Do you think visual novels are growing or slowly dying?

[infel]

I read something similar on a forum and it got me thinking a bit. Are visual novels growing or slowly dying? I personally think they are growing, but I wanted to know what other people thought. It's not just the market in the Uk and Staes, but also places in Asia like Japan.

[Spacefur]

I think they are evolving. I don't think they'll ever be quite as "mainstream" as other types of games, but I don't see the genre disappearing anytime soon.

But I think it'll probably change. I mean, there's more and more new creators, and more and more options to code your own game. So I imagine there'll be lots of experimental work and lots of technical improvements? The implementation of moving sprites is an example of that tendance I think.

TBH I'm really looking forward to it

[infel]

I think they are evolving. I don't think they'll ever be quite as "mainstream" as other types of games, but I don't see the genre disappearing anytime soon.

But I think it'll probably change. I mean, there's more and more new creators, and more and more options to code your own game. So I imagine there'll be lots of experimental work and lots of technical improvements? The implementation of moving sprites is an example of that tendance I think.

TBH I'm really looking forward to it

You make a very good point =D. I agree. True they may not be mainstream, but people still enjoy them. Like you, I hope and am excited to see them grow.

[SundownKid]

Growing, but it seems mostly in the direction of smut rather than serious games. People are starting to associate the Sakura series with the genre as a whole in the west. That's why I will probably stop calling my games visual novels altogether and call them adventure games instead, because it's impossible to escape the connotations that visual novels are either ecchi or a parodical dating sim.

[Graff]

Growing, but it seems mostly in the direction of smut rather than serious games. People are starting to associate the Sakura series with the genre as a whole in the west. That's why I will probably stop calling my games visual novels altogether and call them adventure games instead, because it's impossible to escape the connotations that visual novels are either ecchi or a parodical dating sim.

This. I would say the lewd stuff is what's predominant in the genre, which is why it may seem like the genre is diminishing, but it's only certain themes that get overlooked because the demand is usually ecchi.

[infel]

@SundownKid and Graff

I agree with what you guys say a actually. Never really thought about that till now...I admit there is more fan service games out there and due to it's popularity creators usually use that as a selling point. I don't hate fan service, but I prefer visual novels to have a good story and characters, rather then big boobs and what not. I really hope we see more games with good stories and that players will look at those as well...

[trooper6]

Certainly growing if you think about them a bit more broadly.

Cause Of Death (and the High School game by the same company) was a western episodic VN that had weekly new content for a couple of years. It was so successful that EA bought the company...and eventually cancelled both because EA works with much larger games in general. Anyway, both these games were popular, but I find that the people around here didn't know them...because they had no connection to JVNs and never really mentioned the phrase Visual Novel. But they were visual novels alright.

There are a number of companies that are making games that fit within this category--Choice of Games, two other companies...the one that developed the Inkle engine, and another one that is working with novelists--I can't recall their name right now. There are the twine games. There is a lot of stuff, even more now that people are playing on mobile phones and tablets. Some would even put the Telltale games into a visual novel subcategory.

But none of these things I'm thinking of use an anime aesthetic, aren't connected to the JVN tradition or JVN fan community, so they aren't as discussed in these parts.

But I think there is a strong and growing EVN market--though one that is not particularly overlapping with the EVN community here.

[Miss Skizzors]

Certainly growing if you think about them a bit more broadly.

Cause Of Death (and the High School game by the same company) was a western episodic VN that had weekly new content for a couple of years. It was so successful that EA bought the company...and eventually cancelled both because EA works with much larger games in general. Anyway, both these games were popular, but I find that the people around here didn't know them...because they had no connection to JVNs and never really mentioned the phrase Visual Novel. But they were visual novels alright.

I can attest to that. Surviving High School was a favorite of mine when I got my first smartphone. I wasn't familiar with visual novels at the time and it was never really marketed as one. I later tried out Cause of Death, and that was pretty awesome too actually. Hell, when you think about it, everything both games had could be recreated to run on the Ren'Py engine. In fact, it wouldn't be that hard to do so. That's pretty cool. I love how Ren'Py doesn't really cage anyone's creativity.

