About VNs and 18+ subforums

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Lekhaka
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#61 Post by Lekhaka » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:53 pm

Taleweaver wrote:FYI: We're in the final stages of discussing a new solution with the 18+ subforums; expect us to come up with something in the next few days.
All eyes are on you but uh...no pressure. :lol:

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#62 Post by Taleweaver » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:38 am

Blane Doyle wrote:
Minnfae wrote:But the ESRB M (Mature) rating is 17+, not 13+, so it would be confusing
When you look at game ratings from the ESRB you have EC (G, or no equivelant), E (G or PG), E10+ (PG or No equivelant), T (PG-13), M/17+ (R), AO/18+ (NC-17 and above). (I always wondered WHY there is a one year difference between M and AO. The official ratings themselves are confusing to me because you have a 3 then 4 then 1 year age gap between the ratings themselves.)
That's less of a 1 year age difference than rather a reminder that the former media contain content inappropriate for children while the latter contain content that is forbidden to show to children. In Germany, if I show kids a violent horror movie, I may be held responsible for any trauma the kids suffer. However, if I show them porn, that's a criminal offense in itself. We have laws that say "if you show porn to kids, you will be punished". My guess is that the M/17 and AO/18 ratings reflect the same thing in the U.S.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#63 Post by Gear » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:10 am

An "R" rating means that a parent can bring their child who is under 18 to see the movie, but they cannot see it without adult supervision. The NC-17 means parents can't even bring their kids to see it with them, and they will not be allowed in, whether a parent/guardian is there or not. I think it only applies to theaters and video sales. What parents show their kids (as far as movies and video games go) in their own home is their business.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#64 Post by MysteriousArtistX » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:19 am

I'm pretty happy this is already being discussed because, hopefully it will answer a question I was going to ask.

Since the game I am working on will have two separate releases, an all ages [well more so YA but yeah] and mature. The later actually being the original version, so I was pondering whether that would require a separate thread or perhaps could be averted by just providing a link and not showing any of the more graphic imagery (hadn't really planned too, but a yeah or nay guideline would be appreciated :]~)

Anyway I await your decisions!
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#65 Post by Dim Sum » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:50 am

Something Capt. Obvious but not mentioned: Ratings in general are sidestepped.

Age less important than what movie producers think can get them tagged as for what age so: official tagline for what parents can and can't show different from actual politics and business making behind scenes.

Pandering to basic G/PG/R/NC-17 model is just asking for ratings to be tweaked for "demographics" purposes if used as reference point.

Couple of stuff that have seen/heard before as anecdotes:

-US R Rating and HK Cat III Rating are the same. It's why despite hentai theme, most Cat III get low rep.
-Green blood. Often heard used in German games
-http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... imeAnatomy

Forgot other more specific stuff but omitting political ratings, social ratings much different.

Issue between tasteful porn as not porn vs. all sex as porn.
Issue between child nudity. (Movie Let the Right One In has fake pubic hair but real implications. Kinda like sex version of young child saying curse word in world but irl is actually doctored in.)
Issue between exploitation and just crazy influence.

Also: MysteriousArtistX alludes one example of why made warning post that got interpreted as wat.

Just cause you fix hentai section or rename section does not mean game will be discussed. Many popular hentai forums don't discuss hentai games at all. Everything about what is going to be released or what is popular now or what is fav route but no true discussion even in actual game thread.

Many dark games better discussed in category specific forums rather than game threads. Not even game forums.

Like certain game topics only pop up in general console sub-forum where as game specific forum never bring them up at all.

Tl;dr: Ratings don't help. Sub-forums of ratings don't help. They simply create difference expectations of what to post and what can be posted and what ppl want be talked about. Even separate site forum same deal.

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#66 Post by OokamiKasumi » Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:53 am

MysteriousArtistX wrote:I'm pretty happy this is already being discussed because, hopefully it will answer a question I was going to ask.

Since the game I am working on will have two separate releases, an all ages [well more so YA but yeah] and mature. The later actually being the original version, so I was pondering whether that would require a separate thread or perhaps could be averted by just providing a link and not showing any of the more graphic imagery (hadn't really planned too, but a yeah or nay guideline would be appreciated :]~)

Anyway I await your decisions!
I believe that allowing adult WIP threads in the general area is part of the plan, as long as there's no adult content on the thread. This way you can announce what you're working on and recruit help. However threads with actual adult content will still need to be kept in the adult section. Rumor has it that you'll be able to Link to it -- as long as there's an Adult Content warning on the link.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#67 Post by TrickWithAKnife » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:31 pm

Is it possible to have some kind of tick box when creating a new thread that shows the work is eroge (or whatever classification is most acceptable)?

