Get that thing off your chest... Now...

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Sapphi's argument is actually the defense I would go with. It is honestly better than anything else you could come up with at this point to defend yourself.

But isn't everyone also missing a rather obvious counterpoint to all this as well? E.g. Don't be associated with a group of people who are willing to cheat? Because that was probably Nekomiira's ultimate undoing in the teacher's eyes. You got the same wrong answer (written in) as the people next to you who cheated? Benefit of the doubt might still be given. You are FRIENDS with the two people the teacher KNOWS cheated, AND you got the same written-in wrong answer? Well, that's WAY more than just suspicious from a teacher's viewpoint.

When I was in high school, I had a girl who sat behind me in math class that constantly tried to cheat off my test and quiz papers. She'd even complain and harass me if I didn't make it easy for her. So one week I just made it REALLY easy for her to cheat off me, letting her get ALL my answers. The next week we got our quizzes and test papers back. I received all A's, she had a zero on every single one. She thought the teacher had caught her cheating and punished her. I had actually been doing every quiz and test twice during that week - once with all wrong answers for her to copy, and then erasing those and writing in the correct answers before turning in the papers. She never tried cheating off me again.

[Sapphi]

But isn't everyone also missing a rather obvious counterpoint to all this as well? E.g. Don't be associated with a group of people who are willing to cheat?

Well, yes and no...
I'm sure being friends with the cheaters was the extra bit of grease needed to assume Nekomiira's wrong answer was the result of cheating, but even if it looks bad, that doesn't make the teacher's position defensible... We also can't know how often they resort to cheating. What if it was the first time? How was Nekomiira supposed to predict that they would do such a thing? But more importantly, why would the burden fall on Nekomiira to play ethics police and pick her friends according to whether or not they cheat on tests to avoid stuff like this? I agree that it's the smart and proactive thing to do, but I hardly think it's a significant black mark when you compare it to the fact that it's the teacher's responsibility to catch the cheaters in the act, and not jump to unfounded, unprovable conclusions that result in potentially innocent students having to repeat whole courses. And I don't know about you, but I don't pick my friends according to their test-taking habits. I don't usually even pay attention to what other people are doing while I'm taking tests, because I'm focusing on my own.

I have sympathy for you, Nekomiira. When I was in junior high my psychotic literature teacher decided that I should be held responsible to clean the entire messy hallway because a piece of paper with my name on it (had fallen out of my locker like, just that day) was the piece she happened to pick up. In front of the class she told me to go clean the hall. Then while I'm out there, humiliated and confused and picking up other people's garbage that the school janitors get paid to pick up anyway, she comes out and attempts to defend herself like "I know you didn't do all this. Yours was just the first piece I picked up." Yeah, no. That makes no sense.

(She was just vindictive cause I was one of the top students in the school and refused to join her after hours Scholastic Bowl team. She even hinted that she was going to blackmail me at one point. Came up to me in the hall and said, "Do you want to get an A in Reading? Join Scholastic Bowl." Dead serious look on her face. Ironically, I might actually have considered joining if she hadn't been so crazy... Oh and by the way... I was already getting an A. Like an A+, because it was my freaking best subject. So she was definitely threatening to drop my grade.)

Anyway I'm rooting for you... walk into that office and tell 'em who's boss

I had actually been doing every quiz and test twice during that week - once with all wrong answers for her to copy, and then erasing those and writing in the correct answers before turning in the papers. She never tried cheating off me again.

That's awesome. Occasionally I would notice people trying to cheat off of me and contemplated doing this, but I think ultimately I didn't because I would feel too guilty for purposely wrecking their grade. I just tried to hunch over a little bit more...

Now that I think about it, there might have been one time I did it vindictively to somebody who was mean to me... but I can't remember... junior high was a bad time in my life (had MUCH to do with my teachers and school environment) and most of the memories have since been pushed down and locked carefully away where they can't hurt me. >_>

[Lekhaka]

Hm...I'm doubt Neko would have known that these friends would eventually do something like this when they befriended each other. Not sure what brooding over one's choice of company would accomplish here. First and foremost Neko should firmly insist on innocence. If needed, then explain the more detailed logic of how the teacher created a witch-trial style of accusation that can't even be escaped if one were innocent.

