Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#16 Post by Gear » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:43 pm

I have no answers, but I have a question that I'm not sure anyone can answer. But I suppose I'll give it a shot.

There is a theory (haven't researched its more recent validity) that the reason green is at the center of the visible color spectrum is because the Earth's primary color is green, and our eyes adapted to that. So my question is, what if a world had been violet? Let's say that purple was the center of their spectrum. Would red things be invisible? Are there things that are infrared that we can't see because they're colored that way? Or would they appear monochrome if they were red to this person?
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#17 Post by LVUER » Thu Jun 20, 2013 5:56 pm

I don't know if this is related but I heard that no one knows the true color of something. Does the color we see now is truly the "real" color? Color is affected by light and that is sunlight... so what happens if we're not on Earth? Will the color changes?
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#18 Post by redcat » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:06 pm

Objects have no color. What we see is actually the remains of light spectrum bounced by the objects.
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#19 Post by pwisaguacate » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:39 pm

Just a thought: as long as everybody sees a color consistently, then it's probably safe to give that color a name and agree that that color is that color.

EDIT: An object may "look different" when viewed from another planet, but the object's light-reflecting properties aren't changed.

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#20 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:04 pm

What Gear is referring to is that humans have 'only' 3 colour cone receptors, blue, red and green. These allow us to see a certain spectrum of colours which form our spectrum of 'visible' light, which is only a fraction of the light that actually exists. That is the way we have evolved, but it in no way accounts for actual reality.

Butterflies have 5 colour cone types, which means they can see colours we can't. And then you have the mantis shrimp which has 16 god damn cones so who the hell knows what they see.

So the answer is most likely yes, if you changed the environment in which we evolved we would have indeed come out differently. Also, if we can see violet, we would most likely have at least both blue and red cones and be able to see everything that comes with that. Unless of course we don't abide by our standard anatomy at all, which is very possible. Basically human standards =/= universal standards.

This might be of interest to you http://www.radiolab.org/2012/may/21/
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#21 Post by PyTom » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:09 pm

LVUER wrote:I don't know if this is related but I heard that no one knows the true color of something. Does the color we see now is truly the "real" color? Color is affected by light and that is sunlight... so what happens if we're not on Earth? Will the color changes?
That happens even here on earth. In the following picture,
shadow-illusion.jpg
A and B are the same color.
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#22 Post by arachni42 » Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:10 pm

Gear wrote:There is a theory (haven't researched its more recent validity) that the reason green is at the center of the visible color spectrum is because the Earth's primary color is green, and our eyes adapted to that. So my question is, what if a world had been violet? Let's say that purple was the center of their spectrum. Would red things be invisible? Are there things that are infrared that we can't see because they're colored that way? Or would they appear monochrome if they were red to this person?
Technically, it's not a theory, but a hypothesis. ^_^ It is reasonable -- we have evolved as a product of our environment and what it was most useful for us to see -- but a bit simplistic.

Humans color vision is based on three types of receptor cells (cones): red, green, and blue (RGB). (It seems that there may be some people out there with a fourth who can distinguish between more greens.) There are many creatures on this earth with different receptors and different abilities to see the spectrum. We may think of green as the "center," but that's just us. It's not the center for all organisms.

If violet were the "center" of our spectrum, it doesn't necessarily mean we would or wouldn't see red. I am not an expert on dog vision, but I do know that they see way less of red than they see of blue. There are also organisms that see well into the ultraviolet spectrum. (Incidentally, humans might be [http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2002/ ... e.research]technically capable[/url] of seeing long wave UV light, but the lenses in our eyes normally filter it out. It apparently looks bluish white because it stimulates all three receptors.)

