List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

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Omniknight
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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#16 Post by Omniknight » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:07 pm

KomiTsuku wrote:OBJECTION!

I find it interesting that we reference the veteran developers in this. Mostly because have you looked at some of the old art? The original Ripples is a great example. It wasn't that good. Not a lot in the old days was outstanding, but these were the days when there were so few EVNs that you could release one and you had an audience no matter what. Nowadays, we don't have an environment like that. It's a lot harder to garnish attention for people to play your game; the standards have also jumped up considerably because of the veterans who survived with the support of the community. If we continue to only praise the outstanding ones and ignore our rookies, it is going to end up killing the community in the long run. I'm not saying that we need to pander and coddle them, but there's nothing that kills motivation faster than being ignored repeatedly.
We can then implement a league (Master's League, Veteran's League, Rookie's League, Beginner's League etc.) and have people sign up for different leagues so they can compete people around their respective calibers. It's just like how we have a Triple A league compared to Major league in baseball here in US.

Whaddaya think? ;)

EDIT: I'll probably sign up for the Rookie's League.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#17 Post by Obscura » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:08 pm

But uh, just to clarify, I don't think LSF or the Renpy site has any filter of sorts, and it would be really weird if it did. VNDB is your best bet or just taking an informal survey from players here.
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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#18 Post by Omniknight » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:10 pm

Obscura wrote:But uh, just to clarify, I don't think LSF or the Renpy site has any filter of sorts, and it would be really weird if it did. VNDB is your best bet or just taking an informal survey from players here.
I feel VNDB is ineffective because it houses all visual novels ever produced (did I go overboard? XD.) Compared to VNDB, lemmasoft is a sanctuary for aspiring developers whose works often won't see much light in a commercial sense. For example, the VN I'm making simply can't be compared to Clannad or Majikoi, for reasons I'm sure we all know. As for the filter, we can make multiple threads with titles pertaining to the respective leagues.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#19 Post by Omniknight » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:11 pm

There is a high possibility that I might start this project sometime today in the general discussions section.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#20 Post by Omnificent » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:21 pm

Omniknight, what did I say about edit-not-double-post?! D:<

But seriously. Go finish the demo for your game. Get a sense for the amount of effort it takes to complete a visual novel in the first place, even with how easy Ren'py makes it. Communicate with and try to establish an actual rapport with your art team. Then come back to the discussion a little more enlightened.

Also, who says we shouldn't be shooting to defeat the likes of FSN or Umineko?
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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#21 Post by VNQuality » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:45 pm

Omniknight wrote:......if you're going to become discouraged by people better than you when you made 17 posts, I'm sorry, WAKE UP. With that kind of motivation/attitude/devotion, it's highly unlikely you'll complete the VN you're working on anyway...
The problem is not that I allegedly discouraged. My abilities don't depend on the posts. I know that I am better prepared to CG, than the casual user.
I would say that the process of search qualitative, independent visual novels makes me think about suicide because of his impossibility.

There also get and WIP Projects. They are drowning in dozens of newcomers.
I was just so exasperated that I have to scroll through the dozens of pages that would simply pull out of the total weight of what I was looking for. I do not know, maybe it's due to the fact that I do not know so well the damn English

When I talked about "commercial" novels, I mean those who only pretend of бе commercial.
Just try to search by tags and you'll understand.
It does not envy, I guarantee it :)

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#22 Post by VNQuality » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:48 pm

Obscura wrote:This would actually be a good job for a VN reviewer or aspiring (?) VN reviewer. Creatings lists of VNs noted for different things (good art, writing, best mystery, horror, etc.).

Or you could simply ask users here to list the top 5 VNs or so that they've found to be the best looking in terms of art.
Why do I need them TOP 5, if I'm looking for novels themselves? :)

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#23 Post by Omniknight » Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:51 pm

VNQuality wrote:
Omniknight wrote:......if you're going to become discouraged by people better than you when you made 17 posts, I'm sorry, WAKE UP. With that kind of motivation/attitude/devotion, it's highly unlikely you'll complete the VN you're working on anyway...
The problem is not that I allegedly discouraged. My abilities don't depend on the posts. I know that I am better prepared to CG, than the casual user.
I would say that the process of search qualitative, independent visual novels makes me think about suicide because of his impossibility.

