Artschools..

[MonoPiero]

;-; I wonder if this is the right place to ask this? uhm.. Is anyone here attending art school or intending to get into one? (Or studying art as a subject) I really hate drawing realism but I guess it's a must in art schools right ._. .. (I don't know what I'm trying to say-- sorry..)

[luminarious]

We had some compulsory drawing lessons when I was studying architecture. I liked those a lot and started painting on the side. Recently I came to the conclusion that while I like architecture in general, it would be a lousy career choice for me. So I quit and started to work on putting together a learning schedule for myself, believing that I can get closer to my ideal renaissance man like this. Time will tell..

[Auro-Cyanide]

I haven't done anything beyond high school. Realism can be quite fun to do. It's sometimes good to approach it very loosely, as a way of teaching yourself to see properly and concentrate on the most important elements. One exercise I remember doing that I had a lot of fun with was: Get a big piece of paper and a quick medium like pastels or watercolour. Set up a still life with whatever you want. Give yourself 15 minutes to capture the essence of the scene in front of you. This was a big break through moment since it forces you to not look at details and instead look at the main elements that form the visual. It's a great challenge and a great way to try a variation of techniques.

(I was going to ask if anyone knew of good online resources for art fundamentals, but that would probably be better off in the art section)

[Tetiel]

I had seriously considered going to an art school back in my senior year in high school. I got accepted to a few as well, including the School of the Art Institute of Chicago, but I later decided not to go for a variety of reasons. I highly suggest that you do NOT go to one as well (unless you can read through this without batting an eye)

I have no idea where you live, so I'll assume America for my purposes just because I'm egocentric like that. In America, all of the schools which are not those silly chain schools like the Art Institutes cost an excessive amount of money. I'm talking at least $30k per year. Oh, wait, SAIC has increased their fees from that to $37k a year PLUS all fees like room and board, books, misc other expenses puts the total up to $57k a year. Cornish, another I looked at is a similar nightmare, though slightly less pricey at $31k/year and $43k after expenses. Are you prepared to put yourself in that much debt? SAIC does offer financial aid, but really doesn't offer too much as far as scholarships except to those with exceptional portfolios or exceptional academics so they can raise their average SAT scores. As far as the chain schools like the Art Institutes my high school art teacher strongly advised me that they are useless. I do not know if that is any longer the case. I don't mean any offense to those who do go there and hopefully you can tell me differently. It'd be nice to hear that there is an affordable art school out there.

Any of these schools will also be extremely prejudiced against people who draw anime. Back in high school I had to practically do it in secret, as in NEVER in class and NEVER in my portfolio. Is it fair? Absolutely not, but a lot of the people who are going to be accepting you think that anime isn't even art. It's a disgusting attitude. Some in my class were even convinced that digital medium wasn't art as well. You will encounter that all over, though thankfully people are starting to ease into digital art. You'd think artists would be a little bit more open minded when it comes to their trade, but that's often not the case.

In your portfolio it is a requirement usually that you need at least one photorealistic piece to show that you actually can do it. Usually it's a good idea to have a variety of pieces of different mediums like oil bar, pastels, conte crayons, coloured pencils, oil paint, acrylic paint, sculpture. The majority of my portfolio was oil bar and oil paint, so it is perfectly okay to do something strongly in one or the other. Your portfolio also does not need to be realistic. The majority of my work was similar to children's book illustration, which was the field I wanted to go into. I also had several realistic animals in there and my photorealistic piece was of a 60 year old man to show that I could do value change well. In a portfolio you need to show that you can challenge yourself.

You also need extremely thick skin to attend an art school. During critique, fellow artists are not afraid to hurt your feelings. I've almost felt like crying after a couple because they will completely rip it into shreds in front of the entire class and not always with the attempt to help. That's why I don't mind critiques online because I can sit back, breathe, and take it. It's not as easy in person. The comments can sometimes also be the pettiest things. Artists can be extremely competitive with each other and lash out at you for stupid things. Just remember if you go, they're human and just like regular humans, you have good people and awful people. The good critiques that you'll receive WILL make it worth some of the humiliation lol. You'll be a much better artist for it and "grow a pair" (pardon the vulgarity) which is always good. Oh, and fyi for writers: from what I understand, they will do the same thing to you if you're an english major. It's good for you, builds character.

