sudden everyone has a PS Vita and all the otome games work on it.

It might be nice to bring back the spirit of al|together and court the Japanese indies (like ZeroZigen) once again. Stuck up companies like Key will continue to demand one million dollar licensing fees, so screw them and go for the little guys. I remember somebody mentioned a while back there are a TON now of really polished titles either free or selling for 525 yen on DLsite, otome even.

[Blue Lemma]

Also, SOPA/PIPA must NOT happen.

Yeah, I can see why they'd be VERY concerned about that one.

Blog translation: We know what's best for you and your IP, game creators, and we'll rise to the higher calling of distributing your games without permission from you! kthxbye

[Anna]

Did she just delete 3 pinned topics in 'Fan Translation (serious talk)'? O_o...

edit: Yup, she did. Even more than expected :')

how it was before:

[Blane Doyle]

http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/201 ... downloads/

It seems she has decided to NOT host the games, only the patches.

Now this? This I am ok with. This, I am just perfectly fine with. If she were to also link to websites to import the games, that would be even BETTER. Though I still see many issues with her personal goals here.
Yes, this will certainly gather interest in the genre, which is one thing she wants... but I still don't think it will do what she really wants, which is show Japanese companies we want their games (if she linked to import sites, though, that would probably help that cause).
I also like the idea of having linked reviews, instead of just ratings.

Though when her preview links show a download of 2gigs (and no patch is THAT big) I think she only changed her mind and tone after she started to post on 4Chan and subsequently get insulted and bashed (rather harshly actually...).

She also apologized for her accusatory remarks against JAST, but that's her opinion on them so that never bothered me personally.

But I also don't think it will "recreate the community" like she wants. Change it, certainly, but for better or worse? There are bound to be arguments over buying and playing the official translations and sticking to fan ones in the end. Though a forum specifically for VNs in general is a great idea, this seems to be for fan trans only. This could just cause a deeper rift in the end. And while I do like her stance on "how you said it, not what you said" I doubt that, with what we have seen, she will stand by that.

(Though, on a final note, I am a for an otome game scene. I thought it was Otoge shortened, not Otome-ge though...)

[Anna]

http://visualnovelaer.wordpress.com/201 ... downloads/

Whoo, that made my day :'D! I am so happy to see this. I think it's fine without the piracy, let's see what becomes of it.

[Strum]

I guess the time has come to put down those flaming torches and pitchforks, the witchhunt is over. Also, everything people have seen in those screenshots like torrents and stuff are probably all fake photoshopped images. The idea is to let people see how everything looks.

[Blane Doyle]

Well, they are Photoshoped images, that much is certain. But when I was reading the now deleted 4Chan threads I saw her, at one time, saying she WAS going to provide downloads.

Who knows now. *shrug*

[PyTom]

Fan translations (and other fanworks) operate in a very strange moral area. Original games - like those that we make - operate in clear legal territory. As long as the work is original, or uses other works that we have a license to, these games are clearly legal. We pretty much all know what's acceptable, and what's not.

Fanworks are very different. According to the law, all fanwork is illegal. Distributing a patch is no more legal than distributing a patched game.

So it's no wonder you get issues like this on a semi-regular basis. Once everyone is making up their own rules - and society accepts or ignores this - you're going to have people making up different rules. It's weird that people who accept fansubs don't accept patched games. (There's a distinction to be made - fansubs are usually of broadcast shows - but it's a thin one.) So drama is inevitable.

By contrast, _our_ drama is totally different.

I think the eventual solution will be for congress to somehow deal with fan works, probably by expanding fair use to cover more of what people consider fair use. But that will take a generational change - I don't expect it to happen until people who grew up with the Internet start becoming part of government. (That's still a few years off.)

[Blane Doyle]

Hmn... you are right PyTom, you bring up excellent points...

Even without the direct game downloads, in this vast grey area, is this new plan any better? I'm not sure anymore.

I wish fair use and the like was more... well, lenient and more clear. With what we have it is all so confusing.