With little understanding of the engine, you can create a simplistic story-and-choice visual novel. With a little more understanding and applicable knowledge, you can create stories with variables that dictate the story's direction without the player's knowledge or at least without a specific singular choice dictating it instead. And when you master the programming language, you can create entire RPG battle systems and implement them into your visual novel, giving it much more "gameplay" to appeal to a larger crowd, perhaps. Or just fit better with a combat-based story. And that's fantastic! Even if you're not using it, having a wealth of options that vast is a great thing.

But getting back onto the original topic (and I apologize for straying there), I think the popularity of visual novels is making a steady growth. Gaming channels on YouTube run out of popular games to play, or at least ones suited to their channels for whatever reason, so they jump to less popular indie games and visual novels. Which gives us a bit more of an audience, and people who wouldn't have necessarily found out about this storytelling medium before are now getting into it. I could go into a lot of depth on the topic, but I won't claim that I know a lot more than anyone else here. However I can point out that while ecchi does turn some people away, it's probably less than you'd think. I can tell you that a lot of my close friends enjoy ecchi, and while that doesn't apply to everyone, it applies to plenty of people. Some just won't admit it because they think others will judge them and that's scary to them.

As for those who are genuinely put off by ecchi content, I think that most of them who know what a visual novel is could deduce that the medium isn't exclusively filled with ecchi, and there are plenty of great VN's with absolutely no content of that nature. In my case, I don't knock ecchi. I don't mind it myself and it can even add to a story when used as more than fanservice. But you don't need to add ecchi to make your visual novel more appealing. If people want ecchi content, they can just Google--... Wait, no. Not saying that outside of the adult section. But you get the point. People who create VN's can do as they please, but in the end, their story's popularity is unlikely to be too heavily dictated by ecchi if it's not taken to an extreme.

Wow, I said "ecchi" a lot in this post. Maybe I'm the one with the ecchi problem.

[hoihoisoi]

I'd think VNs are indeed growing. The exposure of VNs to the internet community as a whole is becoming more prevalent with more anime being made based on said VNs. (Type-Moon stuff especially) It's a starting ground I would think for potential fans of the anime to actually pick up the VN and try it for themselves granted not all of them will like it but I'm quite sure a few will emerge from the crowd to actually grow and like VNs.

Then you have some pretty good VN starters which borders the line between a game and a VN like the 'Ace Attorney Series' and 'Danganronpa Series' which kinda weens people on to more text heavy games with less game play in the mix in the long run. I actually jumped from Ace Attorney to Danganronpa to Kara no Shoujo and eventually started delving deeper into more romance based VNs although mystery remains one of my favorite genres.

So, personally, I'd say the VN market is still growing although I'd have to then say it'll probably still remain as a niche market. I don't really see it as a mass market product as of now unfortunately. But this is just my opinion on the matter anyways. X(

[Quelcezot]

Everything's slowly dying.

[trooper6]

So, personally, I'd say the VN market is still growing although I'd have to then say it'll probably still remain as a niche market. I don't really see it as a mass market product as of now unfortunately. But this is just my opinion on the matter anyways. X(

If we see th Telltale games as a form of VN (but one where voice-over replaces text), then there isn't much more mainstream than Game of the Year. If you see Phoenix Wright, or Zero Escape, or Danganronpa as a VN (because I don't think gameplay disqualifies something from gameplay status) those are all very popular. Christine Love's work is taught in university classes...that is certainly a level of recognition.

I think VNs thought of broadly are doing better and better.

[hoihoisoi]

So, personally, I'd say the VN market is still growing although I'd have to then say it'll probably still remain as a niche market. I don't really see it as a mass market product as of now unfortunately. But this is just my opinion on the matter anyways. X(

If we see th Telltale games as a form of VN (but one where voice-over replaces text), then there isn't much more mainstream than Game of the Year. If you see Phoenix Wright, or Zero Escape, or Danganronpa as a VN (because I don't think gameplay disqualifies something from gameplay status) those are all very popular. Christine Love's work is taught in university classes...that is certainly a level of recognition.