Now that I'm done scaring the crap out of you, if you still want to do it, go for it. Absolutely go for it. The guy who reviewed my portfolio told me that artists become artists because they have no other choice. If that's you, I'm ecstatic. If you get accepted, the first year that you take, you will learn how to draw, really draw. You won't complete a single thing, but they will teach you anatomy and you'll improve leaps and bounds. I think part of the reason why some artists hate anime so much is because many people, myself included, learn it with no consideration of real anatomy. I was always taught (then ignored when it comes to people, though oddly enough not animals) that you should always learn how to draw correctly first and THEN stylize. You will learn to do that in art school. They will beat it into your brain.

If you're wary, don't worry. I encourage you to take a course in the university you plan to attend or even at a local college. You'd be surprised how good some community colleges are for art. Quite a few local pro artists take them to learn weird mediums like silk painting or bronze casting. You can take that opportunity to talk to them to see what path they took to get to where they are. Test your waters first because when you go to an art school, you don't have an ease of changing majors in case you dislike it. That's really the best advice I can give. Good luck!

[Nuxill]

I go to a private art school right now. It's expensive yes, but I improved more in my first year than all four years of high school art. If you do end up deciding to go to an art school choose one that will give you a BFA (bachelor of fine arts) instead of just a BA. You have to take a couple of non-art classes, but it's a lot less than if you were going to a regular school.

Even if you hate realism you're going to be drawing a LOT of it, at least in your life drawing classes. It can be hard at first, aggravating even especially if you're not used to it, but life drawing and critique are the fastest ways to improve your art skills. It's not about drawing in a realistic style, it's about learning to draw what you see instead of what you think you see.

Also Tetiel, I have no idea what art school you went to, but the attitude here is much different. There are a lot of students who do digital work (most of the people in my studio class are doing their finals on the computer including myself!) and we even have a good amount of digital classes. There are also a lot of people who enjoy anime here, and the only time someone has moaned about it is an art teacher who was more upset about the fact that the girl didn't do anything but draw anime, to the extent that she didn't try doing anything else or working outside her comfort zone, and it limited her growth as an artist. Our critiques are a lot more friendly and laid back because we all want to help each other get better. I guess it depends on the attitude of the teacher and the students. Also I don't know how it would be in other schools but in our studio classes in freshman and sophomore year we focused more on drawing in a realistic style, but now we're free to do more stylistic work.

You're only going to get as much out as you put in at art school, so if you're really against drawing realism and working with all sorts of media (some you might end up liking, a lot you probably won't) then I suggest not going. Also don't go if it's too much money. There are a lot of great artists who never took one step into a school. You can still learn without ever going to an art class as long as you study from life and then apply it to your drawings. BUT, if you've got the money and the drive, I say go for it!

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Any of these schools will also be extremely prejudiced against people who draw anime.

Yes. Anime is viewed as the lowest hack drawing style in the world, and any student drawing it is considered a hack. I had professors that told students if they found one anime drawing in their portfolio or sketchbook that they would fail them. I saw a student kicked out of class for doing a sketch in anime-style.

I think part of the reason why some artists hate anime so much is because many people, myself included, learn it with no consideration of real anatomy. I was always taught (then ignored when it comes to people, though oddly enough not animals) that you should always learn how to draw correctly first and THEN stylize. You will learn to do that in art school. They will beat it into your brain.

That is the big reason. Anime itself was designed to be fast and cheap to draw. Too many amateur artists learn shorthand tricks using it. If you look at the work of the best anime artists, and look at their entire portfolio, you will see where they do very realistic anatomy studies as well. Too often, people that can draw anime can't draw anything else. Anime is an extreme stylization of the human body. You can't draw GOOD anime unless you can draw a GOOD realistic human body.

You also need extremely thick skin to attend an art school. During critique, fellow artists are not afraid to hurt your feelings. I've almost felt like crying after a couple because they will completely rip it into shreds in front of the entire class and not always with the attempt to help. That's why I don't mind critiques online because I can sit back, breathe, and take it. It's not as easy in person. The comments can sometimes also be the pettiest things. Artists can be extremely competitive with each other and lash out at you for stupid things. Just remember if you go, they're human and just like regular humans, you have good people and awful people. The good critiques that you'll receive WILL make it worth some of the humiliation lol. You'll be a much better artist for it and "grow a pair" (pardon the vulgarity) which is always good.