Objects that are colors we don't perceive would not be invisible -- our eyes handle light/dark with a different kind of receptor cell (rods). There are people in the world who are completely colorblind, but it is more like monochrome. The mechanisms involved are not universal to all life on Earth. There is variety. Some organisms see things at much lower "resolution," so I suppose you could say some things are "invisible" to them. Also, things "invisible" to us at night can be visible to some creatures. Things would be invisible in a world where your eyes did not detect light in the spectrum given off by the sun, but eyes like that wouldn't be very advantageous for evolution. :)
LVUER wrote:I don't know if this is related but I heard that no one knows the true color of something. Does the color we see now is truly the "real" color? Color is affected by light and that is sunlight... so what happens if we're not on Earth? Will the color changes?
I would say there is not really a "true" color. As mentioned, objects don't have colors, only reflections of light. Things look different colors in different lighting, because different lighting is giving off different levels of the colors in the spectrum -- which means that the colors in the reflected light look different to your eye. You don't have to leave Earth; you can see it by comparing the color of things at noon verses sunset. A "green" plant may look "brown" because at sunset, there is relatively little green light for it to reflect.

So, things could look different on different planets as a function of the spectrum of the lighting. But it's a predictable difference, and we see this type of difference all of the time in day-to-day life.

As an aside, there is a some variation among humans with normal color vision physiologically and possibly neurologically. For example, the lens yellows as you age, making everything look a little tinted compared to someone with a normal lens. (People who have cataract surgery sometimes report a dramatic change in color perception.) Some people (including myself) actually see a slightly different "tint" of color in each eye. (For some reason, everything has a very slightly warmer cast in my right eye. Obviously, nothing about the lighting or the object changes if I look with one eye and then the other, but my brain must be getting a slightly different signal.)

I hope this helps everyone writing VNs that take place on other planets. ^_^
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#23 Post by akizakura » Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:23 am

Great thread idea, BL! Reminds me of the Research forum on the NaNoWriMo site. I'm sure I'll be back with some questions soon.
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Auro-Cyanide wrote: And then you have the mantis shrimp which has 16 god damn cones so who the hell knows what they see.
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#24 Post by Reikun » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:26 am

akizakura wrote:Great thread idea, BL! Reminds me of the Research forum on the NaNoWriMo site. I'm sure I'll be back with some questions soon.
Does anyone else find it a little ironic that Blue Lemma's "acronym" comes out as "BL"? /brick'd
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#25 Post by LVUER » Sat Jun 22, 2013 4:58 am

Not to be feminist or anything, but we must admit male body is physically better than female. That's why all sports (that I know) is divided by gender. Now I want to know what sports (all kind of sports) that doesn't have this division. Meaning males and females are mixed up. Or if there is one, sports that female actually have edge/advantageous over males (not because there is no male category for that or because we don't want to see males doing that).

I know chess and billiard are considered as sports too even if they're not physically oriented... but they still divide between male and female, right?
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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#26 Post by SundownKid » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:32 am

Reikun wrote:
SundownKid wrote:It's not affected at all. The bullet will rip through your skin and continue on to the target, or stop in your skin, unless you're made of metal.
Thanks! I was looking at a book that mentioned a lot of stuff about bullets rebounding into wounds and changing trajectory and all this stuff I didn't really understand, but I guess grazing skin is too little resistance to dramatically affect the bullet's path.
If it hits your bone or goes deep into your skin, it might ricochet or change trajectory. But I doubt that would happen if it just grazed the skin as you said.
LVUER wrote:Not to be feminist or anything, but we must admit male body is physically better than female. That's why all sports (that I know) is divided by gender. Now I want to know what sports (all kind of sports) that doesn't have this division. Meaning males and females are mixed up. Or if there is one, sports that female actually have edge/advantageous over males (not because there is no male category for that or because we don't want to see males doing that).

I know chess and billiard are considered as sports too even if they're not physically oriented... but they still divide between male and female, right?
Most physical sports are divided along male/female lines due to the overall difference in physical strength. While a skilled female athlete is a lot stronger than an amateur male athlete, highly trained guys are always going to be more powerful on average. This even applies to seemingly innocuous stuff like table tennis.

Any type of sports that requires more mental than physical effort, like chess, can be co-ed. Chess might seem separated, but that's just because it's mostly made up of male players. I don't think there is much difference in brainpower, if any, that could cause such a thing to be separated. Men and women are about equal.

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#27 Post by Auro-Cyanide » Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:45 am

LVUER wrote:Not to be feminist or anything, but we must admit male body is physically better than female. That's why all sports (that I know) is divided by gender. Now I want to know what sports (all kind of sports) that doesn't have this division. Meaning males and females are mixed up. Or if there is one, sports that female actually have edge/advantageous over males (not because there is no male category for that or because we don't want to see males doing that).

