Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be correct!

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Taleweaver
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Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be correct!

#1 Post by Taleweaver »

If you haven't seen "Serial Experiments Lain", here's a short overview:
A teenage girl named Lain, very withdrawn and shy, is given a computer and quickly becomes a computer genius. As she gets better and better, the world around her strangely changes. Things that only happen in computer simulations "bleed" into real life; children playing online tag games suddenly cause real deaths. Dead people start sending text messages on their friends' cellphones. One man believes there is a "protocol" that can allow computers to program the real world, and he tries to find that protocol in order to become a god, but before he can do that, Lain has found out that this is not necessary: The entire world is already a computer simulation, with all people inside part of that simulation, and by using simulated computers inside this simulation, you can change the world. Lain becomes a god of her world and removes all memories of her from other people.
Okay, and now for this article.
If you want the tl;dr: Scientific evidence suggests that the world is probably only a computer simulation.

Okay, anybody want to found a religion about that?
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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#2 Post by Sapphi »

How fascinating... *_*

And while it's kind of lame to write such a short post, that's about all I can say about it, lol.
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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#3 Post by Greeny »

Damn, and I thought I was the only one who figured this out.
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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#4 Post by J. Datie »

Taleweaver wrote:Okay, anybody want to found a religion about that?
You mean other than the Lainites?

Also, I'm uncomfortable that this goes against my religion that states the universe the the fictional setting of a cop show.

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#5 Post by CaseyLoufek »

Yeah once they found the Planck width I got suspicious, just a little too much like pixel resolution.

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#6 Post by AshenhartKrie »

did I just get trolled ._.
?
Cos.... now I'm paranoid.
Maybe the Matrix really IS real....
i still think i got trolled

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#7 Post by LateWhiteRabbit »

Doesn't this sort of make sense though? Like the Singularity?

Any intelligent civilization or life forms' technology will continue to advance at exponential rates, and the most natural thing (at least in our own experience) seems to be to use that technology to replicate reality. See simulation software used by scientists, movie effects, and video game worlds. It stands to reason that any civilization that survives long enough to develop computers would only need to survive a few decades or a couple of centuries longer to begin to create simulacrums of their own reality, either for testing, entertainment, or survival.

Now, keep in mind that there is a massive time differential between a computer simulation and "reality". Any intelligent being that was in a computer simulation would experience the passage of time MUCH faster than an observer watching them in reality. If one of the simulation inhabitants could look out at "reality" it would appear to almost stand still. So any civilization with sufficient technology could actually simulate the life and death of an entire universe within one of their lifetimes, provided the computing hardware was beefy enough. Whole intelligent (AIs? Beings? Simulation inhabitants?) could live and die while the programmers had a sandwich, and the simulated being would experience the full passage of "years" from their own perspective.

Let's take it one step further - let's assume that the simulation of reality is largely flawless, though optimized for speed and efficiency. At some point the technology level in the simulation itself will reach a sufficient point where the simulation inhabitants can create a virtual reality within their own virtual reality. You would have to assume that at some point the optimizations to replicate reality would compound to a point where further nesting was impossible, but theoretically you could have dozens or hundreds of nested universes at that point, only one of which (the top one) is real. Shades of the Thirteenth Floor here.

Reality being a computer simulation could also account for things like the absence of life in the universe. Extraterritorial life could very well exist in the "real world", but the programmers may not know enough or care enough to simulate it - or they exclude everything but a sphere of the universe around the Earth to optimize the simulation and save on computing costs.

Ancient gods, miracles, inexplicable events, etc. could all be simulation operators hacking or using command line functions in the system. Such events could be a very real case of avatars of the "gods". How many of us make ourselves godlike when we play game simulations?

Also, simulated realities would be a great way to escape or delay extinction in the face of the heat death of the universe. Scientists have already developed quantum clocks that could continue to function past the end of the universe - imagine using such devices to power a computer simulation with all of mankind uploaded to it? Or because of the time differential, mankind could experience millions of more years of life and advancement within a simulation, using the last light of a dying star to power an orbiting computer. Each user could get rebooted and reincarnated an infinite number of times until they forgot about being "real" at all. Basically an ark or a lifeboat for humanity by way of a "reality mmo".

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#8 Post by Taleweaver »

LateWhiteRabbit wrote: Whole intelligent (AIs? Beings? Simulation inhabitants?) could live and die while the programmers had a sandwich, and the simulated being would experience the full passage of "years" from their own perspective.
Any attorneys here who'd like to help me try sue the guy/gal who programmed me? S/he did a pretty shitty job with my life.
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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#9 Post by superhbman »

The philosophy I find closest to this idea is Solipsism, the idea that you cannot be certain if the entirety of existence might actually be real.

It is probably possible to achieve the level of technology to do so; but if so, how would we know that we are in or are simulations? I've never watched Lain, I don't know what they've got to say about this. There's also the question of why would someone do this.
As a hypothetical, let's say this reality is a simulation. What then? What are you going to do, knowing that it's all a lie?

Personally, I don't take this seriously. I think this is an exercise in making stories. I think it's also a little unhealthy to fantasize this way about your life and stuff. This is your life, that is all.

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#10 Post by LateWhiteRabbit »

superhbman wrote:The philosophy I find closest to this idea is Solipsism, the idea that you cannot be certain if the entirety of existence might actually be real.

It is probably possible to achieve the level of technology to do so; but if so, how would we know that we are in or are simulations? I've never watched Lain, I don't know what they've got to say about this. There's also the question of why would someone do this.
As a hypothetical, let's say this reality is a simulation. What then? What are you going to do, knowing that it's all a lie?

Personally, I don't take this seriously. I think this is an exercise in making stories. I think it's also a little unhealthy to fantasize this way about your life and stuff. This is your life, that is all.
Why would someone make a simulated reality? Ask anyone that plays the Sims, an MMO, or thinks the Holodeck from Star Trek would be a cool way to experience stories. In short, entertainment is the most likely answer. Maybe the biggest "reality TV" show in the (real) world.

I think it is a very important discussion to have on a moral and philosophical level, because much like the Singularity, I think we will eventually have to face the moral implications of whether we can or should make a simulated reality where all the inhabitants are intelligent and self-aware. How would we justify using intelligent AI as playthings?

As for what would you do if you found out YOU were in the simulation? Why would your life have less meaning? "I think, therefore I am." You would still exist as a sentient entity, your world would just be a different environment than you originally thought. Here too is where you face the moral implications of such a set-up. If you are an NPC in an operator's personal video game world, is it murder when they shoot you? Or rape when they arrange all of reality to seduce you?

Will any "creator" society eventually quarantine any created universes to avoid violating the rights of the artificially created entities inside them? A case of "gods" abandoning their children to give them a better chance at a free and meaningful life?

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Re: Scientific evidence points out: Anime "Lain" may be corr

#11 Post by superhbman »

I'm choose to be stubborn and stick to not wanting to wax philosophy and delving into what-ifs. I'm more interested in whether or not we are actually living in or are a simulation and that any being could actually achieve the technology to do so. I'll look further once that has been proven.

Although I think it's nice to have such discussions, and I don't mind being involved with them; but until the case is proven true, I'm not too interested in doing so. I understand and appreciate analogies, hypothetical events, and its implications, but I'm interested in the initial argument that is being asserted. I am also interested in the study and support people's interest in this topic.

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