I can second this. There is no hand-holding. You are about to enter the "Big Leagues", and they want to make sure you deserve to be there. I had instructors reach over my shoulder, pick up the paper and rip it to shreds, then calmly tell me to do it again, but correctly. Instructors will have you make dozens of art pieces a week, and they could not care less about how much time you have available. "Artist's ship" as Steve Jobs said. You will be expected to turn in work on time and up to quality standards. They judge you like a client, business, or studio would judge you and they don't take excuses.

You will be constantly compared against dozens of other artists seeking to make a career out of their art. Your art will be put side by side with everyone else's, and if it is found wanting they will let you know. This is simultaneously nerve-wracking and one of the greatest benefits of art school. You are forced to constantly up your game to keep from embarrassing yourself.

A lot of art instructors (who have professional careers of their own) will take your lack of progress personally, and let you know they refuse to accept subpar output from you because it reflects poorly on them, and they'll be "damned" before you are allowed to mention they taught you with your "shoddy output".

I mentioned in the "Get Things Off Your Chest Now" thread about the portfolio review process for graduation. It is absolutely brutal. They actually bring in professionals to judge you and grill you on your work. The worst question I got was, "Why do you think someone would ever want to look at this?" in response to the subject matter of one of my pieces. They never smile.

Now that I'm done scaring the crap out of you, if you still want to do it, go for it. Absolutely go for it. The guy who reviewed my portfolio told me that artists become artists because they have no other choice.

Ditto. If you are committed, do a lot of research on the art schools you want to apply to (especially check out their faculty roster and research the work and careers of the instructors). Then go boldly and bravely forward.

[nyaatrap]

I think part of the reason why some artists hate anime so much is because many people, myself included, learn it with no consideration of real anatomy. I was always taught (then ignored when it comes to people, though oddly enough not animals) that you should always learn how to draw correctly first and THEN stylize. You will learn to do that in art school. They will beat it into your brain.

That is the big reason. Anime itself was designed to be fast and cheap to draw. Too many amateur artists learn shorthand tricks using it. If you look at the work of the best anime artists, and look at their entire portfolio, you will see where they do very realistic anatomy studies as well. Too often, people that can draw anime can't draw anything else. Anime is an extreme stylization of the human body. You can't draw GOOD anime unless you can draw a GOOD realistic human body.

Yeah. If they think anime artists don't have anatomy knowledge, they just blind. Anime art is some kind of mixture of anatomy and geometry. Start with real anatomy knowledge then modify them with some formula. I can draw realistic figure looking at a real model, without modification, it's just a drawing I did thousands times in the past.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Yeah. If they think anime artists don't have anatomy knowledge, they just blind. Anime art is some kind of mixture of anatomy and geometry. Start with real anatomy knowledge then modify them with some formula. I can draw realistic figure looking at a real model, without modification, it's just a drawing I did thousands times in the past.

Most amateur anime artists don't have anatomy knowledge. The problem is they DON'T start with real anatomy knowledge. They copy the geometry and style formula of other anime artists with no idea why something works or why it doesn't. I can definitely tell the difference between an anime artist with real anatomy knowledge and skill and one who is just copying the anime shorthand from anime and manga.

The point is, at art school, they are there to teach you the real anatomy knowledge, and insisting on drawing anime style impedes that. Anime is a stylization of the real human body, and you can't create effective stylization without being able to create the original. The simple fact is that anyone who can draw realistic people can draw anime, but not everyone that can draw anime can draw realistic people.

The bias is there for a reason, and it is a good one.

[Sapphi]

Any of these schools will also be extremely prejudiced against people who draw anime.

Yes. Anime is viewed as the lowest hack drawing style in the world, and any student drawing it is considered a hack. I had professors that told students if they found one anime drawing in their portfolio or sketchbook that they would fail them. I saw a student kicked out of class for doing a sketch in anime-style.