If we have that, the people who are interested in these works will be able to see everything in the regular forums, but people who are not interested will only see the non-eroge threads.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#68 Post by PyTom » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:35 pm

TrickWithAKnife wrote:Is it possible to have some kind of tick box when creating a new thread that shows the work is eroge (or whatever classification is most acceptable)?
Again, this isn't possible. I don't want to get into a situation where I'm maintaining a fork of phpbb.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#69 Post by TrickWithAKnife » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:50 pm

Just went back and read a bit more of the previous posts. I know there are a lot of classification ideas being thrown around, but personally the important one is NSFW. I don't want to be browsing this site on the train or at work and then end up in an embarrassing situation.
I'm not sure how often it happens, but I have seen a couple of threads that had images of full penetration in the general forum, before the admins got to them.
"We must teach them through the tools with which they are comfortable."
The #renpy IRC channel is a great place to chat with other devs. Due to the nature of IRC and timezone differences, people probably won't reply right away.

If you'd like to view or use any code from my VN PM me. All code is freely available without restriction, but also without warranty or (much) support.

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#70 Post by redeyesblackpanda » Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:59 pm

Blane Doyle wrote:(I always wondered WHY there is a one year difference between M and AO. The official ratings themselves are confusing to me because you have a 3 then 4 then 1 year age gap between the ratings themselves.)
One thing that I remember about NC-17 is that unlike R-rated movies, NC-17 movies ended up being very restricted. If I remember correctly, advertising opportunities for NC-17 movies is very, very, limited when compared with the opportunities for R-rated movies.

Pretty much the same thing applies to AO games. Major consoles don't licence AO games, and a lot of retailers will refuse to carry them. This is not true, however, for M games.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#71 Post by Blane Doyle » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:02 pm

TrickWithAKnife wrote:Just went back and read a bit more of the previous posts. I know there are a lot of classification ideas being thrown around, but personally the important one is NSFW. I don't want to be browsing this site on the train or at work and then end up in an embarrassing situation.
I'm not sure how often it happens, but I have seen a couple of threads that had images of full penetration in the general forum, before the admins got to them.
Basically, the issue is the question of "is there full on porn/full frontal nudity to a very high extent in the game and can you play it out in the open?", correct?

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#72 Post by PyTom » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:44 pm

TrickWithAKnife wrote:Just went back and read a bit more of the previous posts. I know there are a lot of classification ideas being thrown around, but personally the important one is NSFW. I don't want to be browsing this site on the train or at work and then end up in an embarrassing situation.
I don't know what level of SFW-ness is appropriate for the main forum. In pretty much all cases, some level of "artistic nudity" - like in redlines and such - is appropriate for the main forum. I'm not sure if a drawing of people playing beach volleyball is SFW or no, but I can't see banning it from the main forum.
I'm not sure how often it happens, but I have seen a couple of threads that had images of full penetration in the general forum, before the admins got to them.
Many of those are, I think, spam. It's really hard to get to that in time - having multiple admins helps, but we do all have jobs and other interests.
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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#73 Post by TrickWithAKnife » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:25 pm

Blane Doyle wrote:Basically, the issue is the question of "is there full on porn/full frontal nudity to a very high extent in the game and can you play it out in the open?", correct?
Not exactly. What I mean is things that would make life difficult if the content was seen by your grandparents/teacher/person you had a crush on/partner/workmate.
Maybe some of us are totally okay being seen viewing partial nudity, or very suggestive content, but I would be surprised if everyone you know would be so open-minded about it.

It's not prudish to have some kind of warning that a topic may contain content that could get you fired if you view it at the wrong place.
"We must teach them through the tools with which they are comfortable."
The #renpy IRC channel is a great place to chat with other devs. Due to the nature of IRC and timezone differences, people probably won't reply right away.

If you'd like to view or use any code from my VN PM me. All code is freely available without restriction, but also without warranty or (much) support.

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#74 Post by Samu-kun » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:27 pm

I think pretty much the whole forum's NSFW. I definitely wouldn't come here at work or at school... No telling what I might accidentally see. ;)

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Re: About VNs and 18+ subforums

#75 Post by redeyesblackpanda » Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:35 pm

Samu-kun wrote:I think pretty much the whole forum's NSFW. I definitely wouldn't come here at work or at school... No telling what I might accidentally see. ;)
Eheheh... I'll just give anyone that notices a creepy smile. (Unless they're a professor. It'd be a bad idea if they were a professor.)
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