"I did not cheat. There is no actual reason for anyone to believe I cheated; the teacher is only making guesses on tangential observations. Since I make many friends with people who sit next to me, the situation is already set and would seem the same regardless of what happened. So the observation that I'm friends with these people doesn't give you a reason, at all. What's the ratio of guilty-to-falsely-convicted that you would deem acceptable? 2 guilty for every 1 innocent? Is 4:1 more reasonable? 8:1? This weak observation definitely does not give you strong enough reason to punish me without taking the huge chance that you are hurting an innocent soul. We can do a probability calculation if you'd like. It would also tell you how many innocent people you will punish, if you were to apply this policy evenly throughout the school population..."

Again, that's if the principal actually seem like the person to listen to reason. If that does not seem the case, use the Dark Arts of Persuasion, or whatever other method you can.

Aw, that's kind of mean...

Yes, and I'm serious. Whoever did this witch-trial thing is mean. They should get their own dose of mean. Even better if you can walk away with a cool movie-like line, such as "Oh, did you lose your job? Sorry I couldn't hear your reasonable objections to disproportionate punishment over the sound of my awesome poetic justice."

[LateWhiteRabbit]

But more importantly, why would the burden fall on Nekomiira to play ethics police and pick her friends according to whether or not they cheat on tests to avoid stuff like this? I agree that it's the smart and proactive thing to do, but I hardly think it's a significant black mark when you compare it to the fact that it's the teacher's responsibility to catch the cheaters in the act, and not jump to unfounded, unprovable conclusions that result in potentially innocent students having to repeat whole courses.

In my mind, it's the crux of the entire problem. Guilt by association is something you often run into out in the big world - it's why mothers harp on their children to choose friends wisely (Heck, it's why we shoot the guys wearing the same uniforms in war, regardless of what we don't know about them personally as human beings.) Now, I'm not saying Nekmiira's friends are awful or bad or anything - I know nothing about them besides the fact they cheated on a test while sitting next to her. But obviously their relationship with Nekomiira was the deciding factor in this teacher's decision. The teacher is assuming, however wrongly, that she just missed seeing Nekomiira cheat after she caught the other two redhanded - because out of 3 friends in a group, 2 are confirmed guilty, and all 3 had the same "cheat" in evidence.

Now, my mother and grandmother are teachers. I've helped grade LOTS of tests before, and the odds of a unique written-in wrong answer being duplicated 3 times without cheating is pretty freaking rare. Place yourself in the teacher's shoes - if out of all your tests, you only saw this answer 3 times, and all three of those students were friends and 2 of them you KNEW cheated - wouldn't you assume the third friend had as well? Especially if they were all sitting together during the test?

I don't get the hate for the teacher. Academic dishonesty is punishable by course failure or expulsion in most colleges or schools. The teacher is probably following school policy. Yes, the evidence against Nekomiira is largely circumstantial, but it is a LOT of circumstantial evidence. Most schools have an appeals system, which is probably what Nekomiira's meeting with the principal will be. What happens as a result of that meeting is likely determined by Nekomiira's past history and academics, as well as the strength of her defense.

I wish her good luck, regardless.

[Lekhaka]

The important question now is, what is the best course of action? Would you suggest that when making future friends, take into account of the probability they'll get you caught up in trivial 'scandals' such as this? How could you possibly know this? Like you say, most people have heard this from their mothers already. Yeah, one might be able to avoid the company of obvious mafia gangsters and drug dealers, but how would you avoid something like this?

The hate for the teacher comes from the fact that he/she is punishing someone who could not have reasonably done anything to prevent that the scenario for which they are punished for. Doesn't matter if this is strictly school policy-- a responsible and reasonable teacher would see that the policy was screwed up in this scenario, and personally prevented harm resulting from it.

Place yourself in the teacher's shoes - if out of all your tests, you only saw this answer 3 times, and all three of those students were friends and 2 of them you KNEW cheated - wouldn't you assume the third friend had as well? Especially if they were all sitting together during the test?

Oh, I can see how many people would. And many people would be wrong. If you consider the nature of all that "evidence" you can see that it still doesn't total up to be strong enough. Obviously there is a high prior probability of any student mis-identifying that picture for another one in the textbook. This makes it comparable to a multiple choice, and not just any random written answer. Now it's not so improbable that this happened without cheating, is it?

And we haven't even gotten started on the fact that there's a bias for friends to sit next to each other in the classroom...all such things considered, the many pieces of "evidence" you have are actually correlated, thus should be treated as 1 piece of evidence and not multiple ones that independently increase probability.

Many humans suck at reasoning. This doesn't excuse them from harming other humans with their stupidity.

[Sapphi]

Aw, that's kind of mean...

Yes, and I'm serious. Whoever did this witch-trial thing is mean. They should get their own dose of mean. Even better if you can walk away with a cool movie-like line, such as "Oh, did you lose your job? Sorry I couldn't hear your reasonable objections to disproportionate punishment over the sound of my awesome poetic justice."

