Honest Critique

Forum organization and occasional community-building.
Forum rules
Questions about Ren'Py should go in the Ren'Py Questions and Announcements forum.
Message
Author
User avatar
Tempus
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:37 am
Completed: Ladykiller in a Bind
Projects: StoryDevs
Tumblr: jakebowkett
Deviantart: jakebowkett
Location: Australia
Contact:

Honest Critique

#1 Post by Tempus » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:07 am

Image
The goal of this initiative is to give forum members a way to show each other they are open to honest criticism. By displaying the honest criticism button or text in their signature, members can signal to one another they're looking for honest feedback. This was mostly inspired by this thread as well as TrickWithAKnife's forum signature stating something similar in meaning to the principles listed below. Here's how it works:
  1. By displaying the Honest Criticism Button, I am announcing I want to receive honest feedback.
  2. I want other members to feel comfortable giving me honest feedback.
  3. I understand that not everyone knows how to give proper critiques, and I may receive some feedback that is overly negative or unfair, but I can handle that, because I believe the honest feedback I get will outweigh the negative.
Thanks to LateWhiteRabbit for reworking my rule book epic into the improved and concise points listed above.

---

Critiquing is a skill in itself which is improved over time by giving, receiving and observing criticism. Its goal is to help the creator improve and grow. Here's some links to get started:
---

Put the code below in your signature to add the button or text. Both link back to this thread.

- New button BBtag, courtesy of PyTom

Code: Select all

[url=http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23057][wki]honest_critique.png[/wki][/url]
Honest Critique - text version

Code: Select all

[url=http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=23057][color=#408000][b]Honest Critique[/b][/color][/url]
---

Comments, suggestions and critique encouraged. And a big thanks to everyone who has provided feedback so far.
Last edited by Tempus on Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:33 am, edited 6 times in total.
StoryDevs — easy-to-search profiles for VN devs (under construction!)

User avatar
Nayara NightRoo
Regular
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:13 pm
Projects: The Curse
Location: Spain
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#2 Post by Nayara NightRoo » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:50 am

Okay, now I admire you... :shock: I think this is a great initiative, and... well, I'm not really good at critiques, so I can't tell you any more. :roll:
I'll probably use it when I release my first VN... although the button is a little scary someway. :oops:
If you can't do anything, why do you worry? And if you can do something... why do you worry?
The Curse | Honest Critique

User avatar
Taleweaver
Writing Maniac
Posts: 3369
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:51 am
Completed: Metropolitan Blues, The Loyal Kinsman, Daemonophilia, The Dreaming, The Thirteenth Year, Adrift, Bionic Heart 2, Secrets of the Wolf, The Photographer
Projects: The Pilgrim's Path, Elspeth's Garden, Secret Adventure Game!
Organization: Tall Tales Productions
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#3 Post by Taleweaver » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:16 am

Nice idea! I support it!
Scriptwriter and producer of Metropolitan Blues
Creator of The Loyal Kinsman
Scriptwriter and director of Daemonophilia
Scriptwriter and director of The Dreaming
Scriptwriter of Zenith Chronicles
Scriptwriter and director of The Thirteenth Year
Scriptwriter and director of Romance is Dead
Scriptwriter and producer of Adrift
More about me in my blog
"Adrift - Like Ever17, but without the Deus Ex Machina" - HigurashiKira

User avatar
chocojax
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:27 am
Completed: http://art.jphi.me/projects
Projects: Umbra, Familiarity, Maleficent Justice
Organization: spaceNote
Tumblr: chocojax
Github: jenniferphi
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#4 Post by chocojax » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:21 am

Sounds like a neat idea.

(I was gonna say, 'Why need it when they can clearly state it in their post?', but let's see where this goes. I always wanna give critique on art threads, but it's difficult to see if they want critique or not, etc. :V)

User avatar
Reikun
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:57 pm
Completed: Ciikos Bridge, Helena's Flowers, The Madness
Projects: Fox in the Hollyhocks
Organization: skyharborr
Tumblr: skyharborr
itch: skyharborr
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#5 Post by Reikun » Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:38 am

Should there be some way to opt-out of this for a specific post? For example, a member posts a one-off chibi doodle in their personal art thread but they just want to share it and don't want critique on it because they already have a good idea of how it could be improved or it was just a warm up. I guess they should note it on a per-post basis?
ImageImageImage

fastest way to contact me: DM @skyharborr on twitter

User avatar
Tempus
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:37 am
Completed: Ladykiller in a Bind
Projects: StoryDevs
Tumblr: jakebowkett
Deviantart: jakebowkett
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#6 Post by Tempus » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:22 am

Cool, cool, replies!
Nayara NightRoo wrote:Okay, now I admire you... :shock: I think this is a great initiative, and... well, I'm not really good at critiques, so I can't tell you any more. :roll:
I'll probably use it when I release my first VN... although the button is a little scary someway. :oops:
Glad to hear it :) I think critiquing is a skill in itself. You'll get better the more you learn and try it. I've also found critiquing others teaches me a lot about myself. It can be a little scary, though I've noticed I'm usually most nervous anticipating critique, rather than receiving it. The people who critique others (mostly) just want to help.
chocojax wrote:(I was gonna say, 'Why need it when they can clearly state it in their post?', but let's see where this goes. I always wanna give critique on art threads, but it's difficult to see if they want critique or not, etc. :V)
Yep, that's exactly why I created the signature display -- in posts ranging from over a year ago up until the present, I noticed people saying they never knew when someone wanted critique and didn't respond to people anymore because they'd had bad experiences in the past, such as people ignoring the critique, getting upset, or giving rude responses. Happy to hear you like the idea ^.^
Reikun wrote:Should there be some way to opt-out of this for a specific post? For example, a member posts a one-off chibi doodle in their personal art thread but they just want to share it and don't want critique on it because they already have a good idea of how it could be improved or it was just a warm up. I guess they should note it on a per-post basis?
Originally I had the recruitment & services forum excluded and had considered allowing people to opt out for times they don't want critique.