There also get and WIP Projects. They are drowning in dozens of newcomers.
I was just so exasperated that I have to scroll through the dozens of pages that would simply pull out of the total weight of what I was looking for. I do not know, maybe it's due to the fact that I do not know so well the damn English

When I talked about "commercial" novels, I mean those who only pretend of бе commercial.
Just try to search by tags and you'll understand.
It does not envy, I guarantee it :)

I support this wholeheartedly.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#24 Post by VNQuality » Sun Jan 12, 2014 5:13 pm

I feel so, whether i also trying to push through my square mentality into a round hole.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#25 Post by sake-bento » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:03 pm

Admin reminder: Double-posting is prohibited in the forum rules. Any double posts after this will be met with forum warnings.

This has been a reminder from your friendly, neighborhood admin.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#26 Post by Deji » Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:26 pm

The thing is, as a community we don't care that much about the quality of the games produced versus the quantity: you guy would rather see made less games with better quality, while we would rather see tons of games with whatever quality.

It may not make sense to you, but it does to us: we want as many people possible trying Ren'py, making games and having fun with it. That's the sole objective of this community. We're all equal here posting our stuff, helping each other, checking eachother's works.
We may not be very critical (we've been accused of that multiple times and that this facts encourages a lot of mediocre work), but we don't need to be critical, because that's not what we're after.

People that want to (and have the skills to) do awesome high quality games will make them regardless of what happens inside this community. And we want to welcome EVERYBODY, even if the can only do scribbles with paint or write crappy stuff (like me, for example!).

So I agree with earlier posters that, if you want a list with good/pretty games, you are better off finding or making it outside the forums.
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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#27 Post by rakada » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:01 pm

while don't you guys just make a site where you can post your personal fav top 10 games and post links to them?

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#28 Post by VNQuality » Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:54 am

rakada wrote:while don't you guys just make a site where you can post your personal fav top 10 games and post links to them?
What are you talking about?
I said that I just want an easy search.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#29 Post by angeliza » Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:30 am

mugenjohncel wrote:This will Open a whole Can of Worms...

Please don't do this... not only it is "disgusting" in general it actually demotivates people who are still what can be considered as "budding" future OELVN devs... and will inadvertently lead to elitism and circle jerking. Something most people here want to avoid.

Take me for example:

In the Ren'py Main site, there is a section in there where select Ren'py made OELVN's are randomly rotated and highlighted for everyone to see. Sure there is a good reason why they are there. They contain Ren'py milestones but still... as a creator I still get envious and somewhat depressed when I see theirs is placed there being highlighted for everyone to see while my works are not and are buried in obscurity. ..
I wouldn't say "burried in obscurity"...
I saw three of yours in the android market while searching for visual novels!
*one had the dude on your avatar, and the other two seemed to be done by the same person in a simular style, so I asume they're yours*

They looked prety good!^^
I got abunch of other games to finish before I download more, though.

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Re: List (or filter) of visual novels by quality?(DIWIC?)

#30 Post by Trixar_za » Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:03 am

In arguments like this I always point to Quantity Always Trumps Quality. If your intention is to produce a 'quality' game, then it will be lost in development hell. If your intention is to produce a lot of games, regardless of quality, you will eventually start producing better games (through trial and error) than somebody that's aiming to only produce one quality game.

As a noob, I would like to mention that it's hard to produce a Visual Novel. Actually, it's hard to produce a good one anyway. I've produced a few still births in the last few months that I hope will never see the light of day. But each time teaches me a little something about Ren'py, writing, using assets to set the mood and even a bit about myself. I'm still scared to release a game because I know it will probably be bad. I don't however see the point in intentionally making a game that's bad. I tried to join in on the Worst VN event, but I realized that I really don't want my first game to be intentionally badly made. If I release a game, I want it to be bad by accident, not intention :P

That said, a rating system would be bad for somebody like me. Imagine people giving your first attempt a 1/10 and making comments like "This is shit" and "You should give up". I'd probably argue a bit, throw a fit and leave - forever.

We should NOT be encouraging people to make better games. We should be encouraging them to start making games and to make as many as they can. Eventually, the noobs will turn into the vets and their games will become better each try... but that's just my opinion ;)
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