Fanservice: To be or not to be?

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#16 Post by Ghost of Crux » Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:52 am

trooper6 wrote:Fan service just seems to be a nicer way to say "the sexual objectification of women." I can do without.
There are quite a number of fanservice that has men on the receiving side.

But while they're both fanservice, I'd say that the approach are different (sexual objectification in the form of submission vs power fantasy).

This post is just useless addition, sorry.
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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#17 Post by neowired » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:18 am

It's simple. If you think fanservice detracts from/clashes with the mood/atmosphere/story of your game, I would not include it,
if it doesn't detract, then go for it.

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#18 Post by Fuseblower » Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:36 am

IMO the worst offenders of "sexual objectification" and "power fantasies" were the slasher movies of the 80s. They were exploitation movies, riding the success of John Carpenter's "Halloween".

The famous movie critics Siskel and Ebert said interesting things about these movies.



I agree with most of their observations. These movies exploited the combination of sex and violence. The PoV was that of the bad guy. And, yes, we did cheer for the killer in the cinema even though, in the end, the killer would invariably fall at the hands of the "final girl", satisfying the need for justice being served.

I don't agree with their suggestion that there were political, anti-feminist or even misogynist motives involved. Many makers of these movies have made it clear the motives were financial rather than political :lol:

These movies were "guilty pleasures". Fantasies appealing to the dark side of people. Just like first person shooters satisfying our latent aggression that typically (hopefully) will never express itself in real life.

Now, the "fan service" which, I believe, the OP is refering to is nothing like the stuff from movies like the 80s slashers. It's a far more innocent case of "gratuitous nudity" and typically "defused" by playing it for comedy. But it still appeals to the same (sleazy) sensibilities those 80s slashers appealed to.

Primitive things like sex and violence might not sit well with more civilized things like morals and empathy. IMO gratuitous nudity is an instance of this. Surely our primitive part likes to see it but our more civilized part wants a justification for it to be there. In the case of gratuitous nudity, there is no valid reason. It's just there for the enjoyment of the audience.

Some people don't need a justification because it's just a fantasy. Other people find it offensive because it would be offensive in real life or just because it's unrealistical and destroys the "immersion" factor.

I guess it's just a case of "different strokes for different folks".

All I can say about it is what I said earlier : be upfront about such things as gratuitous nudity. It might attract the intended audience and keep away the ones who take offense.

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#19 Post by Hi.In.Ni » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:38 pm

As long as you don't use it as your main selling point and have a good product, fanservice might help you get noticed by people who might not check it if they just see "Drama/Comedy, Visual novel, Storybased".

I recommend you develop the game free of fanservice and then once you have a good base, all the base code ready and the story in mind, you look at it and decided if YOU want fanservice in it. If you have some spare time/budged, maybe you'll want to use it on expanding the story, or adding more detail to some characters' design. There's ALWAYS time to make small redrawns on the CG and add some panties here, maybe a size boob or shorter skirt.

But you can't depend on fanservive. Fanservice might sell, but it doesn't make a good product.

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#20 Post by Enigma » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:54 pm

Hi.In.Ni wrote:As long as you don't use it as your main selling point and have a good product, fanservice might help you get noticed by people who might not check it if they just see "Drama/Comedy, Visual novel, Storybased".

I recommend you develop the game free of fanservice and then once you have a good base, all the base code ready and the story in mind, you look at it and decided if YOU want fanservice in it. If you have some spare time/budged, maybe you'll want to use it on expanding the story, or adding more detail to some characters' design. There's ALWAYS time to make small redrawns on the CG and add some panties here, maybe a size boob or shorter skirt.

But you can't depend on fanservive. Fanservice might sell, but it doesn't make a good product.
I'd actually disagree with this. This is mainly cause I think adding it after the fact would be much worse than planning for it in the first place. It'd be more awkward and the story and characters need to be able to accomodate the fanservice. As for me, I actually don't mind fanservice at all, the worst a fanservice scene can do is break the pacing if it's put in at the wrong time. So as long as you can pace the fanservice right go for it! Don't put it in if you don't want it in for it's own sake though. Adding fanservice cause it'll sell well is like selling fries with ketchup already on them. Sure people love ketchup with their fries, but sometimes I just want salt and potato, and I can't stand ketchup being poured on the fries instead of dipping them in a pool of ketchup.

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#21 Post by Doodled » Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:04 pm

Enigma wrote: Adding fanservice cause it'll sell well is like selling fries with ketchup already on them. Sure people love ketchup with their fries, but sometimes I just want salt and potato, and I can't stand ketchup being poured on the fries instead of dipping them in a pool of ketchup.
Ketchup and fan-service... That is quite possibly one of the best comparisons I've ever heard.

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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#22 Post by Hi.In.Ni » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:19 am

Enigma wrote:I'd actually disagree with this. This is mainly cause I think adding it after the fact would be much worse than planning for it in the first place. It'd be more awkward and the story and characters need to be able to accomodate the fanservice.
Oh, I understand what you mean. Yes, I totally get why you'd say that. Let me try to rephrase myself. What I meant previously was about panty shots and shorter skirts, but definetly it wouldn't work for heavy or mood changing fanservice. I do agree you cannot have a safe story planned and then add a "Oh no found me naked in the shower" scene or a "Fell and grabbed my crouch" scene.
I really meant it for "subtle" details and what I said probably shouldn't be done if you are planning on something full of fanservice.
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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#23 Post by Nephalos » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:39 am

If your advertising includes scantily clad sprites (Or shirtless males posing, that could happen as well) then you've effectively shaped the expectations toward your game. Consistency is really the key here.
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Re: Fanservice: To be or not to be?

#24 Post by Seigetsu » Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:39 pm

I think you should just market it clearly. Fanservice or not, you are actually targeting two different audiences.

Maybe I just don't know too much, but I haven't seen a VN where the fanservice does not distract from the plot. In my opinion, you should just keep it separated. Either make a fanservicey game, or make a plot-based game. Don't try to juggle between the two.

As some other posters said above, if your game has scantily-clad characters, then the expectation is that it's a fanservice game. People who play it probably wouldn't have high expectations for a deep, meaningful plot. And well, people who want to play a plot-driven VN (like myself) wouldn't even touch the game after seeing the character art. If you try to cater to two different audiences at once, you may end up not satisfying either one.

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