...O_O

I know about the bias against anime (and understand it) but... jeez, I am scared. I doodle out of habit... what school was this?

I have to say though, their points aside, I find it odd that they are not at least a teeny tiny bit more accepting of a style that is so incredibly popular (and very diverse). Do you have any theories? I mean, it obviously isn't fine art, but pop art is a celebrated form of art too, so you would think it wouldn't be terrible if a student's particular bend was towards anime. Maybe it's all in the execution though... Personally, I think it's partially that they have seen far too many socially incompetent weeaboos with ridiculous delusions of grandeur... and that just maybe they don't think it is American enough

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I know about the bias against anime (and understand it) but... jeez, I am scared. I doodle out of habit... what school was this?

Art Institute of Atlanta. But it is the same at SCAD and numerous other art schools.

I have to say though, their points aside, I find it odd that they are not at least a teeny tiny bit more accepting of a style that is so incredibly popular (and very diverse). Do you have any theories?

That is a big part of it. It is basically considered "draw-by-numbers". Too many artists start off drawing nothing but anime without even attempting realistic representations of the world first. One of my instructors explained that they had too many students coming in that could draw well when they drew anime, but couldn't draw anything else. The goal of art schools is to prepare you to get a job, and frankly, the major popularity of anime is a problem. There are a TON of people that can draw anime, i.e. you aren't in high demand. Plus, there is the fact I stated before - if you draw realistically, you can copy anime style in a heartbeat after watching a little of it. So any studio that hires an artist wants to hire the REALISTIC one, because they know if they ever NEED an anime artist, the REALISTIC artist can handle the job. And you can't stand out with an anime portfolio because there are so many of them out there, and so many of the anime styles look the same.

Conversely, about a decade ago when anime really flared up in popularity, a lot of studios hired artists that had amazing anime portfolios. When those studios started to lose money on anime and wanted to take on other projects in different styles, they suddenly found those artists couldn't draw anything BUT anime. So a bunch of studios got burned and became extremely gun-shy about hiring people with anime in their portfolios.

I mean, it obviously isn't fine art, but pop art is a celebrated form of art too, so you would think it wouldn't be terrible if a student's particular bend was towards anime.

You have to know the rules and the basics before you can break and stylize them. Even Salvador Dali and Picasso learned to paint photorealism before they went nuts abstracting and distorting everything. Art school isn't there to teach you specializations. It is there to teach you the ground rules, theories, and fundamentals. That means replicating reality as closely as possible. Once you can take life and replicate it at will, you can start to bend it into new shapes. You do that on your own time after you've mastered the art rules.

Personally, I think it's partially that they have seen far too many socially incompetent weeaboos with ridiculous delusions of grandeur...

That is a big part of it too. It is a shame, but a lot of the "anime students" seem very resistant to learning the basics and realistic anatomy. They spout ridiculousness like, "All I'll ever need to draw is anime! Why should I learn that?" or "I'm going to go to Japan and make anime and manga, why do I need life drawing?"

So yes, part of it is that weeaboo students have annoyed the CRAP out of the instructors in the past, and you are just the latest one to make their life miserable, so they'll take it out on you.

Maybe it's all in the execution though...

Definitely. One of my school projects even used anime-style sketches - a sort of hybrid between realistic and moe. Almost a Disney-style. But I didn't call them ANIME, and I did them after I had spent 3 years proving I was capable of other things. And I didn't rattle on about Japan all the time.

The fact is, you can still draw anime while in art school. Just keep it at home and separate from your other work! And draw realistic figures and faces as much as you can instead of "resisting" them for not being anime. Look at Range Murata's work:



Except for the girl's head size and face, that could be a photoreal picture. If you were to look at this image, with no idea of the artist, you would know that artist could draw you anything you needed, be it stylized or realistic. You WANT to be that artist.

[Sapphi]

There are a TON of people that can draw anime, i.e. you aren't in high demand. Plus, there is the fact I stated before - if you draw realistically, you can copy anime style in a heartbeat after watching a little of it. So any studio that hires an artist wants to hire the REALISTIC one, because they know if they ever NEED an anime artist, the REALISTIC artist can handle the job. And you can't stand out with an anime portfolio because there are so many of them out there, and so many of the anime styles look the same.

