In 2050, your lover may be a ... robot

[Ren]

That's interesting, it's something I read in a novel about someone who took the place of the heir of an old woman, pretending to be back home after a long time or something: he didn't make any effort to look like him because he thought that even the smallest difference would have given it away(and that being totally different was better, apparently)...I guess it's the same principle?

Anyway, some sort of walking Motoko Kusanagi or Chii would be interesting to see :3

[PyTom]

The effect is called the "Uncanny Valley". The more something looks like a human without looking exactly like a human, the more unsettled people are.

You see this alot in CG movies. People have no problem dealing with things like robots (WALL-E), ogres (Shrek) or even stylized humans (The Incredibles). But when you aim to have photorealistic humans (Final Fantasy: The Movie), and fail, it looks far worse than more stylized animation.

[Vatina]

Oh, so that's what it's called. Then I guess Sin already mentioned it

[DaFool]

A lot of japanese robot makers buy silicone love dolls and shuv all of their equipment inside. I agree that she looks creepy. It's that uncanny valley thing.
That said.. I can't blame them for messing up the face and eyelids. I imagine that's reaaaally hard to do right.

I think they got the whole approach wrong. Instead of transporting the robot's digital data to the physical realm, they should instead transport the person's data onto the digital realm.

In other words, if I were to interact with an AI, I'd rather project myself as an anime persona and interact in a virtual environment. I mean, just attach electrodes to my body and I can participate in an interactive hentai. Then in the virtual display, they can just use the bare minimum of lines and colors to create the "illusion of life" (Walt Disney's definition of animation).

That's why there's such a disjoint between those who'll only watch 3D animation and those who still appreciate 2D. Those who are 3D-only just don't get it... they are stuck in the 'what I see that is realistic is the only thing realistic' mindset while at the same time not quite pinpointing what is wrong with movies like Final Fantasy Spirits Within.

There's too much effort to do the 3D-realism conversion. On the other hand, using the principles of animation (the 'illusion of life'), one could say -- convert a girlfriend to 2D -- and everything that was appealing to a person as flesh and bones (personality, emotional / spiritual essence) would not be diminished by the conversion. Sure, her tits would have less texture, but then again, she'll get perfect skin!

If the world were a Matrix, I'd be the first to crash the 3D rendering servers and replace them with Makoto Shinkai-designed environments -- which, though still using 3D in certain areas, retain the wondrous more-beautiful-than-real essence of 2D.

[Samu-kun]

Actually daFool, a virtual reality girlfriend would need to be 3D rendered because it's impossible to give a 2D girl an unlimited range of actions. XD But that doesn't mean that she couldn't be modeled to look like an anime girl and just cel shaded. 3D can be made to look almost exactly like 2D if you want to, in any case.

But I guess that would just be a high-tech extension of dating sims. The technology for that has already been made, but I just don't think it's readily available for the average user yet. :3

[LVUER]

XD But that doesn't mean that she couldn't be modeled to look like an anime girl and just cel shaded. 3D can be made to look almost exactly like 2D if you want to, in any case.

Like the latest Apple Seed? Full 3D CGI but the characters are heavily cell-shaded that it looks like 2D animation.

[PyTom]

3D can be made to look almost exactly like 2D if you want to, in any case.

I'm not sure that's the case, actually. The anime style tends to cheat a lot, so that it's not actually possible to come up with a consistent 3d model that properly represents an anime character's head. For example, the placement of the mouth is often different in a profile and head-on view.

(I guess you could cheat by changing the character model based on the angle the viewer is seeing the character from, though.)

[mikey]

Let's put it in this topic, I don't want to open a new one... anyway...

When I came home today my wife told me of a survey she saw on TV by the condom company Durex (Durex global sex survey) which says that surprise surprise the Japanese have the least sex in the world - and also, their orgasm rate is also the lowest, beaten only by the Chinese.

I don't actually draw any conclusions from this (in regards to hentai or artificial girlfriends), but it's nevertheless very interesting information.

[N0UGHTS]

A relationship with a robot lover? Sure, why not. And that sexy robot maid of mine and I will be in a "sexy maid/master" relationship. Yeah... That sounds good.

What? I don't think anyone put any specifics on the kinds of relationships to be discussed. But if someone has, forgive me... I skimmed through the thread a little.

