How's about we play a little game?

[dramspringfeald]

Time Wasting FTW!!!

Anyway, Tom was going off about how we don't really do anything but waste cyberspace. How about we have a Game...Game?

You want a more "professional' and 'involved' forum dedicated to making games then here's what you do. Make it a competition. No risk No reward build lethargy and "time wasting"

It's simple really. Seeing as how This "year" is over we start planning the Rules, the Full games that will be DONE By the end of the First Quarter and take care of any 'problems' early.

A Simple Contest to promote Team Building, Better content and draws new people into the fold.

Rules
The Entry Fee would be like $10usd nonrefundable so the User/Teams would have something invested and that LSF would have a "pot" at the end.

The game can be started anytime before the contest (Years even) but the game would have to be in by the Last Day of the Quarter at 0H Greenwich Mean time.
-This gives deadlines and trains the users to work under pressure.

The Second Quarter would be Voting and Playing. At the end of that quarter would be the final vote where users would have a week to Vote. Winner has the most votes.
-Wash, rinse, Repeat. 3/4

The Winners will be chosen by Popular Votes
-Lemma Soft admins and Mods would be exempt from voting as would be the Teams making the games and anyone under 200 posts. To keep spam bots and Puppets out.

Teams will need be registered by the second week of the first quarter.
-Back to that deadline thing. Besides you have 2 months to decide if you will be in the first one anyway.

The games will have to be done entirely on RenPy
-No 'flashers' aloud.

Prizes
First place Gets 20% of the Total, Second Gets 10% and Third gets 5% Thus WE "Time Wasters" will be 'making money' and LSF will make some operating Cash.

The Other 65% goes to RenPy / LSF for site maintenance and adverts.

Other Stuff
Where other info goes.

First quarter: from the beginning of January to the end of March
Second quarter: from the beginning of April to the end of June
Third quarter: from the beginning of July to the end of September
Fourth quarter: from the beginning of October to the end of December

GMT counter < To help the contestants know WHEN it will be

Stuff We'll need by Jan.
A Paypal or like account

Trustworthy Account Holder. Most probably RenPy Staff.

Set up and established rules

Maybe a separate invite only (for posting at least) forum.

Some hard core promotion outside the forums.

Better Tutorials. Game Devlopers TEND to be more Visual or Video oriented. Sure the WIKI is nice but all most of us see is 'wall of text.' Maybe someone (Tom) would be inclined to show us how it's done. so we stop 'wasting time?'


Did I miss anything?




.

[TrickWithAKnife]

Better Tutorials. Game Devlopers TEND to be more Visual or Video oriented. Sure the WIKI is nice but all most of us see is 'wall of text.' Maybe someone (Tom) would be inclined to show us how it's done. so we stop 'wasting time?'

Tom is a busy man. When he does have time for doing this kind of thing, he is working on improving Ren'Py.
There is no reason why people from this community can't improve the tutorials. Some people have, through the Cookbook section of this forum, which has become very popular.
There is also discussion on live lessons at the moment.

As for the main idea of this topic, I can see where you're going with it. You want to inject some more energy into the creators, but I think it sets off too many alarm bells.

[Samu-kun]

I'm confused. So only 35% of the pot is used for contest prizes? Where's the remaining 65% go?

[dramspringfeald]

Better Tutorials. Game Devlopers TEND to be more Visual or Video oriented. Sure the WIKI is nice but all most of us see is 'wall of text.' Maybe someone (Tom) would be inclined to show us how it's done. so we stop 'wasting time?'

Tom is a busy man. When he does have time for doing this kind of thing, he is working on improving Ren'Py.
There is no reason why people from this community can't improve the tutorials. Some people have, through the Cookbook section of this forum, which has become very popular.
There is also discussion on live lessons at the moment.

As for the main idea of this topic, I can see where you're going with it. You want to inject some more energy into the creators, but I think it sets off too many alarm bells.

How is it setting off alarm bells? Major sites like UDK and Unity have similar game contests but they also have the income/interest for outright cash supplies as well as hiring for major positions of their companies. I some how feel that RenPy and LSF have neither. So instead of having a set cash like major dev companies I'm suggesting the "more people higher the prize will be" approach. It's much safer for our "Smaller" group. See LSF has no chance of loosing money on this and the users have a good chance of wining.

Yeah I know about the live lessons. It would be wonderful and so far we only have what, 2 people one in art the other in writing. The major problem is many of us don't have super strong internet. so if these can also be recorded for future access they would be useful.

As for the hard working part, I understand but if someone is going to come out on people 'wasting time' on a public forum then well maybe they can show us how it's supposed to be done.

