Forum Rules Discussion

[Velvet Breath]

Hello!

When replying to a thread, especially those in WIP or Ideas, I could barely think of contributing contents to reply to the original poster(eg unable to answer their questions with constructive opinions/criticism) because I already like what they have to offer in the premise. I thought that I would be better off not replying at all, but at the same time I want to express my support to the game, and I also want to let the poster & LSF lurkers to know that *insert game name* here has supporters. I think that helps to motivate creators?

Anyway, if I don't have anything to contribute, would it be better to keep quiet? But how am I supposed to show the creator my support over their project? I don't have much to offer in terms of skills and ideas, only thing I have is my piece of mind.

Thank you.

[PyTom]

Really, it's probably best to offer something constructive - decide what you like, and tell them about it. If you can't do that, a PM is more appropriate than a public post.

[BáiYù]

There are actually some phpBB mods that allow post/user upvotes. It may be a little Facebook-y, but knowing that someone supports your work can be pretty motivating. Would the team be interested in looking into those options?

[Fuseblower]

When replying to a thread, especially those in WIP or Ideas, I could barely think of contributing contents to reply to the original poster

Well, here are a couple of suggestions :

"Dear Sir, surely you must be channeling Rembrandt's Spirit. Your Art belongs in the Louvre!"

"Dear Sir, your story summed up the entire human condition. I feel I've been enlightened. It also made me understand Quantum Mechanics and Snare Theory."

"Dear Sir, I know you're a pious programmer who only ever passes by value and always defines main() as returning int. It pains me to see one as yourself being forced to dabble in an unholy scripting mockery like python whose creator will surely burn in Hell, Dennis Ritchie willing."

"Dear Sir, my name is Bill Gates and I've been looking for a worthy successor to lead my company. I'll be in contact soon."

"Dear Sir, my name is Admiral Ackbar and... IT'S A TRAP!"

Now, I understand that these suggestions are not applicable to all threads. But you can post them to this one

Seriously though : if you want to show your support then just do it, even by small comments like "Looks great!".

[Zelan]

@Fuseblower marry me

@Velvet Breath I understand your dilemma completely. In fact, sometimes I don't respond to threads because I'm just not sure exactly what to say. Fuseblower had some good (if silly) ideas.

The point is, even if you can't type a 5-paragraph essay about someone's idea or work-in-progress, you can still post a little encouraging comment about it. For instance, (using Fuseblower's VN as an example since it's already linked up there), I might post something like, "Wow! The premise is hilarious, I was giggling just reading it. And I love Oni Rangaku's design." It may not be discussion inciting, but it's a little more info than just "I like the story and art." Just a verb to describe the story and a focus on one of the characters (even if you like all of them!) can be sufficient.

Of course, if you CAN type more than that, by all means do so. Tenkeiteki Tokyo really wasn't the best example for a short response because there's so much good material to respond to. cx

[Velvet Breath]

I second the upvote idea! Just afraid that it might discourage people to not write a reply even more though xD

@Fuseblower do small comments really help the creators though, based on your personal experience? One thing I'm afraid of my comment being viewed as spam instead of support. Plus, your WIP is too outstanding and definitely deserves all the praises xD

@Zelan thank you, I'll keep that in mind when I make a reply. (Lowkey shipping you guys lol)

[dfbreezy]

I third the upvote idea. it's a more collected way to keep WIP threads short while still letting creators know that their post hasn't been viewed and ignored. Having 2000+ views with only 6 replies isn't really encouraging.

[Fuseblower]

I upvote the upvote idea too!

@Velvet Breath : I do believe that small comments help the creators but only because it gives them the feeling that someone actually reads the thread.

I've seen WIP threads that have no comments at all (they did have lots of views though). I guess, in such cases, a creator might think : "Does anybody actually cares?". Posting a simple "Looks great!" might give them the feeling that someone out there actually does care (cue "Somewhere out there" by Ronstadt/Igram)

After all : during a project there will be (many) moments when there seem to be more reasons to quit than reasons to continue.

Of course, there's the flip side that a thread might get swamped in such small comments but I haven't seen that on this forum.