On the topic whether someone can really fall in love with a robot... Well, gee, if people can fall in love with non-existent beings (...I was really stressed back then... Stop staring), then I don't see what's so hard about falling in love with something that a human can actually almost connect to. As to whether a robot can "love" a person, well, the answer to that varies depending on the people you ask. If you're asking a nihilistic sociobiologist, then they may say it's possible if the robot was programmed to "favor" things "good," as defined by what the programmer defines as "good." If you're talking to a zealous teenager who believes in souls and etc., well... You know, I once read a thread on some forum questioning the true essence of a "soul"... It drifted off to robots (my fault :laughs:) and eventually, there was someone who posted something like, "NO! Only things that are born have SOULS! Robots do not have SOULS! Robots are not FETUSES or INTELLIGENT, LEARNING BEINGS!"

The answer to whether robots can love, well... Obviously there isn't going to be an answer that can satisfy everybody. But hey, at least the answers to whether an individual will get a robot lover (or seven... :cough:) are definite and clear.

[Sin]

I remember in the article where I saw pictures of her, they were talking about making robots look like humans. It was said that the more a robot looked like a human, without looking exactly the same, the more people would dislike it (maybe even fear it). If it couldn't look exactly like us, people would find it easier to like and feel sympathy for robots that obviously looked like robots (like those robot dogs, or a C3PO. Or maybe with Chobits ears? )

I guess I can see the point in that - sometimes they can end up looking like some kind of walking dead person with those eyes and faces they have, because it's so hard to make them look "alive". But maybe they will overcome that some day.

That's what's called "The uncanny valley". There's actually a lot of research on this.



The idea is that we familiarize more with more human-like things, but somewhere before something becomes hyper-realistic we suddently begin to react negatively to it.
So for instance we can familiarize with a smiley-face or a teddy bear but a near human robot or dolls gross us out. It's a perfectly normal phychological response.

[Nebi]

The idea is that we familiarize more with more human-like things, but somewhere before something becomes hyper-realistic we suddently begin to react negatively to it.

I feel the negativity comes more from insecurity or an awareness of one's own shortcomings when observing an object that exhibits hyper-realistic human actions or behavior. Also, the seeming lack of hesitation or doubt in a robot gives them almost infinite motivation and/or determination to accomplish a task, whereas even the most disciplined human might get distracted. Those kinds of possibilities strike a chord in people because it almost makes them feel...inferior? When you lose the feeling of control it will likely be replaced by apprehension, and ultimately, fear.

This issue is not only discussed in robotics but nanotechnology as well!

Wikipedia Article on Andriods:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android

[Sin]

I feel the negativity comes more from insecurity or an awareness of one's own shortcomings when observing an object that exhibits hyper-realistic human actions or behavior.

I think you're talking about a thing that is indistiguishable from a human being and the repercussions of interacting with a non-human. The uncanny valley only applies to objects that are near-but-not-quite-realistic. It has to do with how our brain reads faces.

[Der Tor]

yeah... in 2050, your lover may be a robot and Borgs and Terminaters will be the offspring

*we are Borg, you will be assimilated... resistance is futile... your biological and technological distinctiveness will be joined with our own... your live as it has been is over... from this time forward you will service us*

(by the way my vacuum cleaning robot is just vacuuming our house just now... it's so cool... it recognizes the entire room and does everything automaticly and it goes to recharge itself when done... and it's got those cool laserbeam infered light thingies to kill huma... ahhh... i mean to kil germs...)

[rocket]

Whilst we discuss, greater minds just cut to the chase and make an anime on the topic:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclo ... hp?id=7998

I've seen the first episode and I am absolutely in love!

p.s.
Apologies for the necromancy, but this was far too much on topic to make a new thread.

[Der Tor]

they are 2 takes on this... one is the famous Frankenstein where Frankenstein ultimetily comes to realize that a man made creation also posses all of man's greed and can never be better than man only worse and that he should have left the creation to God.

The other take is as it's seen in the Star trek episode "the measure of a man" where androids are used as slaves and have no rights. But in this case the robots are only an anology to human slaves - the episode isn't really about android slaves - it's about human slavery - the android is nothing more than an anology to real human slavery.

Here are more real Androids:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gD1tjTsBsJc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyIHzCsb ... re=related

As for myself - what frightens me about androids are not their distinctions to humans - but precisly their similarities - the more they are like humans the more it scarres me - i mean humans themselves with their greed and vilonce and hate and lust are allready pretty scary - but if you have a machine that can emulate all that but isn't constraint by a human conscience - no remorse, no fear, no mercy, no soul... now THAN you have a nightmare....

As for those nice sweet Anime depictions like in Chobits - there is no such thing in reality - and besides even if there where such a cute harmless, sexy android like "Chi" - than i would better remind myself that down below her cute pantsu, her fake skin and her immitated reproductional organs - she still looks like Arnie up there