I'm confused. So only 35% of the pot is used for contest prizes? Where's the remaining 65% go?

RenPy / LSF - Hopefully for taking adverts on Facebook, DA or any number of sources.

[Applegate]

Suppose 10 teams enter. That's $100 dollar. I'm not sure that spending 3 months and $10 in return for $10 profit is really reasonable. Even if we had 20 teams, that'd be $40 for a $30 profit in 3 months... and I can assure you that if someone teamed up with Mugen or something, they'd probably have something that looks really good, but most artists can earn $30 in under 3 months if their work is good enough.

Put simply I don't think the possible profit really justifies the payment you'd have to make, and this would still not stimulate creation of Visual Novels: Some of us just don't have $10 to give to a random person in hopes of making $10~$50 dollars if we're really good at making VNs.

[TrickWithAKnife]

How is it setting off alarm bells? Major sites like UDK and Unity have similar game contests but they also have the income/interest for outright cash supplies as well as hiring for major positions of their companies. I some how feel that RenPy and LSF have neither. So instead of having a set cash like major dev companies I'm suggesting the "more people higher the prize will be" approach. It's much safer for our "Smaller" group. See LSF has no chance of loosing money on this and the users have a good chance of wining.

There is a world of difference between a company offering prizes, and us sending our money to someone else on a forum.

RenPy / LSF - Hopefully for taking adverts on Facebook, DA or any number of sources.

To get more game creators to join this forum? It seems that membership of the forum isn't really a weak point. Maybe I'm missing some key point.

[Alex]

The fun ends when it comes about money, IMO

[AsagiMete]

How is it setting off alarm bells?

Because you are coming off as an angry, sarcastic troll. >.<; LSF is not a company, it is a forum. There's nobody to take the pot. A contest would be cool, but I've got a feeling you aren't focusing on the contest.

If you really want to help, invest the $10 into more free-use/creative commons resources. Write tutorials. Help rookie game makers. This whole gnashing of teeth (from everybody) over something so minor is unnerving...

[dramspringfeald]

Suppose 10 teams enter. That's $100 dollar. I'm not sure that spending 3 months and $10 in return for $10 profit is really reasonable. Even if we had 20 teams, that'd be $40 for a $30 profit in 3 months... and I can assure you that if someone teamed up with Mugen or something, they'd probably have something that looks really good, but most artists can earn $30 in under 3 months if their work is good enough.

Put simply I don't think the possible profit really justifies the payment you'd have to make, and this would still not stimulate creation of Visual Novels: Some of us just don't have $10 to give to a random person in hopes of making $10~$50 dollars if we're really good at making VNs.

That would be the issue about grass routes advertisement. I mean there's no fun if no one shows up.
If we only get 10 people I guess it would just be for bragging rights, but if this picks up after a while then maybe we could get some serious numbers. Besides psychologically speaking by having something of themselves put in people will be invested emotionally.

The Small price of $10 is a suggestion but anything over $20 would cause too much issues. That and people just wouldn't want to spend $20 on a 'contest.'

It's mostly just for fun anyway. The $10 would just be a reminder and Psyche Hook. the winnings would be icing on the cake.

~AsagiMete
Well a little yes and yes. I started the Idea as a comment about getting yelled at for dicking around but really with 2 month of working this could be a cool thing.

Now I realize LSF isn't a company, mush like UDK Forums isn't UDK, but they are affiliated and used as the main communication point for them.

Putting the money into Supplies would be cool but again that's up to the guys who run RenPy/LSF.

~Trick
The rest of the forum has been talking about just how unknown or misunderstood this forum is. Getting our name out there would help with that.

The money would simply go into the RenPy/LSF "Game Contest Cup" Sorry about making it that vague. I'll fix it soon. It would have to be an Admin / Part of the Dev team. I'm trusting some of them would be 'safe'


Again this is just an Idea to bring life and fun to this thing.


Also this was kind of how we handled our combat tournaments back in Seattle.

[Sapphi]

The fun ends when it comes about money, IMO

I like you.

I'm not sure I really want to see LSF drawing in new people in a hyper-competitive context... the Adversity Competition, which also includes monetary prizes, seems to employ a better strategy. We're still competing, but in such a way that we're all required to help each other by reading each other's works and giving honest critique, so that the community is growing in skill and togetherness. Your contest idea would benefit the community in the short run (more people, funds for Ren'Py) but might ultimately lead to a worse creative environment. To me, it sounds just like NaNoRenO, but with monetary complications...

That's just my thoughts, though. I'm pretty sleepy and out of it today, so I apologize in advance if this post sounds totally convoluted...