I think VNs thought of broadly are doing better and better.

True, Telltale games are considered to be VNs. If that's the case then I'd agree with your sentiment that VNs are doing better in the market these days and appeals to a rather large audience in fact.

I think when I was writing my response earlier, VNs in my head was more 'text' and 'picture' heavy without so much animation. In that sense, I was thinking of the more traditional view of VNs that being JVNs so in that regard I was wrong in saying that the market would be niche if we take into account the VNs from Telltale.

That being said, I'd still think that by traditional standards that being the JVN model, the market will still remain relatively niche for a long time coming. I personally don't think many Telltale players would after some time migrate to JVNs. It's kind of like 'Not all book readers enjoy VNs, similarly, not all Telltale players will enjoy JVNs', something of that sort. They are both very different kinds of animals although they come under the umbrella term of 'Visual Novels'.

So to wrap it up, I guess what I'm trying to say is roughly what you said at the end, that being 'VNs thought of broadly are doing better and better'. But when it comes to JVNs although the market is expanding slowly I still see it as a niche kind of product which will only ever appeal to it's group of consumers for a long time coming. Then again, as I've said, it's just a personal opinion of mine. Who knows, maybe JVNs will eventually outperform my expectations and become the next big thing for the masses of gamers out there. It's entirely possible.

Also, I apologize but I'm throwing around the term JVN very loosely here I think. D:

[LateWhiteRabbit]

Growing, but it seems mostly in the direction of smut rather than serious games. People are starting to associate the Sakura series with the genre as a whole in the west. That's why I will probably stop calling my games visual novels altogether and call them adventure games instead, because it's impossible to escape the connotations that visual novels are either ecchi or a parodical dating sim.

It is cyclical. I've been playing "Visual Novels", since before that was a term - since the late 90s. VNs or "Dating Sims" were very ecchi in the 90s. Heavily focused on hentai. You couldn't really find one in English that didn't have hentai in it. Heck, even Blue Lemma's little game that launched these forums let you pull down a girl's skirt to see her panties.

A few years ago, whether due to the influence of Steam or other factors, it was hard to find a VN that DID contain ecchi elements. Now the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction.

Even the amount of gameplay in a Visual Novel appears cyclical - again, it went from heavy game elements in the 90s to relatively few (or even none), and is swinging back into heavy gameplay territory again.

If we see th Telltale games as a form of VN (but one where voice-over replaces text), then there isn't much more mainstream than Game of the Year. If you see Phoenix Wright, or Zero Escape, or Danganronpa as a VN (because I don't think gameplay disqualifies something from gameplay status) those are all very popular. Christine Love's work is taught in university classes...that is certainly a level of recognition.

I think VNs thought of broadly are doing better and better.

I'd agree with this. Visual Novels or "story-telling games" are growing rapidly. Telltale's games are EXACTLY like Visual Novels - they just have animation and voice-overs. But in all cases, you are watching a story unfold and choosing to make decisions that alter the story.

There are so many high quality Visual Novels these days it is astounding - it's just that not all of them have the anime aesthetic we would normally associate with the genre.

[KnotUntied]

Growing in caliber, but stagnating in the market. At least, that's how I see it.

[truefaiterman]

I daresay VN's are more popular than ever. Nowadays they ARE a proper genre that keeps getting licensed and sold in both online stores and retail shops, we're actually getting them on our consoles, and we also have more developers from around the world than we've never seen.

The "worst" I can say about the current VN situation is that... well, yeah, the Nekoparas and Sakuras and such seem to be the big deal, but that's not anything special...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWEjvCRPrCo

Sex sells, and it's almost an easy way to get dem moneys (damn, even NINTENDO does this kind of stuff, even though most of it gets censored or never comes out in the west).