[fleet]

Is the upvote similar to the 'like' button I've seen at some forums? If so, I think it's a good idea.

[Zelan]

@Velvet Breath I don't think I've ever been shipped with anyone before. cx I guess I can cross that off my bucket list.

Anyway, back on topic, I'm definitely in agreement with what dfbreezy pointed out about views vs. comments. It's one thing to have a post sit at 0 views for a couple weeks, but it's another thing to have a post get 100 views a day and not one comment, not even a critiquing one. It can give the sense that no one cares enough to comment on your project at all. However, some people are just lurkers, or are waiting for a bit more information before commenting. An upvote/like button would be something simple that doesn't require an entire post to be written, but lets the creator know that people are interested.

[BáiYù]

After a bit of hunting around, the most appropriate (for this forum, imo) upvote/like/thumbs-up/etc. phpBB mod that I've found is the "Thanks for Post" mod.

https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/ ... for_posts/

In a nutshell:

• Users can thank an individual post's author
• There is no "unlike" button, can only cancel a thanks
• View how many times a user has thanked a post, and how many posts they've made have been thanked

This would reduce the number of posts that can simply be summed up as "Good work, I like it!", but I can also forsee it as a problem where some users will never post, as Velvet Breath mentioned earlier. In either case, I hope that a feature like this is considered.

[trooper6]

I'm officially neutral on the thumbs up issue, but personally skeptical. What I mean by that is. If the thumbs up method is instituted I'm not not going to care...but I worry that the thumbs up will feed toxicity around external validation.

If one finds self worth in the validation of others and get demoralized when they don't get comments on their WIP thread because they assume that the only reason someone wouldn't comment is because they don't care about their work or don't like it...how are they going to react when they don't get thumbs ups?

There could be any number of reasons why people don't comment on WIP threads. I almost never comment on WIP threads, for example. Not because your work sucks or I don't care about it. Sometimes I care about a project very much...but don't want to hang out on the WIP thread because I don't want spoilers. It is the same reason I never play early/beta releases on Steam...I like to interact with a thing when it is finished rather than in progress so I can really get the artist's final vision.

So instituting a thumbs up? Whatever. It's fine. But relying on a thumb's up to bolster motivation and self-validation I think might actually make the situation worse rather than better.

For people who are really reliant on external validation for their sense of self-worth, I recommend these two articles for thought by Dr. Nerdlove. Yeah, he is a dating advice guy for nerds, but his discussions of external validation and locus of control is something I think a lot of people might find interesting.

https://goodmenproject.com/featured-con ... ion-jvinc/
http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/11/who-controls-you/

[Zelan]

Hmm, trooper6 makes a good point as well. Instating an upvote system might just end up creating the exact same problem. And I can definitely see myself getting lazy and posting less because I now have the option of simply 'liking' a post and not having to explain why.

[Fuseblower]

I'm officially neutral on the thumbs up issue, but personally skeptical. What I mean by that is. If the thumbs up method is instituted I'm not not going to care...but I worry that the thumbs up will feed toxicity around external validation.

If one finds self worth in the validation of others and get demoralized when they don't get comments on their WIP thread because they assume that the only reason someone wouldn't comment is because they don't care about their work or don't like it...how are they going to react when they don't get thumbs ups?

Making a visual novel seems to me like a pretty convoluted way to get external validation.

There is another reason to desire support in a WIP thread. Namely to answer the simple question "Is this okay or am I just wasting my time making something that nobody wants?".

[trooper6]

Making a visual novel seems to me like a pretty convoluted way to get external validation.

There is another reason to desire support in a WIP thread. Namely to answer the simple question "Is this okay or am I just wasting my time making something that nobody wants?".

People who are reliant on external validation for their sense of self worth take it with them no matter what they do.

Making a thread so that people can tell you they want your thing and that being the deciding factor of if you think you are wasting your time or not, rather than making a game because you like it and it is important to you, is exactly the sort of problematic need for external validation I'm talking about.

If you make a game that you believe in and that is important to you, if you have internalized your sense of validation, you shouldn't need someone to tell you they love your game idea, and you shouldn't be ready too pitch it all in because you didn't get enough likes.

You have to believe in yourself...especially when other people don't.