[bunbun]

Focusing on whether I would be interested in the contest or not, no I am not.
It just turns me off completely that I'd need to pay for a contest while only 3 person would get back their money.
Basically throwing your money off with an extremely low bet.
Too much mindset about money, there'd got to be better prizes.

To me, this is a plan which suck money out of contesters for lemma soft adverts/site maintainenence.

Just my point of view

[dramspringfeald]

The fun ends when it comes about money, IMO

I like you.

I'm not sure I really want to see LSF drawing in new people in a hyper-competitive context... the Adversity Competition, which also includes monetary prizes, seems to employ a better strategy. We're still competing, but in such a way that we're all required to help each other by reading each other's works and giving honest critique, so that the community is growing in skill and togetherness. Your contest idea would benefit the community in the short run (more people, funds for Ren'Py) but might ultimately lead to a worse creative environment. To me, it sounds just like NaNoRenO, but with monetary complications...

That's just my thoughts, though. I'm pretty sleepy and out of it today, so I apologize in advance if this post sounds totally convoluted...

Remember "Friendly competition" with no prize is what has lead to this. NASCAR racers help each other all the time, Competing soldiers give each other tips, Animation Companies go to lunch with other Animation Companies. They get paid for winning but they also hope the other guy gets better.... so they can taste the victory better.

The auto industry would still be making Model T's if everyone just held hands. Yet, because there is Friendly competition against Chevy and other Companies (Teams) they have gotten better and better. Think of LSF as the car industry and your game as a car.

I think of every one of you here as an enemy and competition. I truly hope when I put my project on here you will see me the same way.

----
~ Bunbun

Just putting $ into the conversation is just a carrot to keep them here. An anchor if you will to make sure they keep their mind in the game. There's a whole psychological aspect but anyway. The people who would be against putting cash into the game would never finish it on time anyway.

If your not into it then your not into it. Bragging rights would also be the reward. Having "I won a contest with my game" would also make selling later projects better.

So what if you loose your out $10 that's what 4 packs of smokes and a soda at least now you know what needs to be fixed. How many people Play scratch offs knowing full well they won't win?

If there are MANY people involved it shouldn't bee to hard to divide the games / prizes into their respective fields.

[LateWhiteRabbit]

I started the Idea as a comment about getting yelled at for dicking around but really with 2 month of working this could be a cool thing.

Now I realize LSF isn't a company, mush like UDK Forums isn't UDK, but they are affiliated and used as the main communication point for them.

Putting the money into Supplies would be cool but again that's up to the guys who run RenPy/LSF.

There aren't any "guys" running Ren'Py. There is ONE guy - the guy who you've been pitching a fit at - who I would say IS putting his money where his mouth is at since he is the sole creator, programmer, and (frequent) updater of the Ren'Py software. If you notice he is also providing constant, specialized, bug support.

Yes, the UDK and Polycount forums have major contests sponsored by the companies that make the software and hire people - but they offer thousands of dollars to get turnout only in the dozens. And the contest creators don't insult the company/person that makes the software they use.

And the alarm bells? Pretty much how you opened the topic in full on "spite mode", used the phrase "how's about we play a little game" for a topic header (which has never been a phrase denoting the coming of good things ever), and the suggesting of people giving money. Also the fact you seem to have no idea who PyTom is, or what he does, with the frequent referrals to the Ren'Py "company" and "staff". And you seem to be taking a general comment directed at everyone very personally, which raises, wait for it, alarm bells.

And the message PyTom has added to the bottom of the Reply Post screen isn't some elitist thing he just thought up, but a rewording of one of the first warnings to anyone that posted on the Internet decades ago.

So, the topic is in poor taste and smacks of insulting a man in his own house, in my opinion. If you truly want to do something like this, I would sanitize it to remove the impression of vindictive revenge and look into how forums like Polycount actually run these types of contests - i.e. don't charge the talent, but get sponsors. Except we don't have the wide range of potential sponsors they do. What we do have is one man who is already giving his software away for free.

[bunbun]

We will see how it goes. It's just a topic if this contest will be held and if people are interested in it or not.

I put my vote as "will not join" because the effort is not worth the money.
Surely groups will be able to pull off this sum as it is (only?) 10$ but it does discourage newbies and people who are working for free.

Sorry for discouraging but I do hope many will join. I look forward to see people giving positive feedbacks about this idea!

[TrickWithAKnife]

If you see us as enemies and competition, you are definitely in the wrong place.
We support each other.

Speaking of support, be careful about judging PyTom. This guy has been taking good care of us for a long time, and has asked for nothing in return.
There is a lot of respect for him here, and people will take comments about him not doing enough personally.