Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are around?

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aliciarune
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Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are around?

#1 Post by aliciarune » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:04 am

So I saw a thread on Winter Wolves about their BxB games Heir and Graces, and was a bit sad when I read how their game didn't sell well. It got me thinking a bit and I realized a lot of BxG and Otome games are out/coming out, but many GL and BL games are rare. I know these two romances have a small fan base compared to the other to, but it does feel like no one really want to make them and that players don't really like them. I am someone who wants to make Yuri/Yaoi games along with otome games, but honestly I think it may be a bad decision since people don't seem to really want any. I know this thinking may not be right, as I'm still kind of new to the vn scene, but from what I've seen it does seem that way.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#2 Post by Selidor » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:33 am

I enjoy otome, as well as the occasional BxG game if it's not too creepy or fetish-heavy, but I far prefer games with LGBT characters, being bisexual myself. Now I'm biased, but I think if you want to make yuri and yaoi games, you should go ahead and do it. There are certainly people willing to play them, but they may need more specialised marketing tactics because of the more niche audience.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#3 Post by SexBomb » Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:59 am

Being a bisexual guy, I don't feel much connection to otome games with a female protag seeking a straight male companion. I love BL games however, as I can connect with it on a much more intimate level. I've never played a strictly yuri game, but I'm definitely not against it... guess I just haven't found the right one.

That said, there are a huge amount of BLVNs that have done well (mostly in Japan). Nitro+CHiRAL and VividColour are famous for making ultra quality BLVNs, and many of them do have a large English fanbase. Yes, it is possible! I know I've seen a few on the forums here too, which have already surpassed their crowdfunding. Never say never!

I agree with Selidor. If you want to make it, you should. As long as the story and art are captivating, there will always be a niche for it, no matter how small.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#4 Post by MilanaWalters » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:15 am

i believe the problem of Heirs and Graces was the art style, not because it was yaoi. i thought the creator realised it. he just doesnt intend to make anymore strictly yaoi games, cause of his own preference,since hes straight guy and enjoys straight and lesbian romances more.But,thankfully,some of his games will still have BxB choices.I bought this game myself though because i like to help the english BL market and wasnt disappointed,Im glad i was able to put aside my dislike for the art and enjoy the story and characters.For the future i just wish for Winter Wolves games to have more CGs, they usually have one or two for each romance....

Speaking of the art style(thats not anime), ive recently bought the game "Solstice" and its freaking beautiful! add to that, it has a gay black protagonist and an asian female protagonist.

For my own preference, i always go for games with LGBT representation,but enjoy playing as a male more.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#5 Post by PyTom » Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:36 am

It seems like it's a bad idea to lump Yuri and Yaoi together, as they're different genres that attract different audiences. For example, there are a ton of Yuri games that have sold quite well. For example, most of the recent Sakura-series titles have been Yuri, and I think if you look at the games on steam, a reasonable number are Yuri to one extent or another.

It seems like a single Yuri game can appeal to a fairly large audience. Many appear to attempt to appeal approximately equally to lesbians and straight men, and it looks like it's fairly easy to make characters that can adequately appeal to both demographics. It's also pretty common to have a GxB game with at least one GxG route in it, and nobody seems to think that's a problem.

Yaoi seems to be in a much tighter spot. From what I understand, there are BxB games that appeal to straight women, and those that appeal to gay men, and those seem to have very different body types for the male characters to them. So you're splitting your audience in half right there. It's also a lot less acceptable to the target audience to have a BxB route in a BxG game, so you lose out that way as well.

At the same time - there weren't very many GxB games until people started making them and found and audience. What seems to always happen is a dedicated creator brings VNs to a new audience with a breakout hit game, and then the medium expands as people move to imitate the work that inspired them. (Oftentimes, the imitators can exceed the original.)
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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#6 Post by Caveat Lector » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:49 pm

OP, if you want to make a BxB/GxG game, go for it. Rest assured, there are many of us who would love to see more games like this, but our opinions tend to not be heard as loudly in certain circles. If you do decide to go for GxG, you could try using the Yuri Jam as a starting point (though it may be a bit late, but again, basic starting point if nothing else). I'd love to see more queer representation, and while I'm more than happy to contribute my part in it, I'd also love to see plenty of other devs jump in as well! :)
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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#7 Post by Shinoki » Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:22 pm

I'd think that the market for Yuri and Yaoi aren't too bad. Though the numbers are still smaller than those who like otome/galge, there's a lot of people who love their gays.

