So who here is making a commercial game?

[Enerccio]

But as for now, I am doing the best I can to make the best free game I can do, and it's not because I want to impress 4chan nor even visualnews. I don't care about those markets anymore precisely because of their attitudes, whereas if I were commercial I'll really need to pander to get those sales, as they (including hongfire) are the biggest visual news 'customers'.

what is 4chan or visualnews?
i found only 4chan is some anime/manga site :/

[papillon]

(Of course, to a certain extent I am commercial because I want to be able to AFFORD to make games - as well as being able to pay people to make art because I know my art sucks.

If I had a million dollars, I would continue making games, and throw more budget into them.

And I'd probably still charge for them. As long as I was filthy rich I wouldn't charge huge amounts, but I'd still want to charge SOMETHING in order to keep the business at least slightly self-sustaining, to ensure that I could keep doing it.

Of course, by big companies' standards, a million dollars is nothing... but it would certainly be enough to keep ME in business for a long time! )

[DaFool]

I'll also point out that there was some vandalism (in this vein) by an anonymous IP on the Ren'Py wiki. It was reverted by a good samaratin. If people could keep an eye on the wiki while I'm travelling, I'd appreciate it.

EDIT: nevermind. Thank goodness for revision history. I would beg to disagree with the 'highly unoriginal / derivative' accusation though.

[F.I.A]

Quoted from Community Wiki

Please note that there is not a single one of these games that isn't poorly written, highly unoriginal/derivative and/or horribly illustrated, and at the moment you'd be much better off just purchasing/pirating "real" games.

Okay, this talk in lemmasoft, and then this edit in the wiki at the same day. Talk about coincidence?

Geez, are you baiting a flame, kiddo?

It seems like our friend here is an aspiring h-artist who tried to get someone to help him up with his project. However, it seemed that no one really took him seriously, and when he voluntered to do commission works, no one asks any from him. And thus that made him all depresssed and desperate..

@ Enerccio: Visualnews is a community which discusses about VN and translatation in general, and of course some talk about recent anime. Originated from Haeleth Gemot.

[DaFool]

Well, the difference between a rebuke for example

[STFU NOOB GO AWAY]

vs.

[paragraphs and paragraphs of quotes and responses]

is that the ones who wrote the latter ones actually care.

So it would be to everyones benefit to have a thick skin and learn from constructive discussion.

Wait until one tries to introduce one's game to the translation community to really get honest opinions. [VisualNews]

BAPTISM BY FIRE BABY!

[lordcloudx]

highly unoriginal/derivative

Actually, this applies to all forms of art. Everything is an abstraction from the real world, thus making them derivative.

[Enerccio]

@ Enerccio: Visualnews is a community which discusses about VN and translatation in general, and of course some talk about recent anime. Originated from Haeleth Gemot.

Thank you very much

[Keitsu Han'ei]

*goes whohooooooooo at papillon's latest works*

i guess everyone would love to get their little hands on some change with what they do and could do, which isn't really surprising.

after all, it is everyone's personal opinion whether or not do they want to make a commercial game. i am very sure the last thing everyone wants is the buyer attacking the maker for a horrid game. that's why many amateurs, veterans kept on producing free games to expand their limits, gain experience and make better use of their free time besides schooling and doing their permanent job.

honestly speaking if i were them, i would stick to my bread-winning job then to go freelancing self support game company... unless a well-known who pays a lot company do drag you along...

but to do this everyday... if you have no love for it, prepare to just die!


this thread, in my opinion, is about a debate of opinions, views and probably suggestions and understanding on both sides view.

definately
DEFINATELY
not to start flaming war against each other, regardless how right, how wrong, and who has the most common sense.


so guys, please tone a little down ^^; though i love to watch a debate to see people's opinion and learn more about this genre but i am afraid this thread might get out of hand if i don't point out where it is leading to and it is seriously getting off track.

the last thing i want to happen is for the interesting topic thread to blow up and the mods to blow on us.

you may beat me now if i offend. whee.

[Alessio]

Good point. Let's take it down a notch (and let's not jump to hasty conclusions about Wiki etc.). IMHO everyone, sno-dove included, is entitled to voice their opinion, and it's good this way since it's fun to discuss things. Let's avoid personal attacks, so that this thread can go on. ^_^

[Mirielle]

the last thing i want to happen is for the interesting topic thread to blow up and the mods to blow on us.

Actually, the "mods" have been taking part in the debate. Well, okay, Blue Lemma hasn't...

But, I do agree with you. Instead of having a flame war we should concentrate on working on our games so that we show these people that free games can be good. No point arguing when you can take action!

(So, in a respect, I should thank sno-dove. I have a blast of inspiration to finish my game and add all the shiny graphical finishes. Onward free games!)

[lordcloudx]

If anything, I think most members will agree that we make games not for the popularity factor or to go commercial or something later on. Me? I make only to tell stories.

I forgot to say, I'm within the same line of thinking as F.I.A. thus, I'll make my games as pretty or as ugly as I please until I'm satisfied.

Also, ya vandalizing the renpy wiki is annoying, but just pointing an accusing finger at sno-dove is a little bit unfair. Like I said, we're not going to change each other's minds, so just say your opinion if you want to and leave out the personal attacks.

And one thing I've noticed about this forum, is that the mods/admins never act superior over the members, they simply assert their authority when needed. (maybe that's because we're all living in a bubble, well... if it's a nice enough bubble why bother to burst it?)

[ShiraiJunichi]

So far, three people voted that they are working on a commercial game. I know Papillion does commercial stuff- but I wonder who the other two are... Would those two care to say who they are?

[musical74]

Only one I'm aware of is Papillion...

Keitsu Hanei brings up a good point...what started as a (very) spirited discussdion on commercial games VS free games started getting out of hand...yeah, I'm biased in favor of free games but I do intend to purchase Cute Knight whenever $$$ becomes less of an issue

I think it's nice that the mods don't feel they are superior to the members of the forums It makes it easier when you have a question for them...

[papillon]

(The Deluxe version shown above is still in progress - it's intended for a retail release in April. If all goes well.)

[Recca Phoenix]

Wow, papillon those are some good-looking games on your site there. ^_^
Just wondering, how much money are you pulling in on those? I am currently running a tshirt/merch business at My site (end shameless plug here), but it certainly doesn't pull in nearly enough money to remotely sustain me or even pass as a legit side job.
Part of the prob with that, though, is visibility....

Anyway, about commercial games.....
Many seem formulaic to me (esp. the girls' ones), and I really don't like the points-based ending system (like in Meine Liebe), because it was nearly impossible to get the guy you wanted without getting help and you'd get AAAALLL the way to the end and he'd end up with your rival because you were a point short on something or other. >_<
HoneyxHoney drops was just STUPID if you ask me. I haven't played it, but I've seen the anime and heard the story. DUMB. Some guy wants you to be his slave, that's the worst idea I ever heard in my entire life.
La Corda d'oro ~ I haven't played it but I've seen the anime. Again, the characters don't really appeal to me because they are all formulaic and such GOOD BOYS....there's no one remotely rebellious.
So many of these games tend to have point-based endings that I generally stay away from them. At least with most of the ren'py games, you get a definite story for your ending as opposed to just "oh well....you didn't get anything....try again.....and get this exact stupid number of points on so and so....."

That's my rant. I'm going to go eat candy now. ^_^