To Girls: Concerning games lacking Female Perspective

[Aines445]

I get a feeling that this is all about "Society Standards".

It's sounds much more convincing to see a man going rambo-like than a woman. (God of War, for example. Just imagine a woman with as much muscles as Kratos, struggling to fend off a giant statue's feet.)
Ada Wong doesn't seem to be out of character because she uses her wits and cunning, rather than machine gunning everything in her way.

Really? I could seriously imagine a woman GUNS BLAZING and kicking some ass, and that god of war example too XD. I'd actually love to see something like that, without being targeted for the male audience. I'd love to see a female protagonists KICKING SOME ASS XD, but that's just me.

Hmmm....But a female perspective is hard to explain. Mostly because every girl is different, and I think perspective is diferent for EVERY INDIVIDUAL. I mean, we don't think the same way, right? We're all different. I'd say the same as Vialixia on this. Imagine a guy in a cheerleader outfit killing zombies and tell me if that makes sense XD. Same for the girl in Lollipop Chainsaw. If the female protagonist has COMMON SENSE, then she's a great character. Now I'm being reminded of the topic you mentioned above XD.

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[Vialixia]

If you are making a game that appeals to a female audience, you shouldn't go with the society standard for video games considering the majority of them are created by males aimed at a male audience. I don't see what's so bad about having a physically strong women in a video game. I get fed up of seeing female characters that are really weak yet agile. That's pretty much the base of every female character ever.

[Viniciuskk]

I think it's possible to be a physically strong women, it isn't always about the intellect. Appearance-wise, if you put your female character in a bikini in a battle field, would that be acceptable if it was a man? No, so don't do it for your female character either, as the first rule. (That's what I meant by my first statement.)

It did end up being acceptable putting a hot blonde in cheerleader outfit in middle of a zombie apocalypse...

[SundownKid]

It did end up being acceptable putting a hot blonde in cheerleader outfit in middle of a zombie apocalypse...

I wouldn't call it "acceptable", at least for a female audience. Just because it was developed/sold doesn't mean it's 'acceptable' to everyone.

[Vialixia]

It wasn't acceptable to me, at least. I'm a female and I wouldn't buy that game just because it makes no sense. But some other females may feel differently, you'd have to ask them about that I guess.

[Viniciuskk]

If you are making a game that appeals to a female audience, you shouldn't go with the society standard for video games considering the majority of them are created by males aimed at a male audience. I don't see what's so bad about having a physically strong women in a video game. I get fed up of seeing female characters that are really weak yet agile. That's pretty much the base of every female character ever.

In my game (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 47&t=19452), there are horribly muscular women, but they are secondary characters. The other woman, other than the main character, isn't muscular because her fighting style involves agility.
(Demo of that story: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 45&t=19507)

I wouldn't call it "acceptable", at least for a female audience. Just because it was developed/sold doesn't mean it's 'acceptable' to everyone.

Yeah, for the female audience, it certainly wasn't. Nothing is acceptable to every single person out there, like Aines445 said, everyone has their way to think.

[SundownKid]

I think it is possible to put a non-muscular woman in Kratos' place, as long as you change the story. For example, her strenght would come from Mana (like in games, or Ki like Dragonball), but I think it would be sexist...

That's like putting a bishie in Kratos' role and making him magic powered. I'd personally think it was stupid compared to making Kratos a muscular badass. By doing that, you are locking out the male audience , just like you lock out the female audience with a gratuitously sexy woman in that role.

If all else fails, make them both sexy so it's not a double standard

[Viniciuskk]

I think it is possible to put a non-muscular woman in Kratos' place, as long as you change the story. For example, her strenght would come from Mana (like in games, or Ki like Dragonball), but I think it would be sexist...

That's like putting a bishie in Kratos' role and making him magic powered. I'd personally think it was stupid compared to making Kratos a muscular badass. By doing that, you are locking out the male audience , just like you lock out the female audience with a gratuitously sexy woman in that role.

If all else fails, make them both sexy so it's not a double standard

There are certainly many times less female muscular badasses out there though :S

Damn the society standards.

I have a feeling that God of War would have much less fame if it was a Goddess of War (with all of Kratos's muscles included.)

[SundownKid]

I have a feeling that God of War would have much less fame if it was a Goddess of War (with all of Kratos's muscles included.)

Actually, some famous characters used to be badass, at least:

Samus Aran in the 90's

...and in the 2010's

[Viniciuskk]

I have a feeling that God of War would have much less fame if it was a Goddess of War (with all of Kratos's muscles included.)

Actually, some famous characters used to be badass, at least:

Samus Aran in the 90's

...and in the 2010's

Badasses, yeah, but not as horribly muscular as Kratos, nor as almost round-world-wide famous as he is, even though the story barely makes any sense at all.