I wonder if there's some kind of phenomenon responsible for the vast amount of art kids who do anime and think they are original, not realizing that they are a dime a dozen. I know when I was in grade school, everybody fawned over my drawings because they were anime and consequently I was encouraged to keep doing what I was doing. I knew one other person in my area who freehanded anime-style. One. So I thought I was pretty unique. I mean, I knew there were lots of Western artists with similar styles on the internet, but until later in high school and college I never realized what a high amount of artists did it.

I must say I already noticed that after some classes on drawing from life, I can adopt various anime styles rather easily, when before, I was really awful at it.

Conversely, about a decade ago when anime really flared up in popularity, a lot of studios hired artists that had amazing anime portfolios. When those studios started to lose money on anime and wanted to take on other projects in different styles, they suddenly found those artists couldn't draw anything BUT anime. So a bunch of studios got burned and became extremely gun-shy about hiring people with anime in their portfolios.

Huh, did not know this. That's interesting...

It is a shame, but a lot of the "anime students" seem very resistant to learning the basics and realistic anatomy. They spout ridiculousness like, "All I'll ever need to draw is anime! Why should I learn that?" or "I'm going to go to Japan and make anime and manga, why do I need life drawing?"

Oh man, if I had a dollar for every time I heard "REALISM NOOO" I would be rich
I even used to be scared about it, but I think it's because I only drew with regular pencils and could not fathom how to make a realistic drawing look good. When I was introduced to charcoal, I instead found it really fun and relaxing. I'd like to do more studies from life in my spare time, but I kinda hate asking people who aren't used to being models or in the art scene. And photos just aren't the same...

(BTW, we art students should really toss some of our life studies up here sometime and discuss 'em.)

Look at Range Murata's work:

Except for the girl's head size and face, that could be a photoreal picture. If you were to look at this image, with no idea of the artist, you would know that artist could draw you anything you needed, be it stylized or realistic. You WANT to be that artist.

Aw man, I've seen that guy's stuff before... and I do want to be him.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I wonder if there's some kind of phenomenon responsible for the vast amount of art kids who do anime and think they are original, not realizing that they are a dime a dozen.

It's called "copying what's popular". Before anime it was comic books, before comic books it was Disney characters. Hitler didn't get into art school because his portfolio was filled with landscapes and Disney drawings (Donald Duck, Mickey, etc.) He wasn't very good at drawing people. (SO LOOK WHAT NOT PRACTICING REALISTIC DRAWING DID! IT CAUSED WORLD WAR 2!! )

I even used to be scared about it, but I think it's because I only drew with regular pencils and could not fathom how to make a realistic drawing look good. When I was introduced to charcoal, I instead found it really fun and relaxing.

Bleh. I love graphite. I hate how messy charcoal is, and it is such a production. Mask the paper, prepare the paper by embedding charcoal, blot the excess charcoal, etc. etc. And it gets my hands dirty! ( <- ::loves digital mainly because it keeps hands clean::)

(BTW, we art students should really toss some of our life studies up here sometime and discuss 'em.)

Mine would be really creepy. They are all highly detailed and shaded - except the faces, which are completely blank. Pretty much something like this, except in charcoal and graphite. I used life drawing to study anatomy and poses, and left my face studies for photographs. My life drawing pad makes me look like some creepy serial killer - page after page of super detailed naked women, all of them with missing faces.

Speaking of life drawing, it is the best thing ever for a male artist. A beautiful collection of life drawings shown to a girl is an excellent pickup opportunity. To paraphrase Rose and Jack in Titanic - "May I draw you like one of my French girls?" They see it as this incredibly romantic thing where you draw them as beautiful as they seem to you, and lecherous man that you are, you get to seem them naked. It really shouldn't work as well as it does . . . . I know. I know. I'll go sit in the corner and think about what a bad person I am.

[Sapphi]

It's called "copying what's popular".

I guess so, but not with everyone, so maybe it had more of a fringe appeal to it too... bah, I don't care about the psychology of it, I'm just ashamed of my childhood now.