I know chess and billiard are considered as sports too even if they're not physically oriented... but they still divide between male and female, right?
Actually, females on average have better smell, taste, hearing, sight and touch (which are generally tied to either hormones or a greater number of sensors), as well as greater dexterity and threshold of pain. We just don't have sports that measure those aspects as often as we do physical strength (and generally wouldn't be very exciting to watch anyway) :) Don't forget that women were banned from the olympics and generally from sports for many years so sports weren't exactly built with them in mind. However, in sports that aren't directly related to the strength of muscles, woman potentially could do better than men. For instance, archery or sharp shooting. Skiing, ice skating, gymnastics, surfing, horse riding, those types of sports. They aren't based as much on strength and are instead based in other aspects like accuracy, flexibility and skill. And tennis, golf and bowling has mixed teams at international levels.

Also depending on what you are going for, women aren't dramatically worse then men in a lot of cases. They might not be able to weight lift as much, but there is less than a second between the fastest 100m man and woman (which is a lot on that level, but from a human aspect it's not a huge difference).

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#28 Post by o v e n » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:37 am

LVUER wrote:Not to be feminist or anything, but we must admit male body is physically better than female. That's why all sports (that I know) is divided by gender. Now I want to know what sports (all kind of sports) that doesn't have this division. Meaning males and females are mixed up. Or if there is one, sports that female actually have edge/advantageous over males (not because there is no male category for that or because we don't want to see males doing that).

I know chess and billiard are considered as sports too even if they're not physically oriented... but they still divide between male and female, right?

Not 'better', just different. Cross-country snow-shoeing, for example, women can excel at better than even the testosterone-gifted male body. For one, female bodies store more fat. Snow is cold, the fatigue alone in a body keeping itself warm would put a low-bmi male at disadvantage right off the bat. Also, bone structure and stride. Women have wider hips, and while this might not mean a longer or faster stride, it means a sturdier balance and greater capacity for core strength and carrying capability. If you notice, a lot of highlight (olympic) sports are fast-burn. Speed, strength competitions, not much for endurance or (as the example in gymnastics) balance.

The females in my platoon could not ruck-march as fast as the males, but they could definitely march longer and carry the same amount of weight with very little impediment - and it all had to do with lack of testosterone burning through their energy reserves (body fat) and the wider set of their core support. You'd also see this example in nomadic tribes - guess who are on the horses, and who are going on foot carrying the children? This is a practical setup - men on horses in case there is an attack and they need to expend their energies to a short burst of violence, and women using their stamina to help transport children and supplies.

The females in my platoon were also (by the numbers) better marksmen - no idea why/if marksman competitions are separated by gender - maybe the strength required to pull back a longbow? But for rifles and the like, spatial reasoning and quality of sight depended entirely on the individual squeezing the trigger and not at all on the gender of that persons.

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#29 Post by TsukiShima » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:29 am

I've been wondering, what actually happens to the clothes if we don't wash them?
Take a perfectly clean shirt, you wore it for a short time, say, for a photography session and while wearing it, you sweat a lot. But because it doesn't look too dirty, and there's no stains or any chemicals on it, you decided not to wash it. Then later you wear it again. And again, you decide not to clean it. Will something happen to the clothes in a long period? :/

Also another question;

What do you think about the historical figure, Joan of Arc? What does your religion think about her?
I've been doing a research about her and browse through what Islam thought about her, whether she's really a holy warrior or she was idealistic. Since she was a Christian, I wanted to know how other religions viewed her. Yes, her existence, histories, and noble sacrifice is really something to admire. In fact, as a female, I really do. To fight alongside with the males, and to have no one believed her at first must been hard for her. She was someone who was considered good, and religious at that. The Christians themselves are divided into two, if I'm not wrong. So how does the Christians themselves think about her?

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Re: Pick the forum members' brains for your game :)

#30 Post by lemonscent » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:11 am

^ About your first question, I don't think anything will happen to the clothes, but it's definitely going to stink. A lot.
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