Well, when you put it that way...

But...

Many humans suck at reasoning.

So it's entirely possible that the teacher thinks he is justified in accusing Nekomiira of cheating and doesn't realize what he is doing. Maybe he was just really tired and jumped to a stupid conclusion... teachers are under a lot of daily stress, you know? So maybe if the argument is presented to him he will realize his mistake and apologize. And I think this would be for the best because swap "friends" for "husbands and fathers" here:

Would you suggest that when making future friends, take into account of the probability they'll get you caught up in trivial 'scandals' such as this?

What if the teacher did get poetic justice for making a mistake? It's not like his family should have to suffer because they didn't anticipate that his bad reasoning would land him in this situation... should they?

Of course, my attitude would be very different if I were to find out that this teacher had ulterior motives for jumping to his silly conclusion, such as wanting to "get back" at Nekomiira for something that happened previously or just because he doesn't like him/her. That would be mean, and that would demand JUSTICE!

[TrickWithAKnife]

Is it just me, or do the real life trials and tribulations of peploe here often sound like great storylines for VNs?

[Applegate]

It's not just you. I think it'd be a bit disrespectful to suddenly take someone's agonies and write them into a VN, though.

[SusanTheCat]

I think we should start a thread of "funny/interesting" things that really happened that people could use in a VN.

for example:
When I was in high school, two guys asked my best friend if I was going with anyone to the dance. (That's the way it worked in our school. You never asked the person directly, you always asked their best friend.) I was babysitting at the time and the kids and I discussed which guy I should pick. (I went with brawn over brain - the guy I picked was super hunky.)

Susan

[Blane Doyle]

One of the most common pieces of writing "advice" (quotations because this is more an idea or tip than advice to me) I see and get for coming up with ideas is "watch/read the news, you can use an article as inspiration for a story!", and people on the NaNoWriMo forums have made personal story swap posts in the past. So doing so isn't uncommon.

But I think it might be bad form to use personal hardships from someone you know (in)directly too. Unless you have their permission or it is very vaguely inspired. But opinions differ.

Though Susan's idea certainly sound like what I mentioned before. That could make a great thread.

[ebi brain]

A thread like that would be interesting...

I hope everything gets cleared up for you Nekomiira!


Ok, so, eventhough I'm a grown up, have two pretty good working legs ( albeit with some physical problems :/), and don't have too much trouble walking, my parents are so protective about me that they insist on driving me to school ( a 25 minute walk, can't ride a bike) because XYZ. They actually get angry when I sneak out the house so I can walk to school, or when I don't call them to pick me up


Well, I need the exercise and with the start of a new theme at school, I decided this theme, I 'd walk to school everyday. It'd do me good.

So, I tell my mom,
who insists on changing my mind " Are you sure? i don't think it's a good idea for you to be walking... The roads are slippery! I'm afraid you'll slip and fall!"

But I'm not giving in and I give her the grown up story I wrote above and she accepted it. I'll be FINE.

This morning, I was a little late for school, but if I'd walk faster than usual, I'd make it.
So I set out to school, walking as fast as I can. And what happens?

I fall. Bloody knee and a hole in my favourite jeans.

FML

Though I didn't fall because of ice... My shoelaces got untied XD

I'm going to continue to limp walk to school though.

[Mink]

You know, there was something I just read that made me think, "Why should I have sex if I can get the same thing from chocolate? Also with chocolate I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have to worry about disease or pregnancy."

I'm pretty sure that says a lot about me. And I better start looking at what kind of cats I'm inevitably going to end up collecting. I've always wanted a ragdoll, or maybe a pixie-bob....

[Carassaurat]

I just deleted 700 words from my VN script today and wrote only 300, which may not end up in the final version either. I know deleting is the right way to write, but it's not getting done at this rate.

[Obscura]

I just deleted 700 words from my VN script today and wrote only 300, which may not end up in the final version either. I know deleting is the right way to write, but it's not getting done at this rate.

I totally hate that feeling of losing word count (which happens to me every day once I get going on the 2nd draft), so I fully empathize with you.

Having said that, I doubt there's a single person who wants to read 700 words of fluff over 300 words of decently written material.

[Blane Doyle]

See, that is why I decided to "NaNo" all my writing.

I don't delete ANYTHING until I think I am "finished". I add things but I don't delete. You can always rework it or just remove it later in editing. At least it makes it possible for me to actually write stuff and keeps me from trashing things I wish I had kept for editing later on.