In the case of recruitment & services I thought it was ultimately best to include it since a.) people sometimes already give unsolicited honest critique there anyway, especially when money is involved and b.) I'd like to be able to see how people recruiting / offering services react to critique since people on both sides are investing time, effort and sometimes money -- it's certainly not a place where you want less criticism. But on the other hand, you don't want recruitment threads to become analyses of works...

The reason I chose not to allow opting out for specific posts is that it's very open to manipulative use. People might simply opt out any time they're anticipating a negative critique. Opt outs with reasoning like "this isn't serious work so I don't need critique" could become a crutch for dodging criticism. Of course, there's other ways to do that -- people could take the button or text in and out of their signature as it pleases them. But at the least, it's not a flaw defended by the guidelines. Then again, if enough people mention it perhaps it would be worth considering -- a good system adapts to the needs of those using it.

Thanks for the comments so far!
StoryDevs — easy-to-search profiles for VN devs (under construction!)

User avatar
JumpJump
Veteran
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:11 pm
Projects: 9413
Organization: 2wo dollars
Location: That itch on your back!
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#7 Post by JumpJump » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:47 am

Thanks for this.
"You are the master of understatement, chief. You had a foursome with the Elephant Man and a couple of foreign princesses. I'd head on out before the paparazzi arrive, if I were you." - Barry the time travelling sprout

Image
Old and new, whatever you want. All is here.


User avatar
Armee
Veteran
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:34 am
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#8 Post by Armee » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:54 am

Ah, might as well put one in my siggy.

User avatar
TrickWithAKnife
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1261
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:38 am
Projects: Rika
Organization: Solo (for now)
IRC Nick: Trick
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#9 Post by TrickWithAKnife » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:36 am

It's a terrible idea, and I will never... wait... *checks signature* Damn it!
"We must teach them through the tools with which they are comfortable."
The #renpy IRC channel is a great place to chat with other devs. Due to the nature of IRC and timezone differences, people probably won't reply right away.

If you'd like to view or use any code from my VN PM me. All code is freely available without restriction, but also without warranty or (much) support.

User avatar
Maelstrom-Fenrir
Regular
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:09 am
Completed: Shadow on the Bridge, Time Labyrinth
Projects: Porcelain Heart, Umbra
Organization: Black Witch Project
Skype: Maelstrom-Fenrir
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#10 Post by Maelstrom-Fenrir » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:01 pm

Personally, I think this is a great idea.
Image

User avatar
MaiMai
Yandere
Posts: 1756
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:04 pm
Completed: [Phase Shift]
Projects: [ None ]
Organization: Paper Stars
Tumblr: maiscribbles
Deviantart: maiscribble
Location: USA, Southern California
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#11 Post by MaiMai » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:06 pm

Redacted!
Last edited by MaiMai on Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Image COMMISSIONS AVAILABLE (check Tumblr sidebar)

CheeryMoya
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 892
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:09 am

Re: Honest Critique

#12 Post by CheeryMoya » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:27 pm

This initiative won't do much if people don't know how to critique in the first place. I googled a few links that might be good for people new to this: Maybe include these at the bottom of your post so they're easy to find for newbies?

Also, I ran out of link space so my HC text doesn't link back to this thread :C The 5 links cap is way too little sometimes...

User avatar
sake-bento
Eileen-Class Veteran
Posts: 1878
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:58 pm
Completed: http://sakevisual.com/games.html
Projects: Every Sunrise, Shinsei
Organization: sakevisual
Tumblr: sakevisual
Deviantart: sakevisual
itch: sakevisual
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#13 Post by sake-bento » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:33 pm

Hey gang, PyTom just posted this on his twitter:
Can people hold off adding the LSF critique tags for a few hours? I want to add a bbtag for them, but I'm on a jet plane.
Also, echoing CheeryMoya's statement. Critique is also a skill that needs to be learned, and part of improvement isn't just pointing out what can be better, but articulating it in a way that is useful. Those are very, very handy references.

User avatar
Greeny
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 921
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:15 am
Completed: The Loop, The Madness
Projects: In Orbit, TBA
Organization: Gliese Productions
Location: Cantankerous Castle
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#14 Post by Greeny » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:39 pm

Anyone who posts a critique to someone displaying the honest critque button agrees:
Am I the only one who has a problem with this? I never agreed to anything.
This seems iffy to me, if only out of principles.
In Orbit [WIP] | Gliese is now doing weekly erratic VN reviews! The latest: Halloween Otome!
Gliese Productions | Facebook | Twitter
Image

User avatar
chocojax
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 694
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:27 am
Completed: http://art.jphi.me/projects
Projects: Umbra, Familiarity, Maleficent Justice
Organization: spaceNote
Tumblr: chocojax
Github: jenniferphi
Location: California
Contact:

Re: Honest Critique

#15 Post by chocojax » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:44 pm

Greeny wrote:Am I the only one who has a problem with this? I never agreed to anything.
I thought that part could be entirely left out, since critique by anyone should be valid. (Of course, I understood the, "say X is bad because of Y" rather than "X is bad".)

Also, I kinda feel like this would make certain people look down on members who wouldn't display this in their signature.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users