-------

We did drift away somewhat far from what I asked in this thread, but that's okay XD (From cute girls running away from monsters to badasses slaughtering monsters )

I'll follow the line of thought of the girls in the games I listed to make a few characters. Thanks for the enlightment guys

[Aines445]

everyone has their way to think.

Which is why there really isn't a female perspective, like there really shouldn't be a male perspective at all. It's like saying an homosexual person has a different perspective than heterosexual person. They have different perspectives, but not because of their sexuality, but because they're INDIVIDUALS, therefor, they have different ways of thinking. Same for gender, since we're all individuals, we're different, therefor, we don't think the same way exactly. To make a good female character, you just make an individual of the female gender. That's all. If you want to make her strong or physically weak, it's your choice, but what matters is that females should be the same level as males, since we are all individuals, for a male character you do the same thing. There are physically weak guys too, even more than girls could be. It really depends on who you are, and not on your gender. So just think of a female character with common sense (Or lack of depends on the person), and you're fine.

[Viniciuskk]

everyone has their way to think.

Which is why there really isn't a female perspective, like there really shouldn't be a male perspective at all. It's like saying an homosexual person has a different perspective than heterosexual person. They have different perspectives, but not because of their sexuality, but because they're INDIVIDUALS, therefor, they have different ways of thinking. Same for gender, since we're all individuals, we're different, therefor, we don't think the same way exactly. To make a good female character, you just make an individual of the female gender. That's all. If you want to make her strong or physically weak, it's your choice, but what matters is that females should be the same level as males, since we are all individuals, for a male character you do the same thing. There are physically weak guys too, even more than girls could be. It really depends on who you are, and not on your gender. So just think of a female character with common sense (Or lack of depends on the person), and you're fine.

You're as right as one can be, but ...
This made me remind of my teacher when I showed him that vampire story. In the first script, Kathleen, the main character, would accept the chaos way too easily. And worse: Agree to fight against bloodthirsty vampires like if it was the most common thing in the world.
This is the main problem here. There might be people who'd accept such things, but I can't stop thinking that Kathleen's character was out of place, even if I tried to make her a strong willed woman, I don't think a sane human being accepts such facts this easily... This is kinda troublesome, so I'll have to be careful :X

[Aines445]

You're as right as one can be, but ...
This made me remind of my teacher when I showed him that vampire story. In the first script, Kathleen, the main character, would accept the chaos way too easily. And worse: Agree to fight against bloodthirsty vampires like if it was the most common thing in the world.
This is the main problem here. There might be people who'd accept such things, but I can't stop thinking that Kathleen's character was out of place, even if I tried to make her a strong willed woman, I don't think a sane human being accepts such facts this easily... This is kinda troublesome, so I'll have to be careful :X

For that, you need a middle term. Like how I hate the people that just DON'T believe it no matter how many convincing evidences are put upon them in games, especially if it's the protagonist. So you should make sure you "show it to her" first-hand. I only believe what I see, so I'd only belive it if I had experienced it first-hand. So you have to make sure that she doesn't believe too easily, but also don't make her take the whole game to belive it happened. But that really depends on the personality, since people have their own pace, so I guess you have to think of her before setting that pace. How is she like? It really depends on how she is.

[Viniciuskk]

Well, she quickly believes the Hunters that all of that vampire thing is indeed happening because she fled from her town when murderous creatures were killing everyone, but I gotta find some way for her to agree to help them. She is a common woman, whose father was kind of paranoic about her safety, so he teached her how to fight, but obviously, nothing is compared to undead trying to suck your blood...
I made a demo of it and posted here in Lemma (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 45&t=19507), but you shouldn't feel pushed to read it if you don't want (since it's not your style of story), you've already helped me a lot :>

[Aines445]

Well, she quickly believes the Hunters that all of that vampire thing is indeed happening because she fled from her town when murderous creatures were killing everyone, but I gotta find some way for her to agree to help them. She is a common woman, whose father was kind of paranoic about her safety, so he teached her how to fight, but obviously, nothing is compared to undead trying to suck your blood...
I made a demo of it and posted here in Lemma (http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 45&t=19507), but you shouldn't feel pushed to read it if you don't want (since it's not your style of story), you've already helped me a lot :>

Hmm...Maybe she thinks she should, as a duty, maybe the monsters killed her father? Maybe she wants to be stronger? Maybe she just wants to kick some ass? What really matters is to have a motive, no matter how little it is, since for other people, it might seem stupid, but for the her, it might be important, like how people have a different point-of-view in things.
I think I WILL play the demo, to understand this better, and I'm not the busiest person in the world, so I have the time. Even if it's not my style, it is for other people, so leaving that aside to review it in a fair way should be the right thing to do (At least in my conscience, it is).