(SO LOOK WHAT NOT PRACTICING REALISTIC DRAWING DID! IT CAUSED WORLD WAR 2!! )

Somebody needs to make this into a cheesy 1950s-era poster, stat. The science department already has Carol who never wore her safety glasses...

Bleh. I love graphite. I hate how messy charcoal is, and it is such a production. Mask the paper, prepare the paper by embedding charcoal, blot the excess charcoal, etc. etc. And it gets my hands dirty! ( <- ::loves digital mainly because it keeps hands clean::)

Woah! I'm just the opposite, I get frustrated with digital because it's so precise and has no smell. I do hate how charcoal dries out my hands though, and gets on other things (like my face...)

Speaking of life drawing, it is the best thing ever for a male artist. A beautiful collection of life drawings shown to a girl is an excellent pickup opportunity. To paraphrase Rose and Jack in Titanic - "May I draw you like one of my French girls?" They see it as this incredibly romantic thing where you draw them as beautiful as they seem to you, and lecherous man that you are, you get to seem them naked. It really shouldn't work as well as it does . . . . I know. I know. I'll go sit in the corner and think about what a bad person I am.

Until you have to draw a naked man, right?

I gotta say though, as a female artist, I don't tend to find male artists very romantic at all, lol! I think it's like opposites attract, similarities repel.

Now... a scientist on the other hand...
I WILL WARM YOUR COLD, ANALYTICAL HEART WITH MY RIGHT BRAIN NONSENSE, YOU WILL FIND ME RIDICULOUS BUT SOMEHOW YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO ESCAPE MY CHARM, YOU WILL THINK TO YOURSELF "WHAT IS THIS IRRATIONAL FEELING, I CAN'T CALCULATE IT, I CAN'T REDUCE IT, I CAN'T ANALYZE IT, WHAT COULD IT POSSIBLY BE, GAH MY TREMBLING FINGERS HAVE BROKEN MY PETRI DISH, IS THIS WHAT THEY CALL A METAPHOR, I HAVE STUDIED THE HUMAN HEART EXTENSIVELY BUT WHY IS MINE BEATING SO HARD, IT'S JUST ADRENALIN... OR IS IT?!! QUICK, SELF, DO SOMETHING RATIONAL!" BUT IN THE END YOU WILL SOB INTO YOUR MICROSCOPE IN DESPAIR AND RUN TO ME AND LAY AT MY FEET AS I PLAY SCHUBERT'S SERENADE AND WE WILL CONTEMPLATE THE MEANING OF OUR EXISTENCE AND THE REST OF OUR DAYS WILL BE FILLED WITH FLOWER CROWNS AND LANGUID SUMMER EVENINGS AND SWEET PAINFUL NOSTALGIA AND IT WILL ALL COME TO AN END WITH A SWEEPING CRESCENDO AND WE'LL KILL OURSELVES IN AN IRRATIONAL LOVER'S SUICIDE AND AS WE LAY DYING IN THE GREEN GRASS TOGETHER OUR BLOOD WILL RUN TOGETHER AND THERE WILL BE NO RHESUS FACTOR OR BLOOD TYPE, JUST PAINFUL, BEAUTIFUL, EUPHORIC LIQUID HUMANITY!

...Okay, I'm done.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Until you have to draw a naked man, right?

I've drawn naked men from life, but it wasn't as nice as drawing the ladies . . . . you know, in my opinion . . . as a guy . . . .

I gotta say though, as a female artist, I don't tend to find male artists very romantic at all, lol! I think it's like opposites attract, similarities repel.

Well, that's because you're on to our crap and cheesy pickup lines! You know drawing isn't some magical talent we summon with sorcery. I.e. the ability of some man to draw beautiful pictures isn't magic to you.

But life drawing has been a very reliable second date activity for me. And you know, as an artist, if I'm going to date a girl, I want to know she's willing to model and pose for me.

[nyaatrap]

That is a big part of it too. It is a shame, but a lot of the "anime students" seem very resistant to learning the basics and realistic anatomy. They spout ridiculousness like, "All I'll ever need to draw is anime! Why should I learn that?" or "I'm going to go to Japan and make anime and manga, why do I need life drawing?"

Oh lol, where they learned that sort of delusion? It's just a flaw ashamed of.
If someone thinking that way, he should go to an art school.