I personally am not for yaoi myself (cough, give me my cute girls), but... this isn't really researched based: BUT, I'm sure you know that a lot of visual novels--otome games, galge/bishoujo games--have spawned anime adaptations. You can find some pretty looking non-porn adaptations of yaoi visual novels as well (ex. Dramatical Murder, Togainu no Chi). And, well, usually I would think that things are adapted unless they're popular enough to sell.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#8 Post by Mythee » Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:20 pm

I think the most celebrated of games where you can pair up characters romantically are the ones where a variety of romantic orientations are available, meaning that rather than being a BL/GL/Heteroromantic game it's all of them together.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#9 Post by trooper6 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:25 am

I don't know if numbers are always the best indicator of markets when we are talking about such niche games in the first place.

I mean, you know who makes a huge amount of money? Fenoxo. Fenoxo makes games where you can choose your gender and then the rest of the game is lots of raping, lots of body transformations, and furries. And Fenoxo makes $25,000 a month in his Patreon. Does that mean the most popular EVN genre is body transformation furry raping games with minimal graphics? I don't really think so.

Just make the game you want to make and make it really well. You will find an audience if the quality is good.
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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#10 Post by Pomeranian » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:22 am

wrt yaoi being split into two categories, there have been some efforts to bridge the gap and attract a wider audience. Off the top of my head, Ore no Shita de Agake and No, Thank You!! come to mind due to the wide range of body types available, and in the latter, the ability to choose level of body hair in cgs and sprites, which attracted both gay men and straight women. No, Thank You!! was actually the first yaoi game by a company that primarily did BxG eroge, which already had that option for most of their games. What I think it comes down to is giving the players more choices so it appeals to that wider audience.

Going back to the topic at hand, my personal problem with Heir and Graces was the art style - the mixture of western and anime styles was really too jarring for me. I think it would have been more appealing if all the art looked like it did in the scheduler.

I'm gay so I much prefer yaoi or even games where I have the option of playing as a guy persuing other dudes, to otome + het romances.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#11 Post by rincewind » Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:01 pm

Well, I like yuri. And most of the Visual Novel that I play are yuri related. Not really a fan of yaoi, so I can't speak about that.

Usually I don't bother with otome games with a lone yuri route. I mean, I'm not paying to play a single route. No way. Probably otome gamers like a bit of yuri or something. But I prefer my yuri games 100% yuri if possible. So, having a straight option mixed into the yuri ones give me a bad vibe.

And finally, while not enormous, there's a small devoted fanbase for yuri. Or at least we talk a lot about it.
Sadly is not that big, otherwise we could have gotten a "A Little Lily Princess" fandisc, DLC or something.
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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#12 Post by KittyWills » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:02 pm

As a Gay(tm), I feel like I should be offended by this notion.... lol anywhooo. I couldn't find anything about Winter Wolves but I'm going to assume they make games featuring straight relationships. I mean obviously if you have a fanbase for a certain genre already and then throw out a game about something completely different you're not going to have the same sales numbers.

The LGBTA+ creative community is very active. You're just not going to see them bumping shoulders with many otome/otoge communities. Make the game you want; you'll find the community for it.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#13 Post by BáiYù » Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:52 pm

This thread is like talking about different types of apples. You got your Red Delicious (bishoujos) and Granny Smiths (otomes). That's two types of apples, surely that's enough to satisfy the world's need for apples right? No. Maybe people like Golden Delicious (yaoi) or Fuji (yuri). Why are you going to deny people their apples? Keep planting different types of apple trees for the people who like those varieties.

I'm not sure if that analogy makes any sense after looking at it now, but go eat your apples OP. If you like them, chances are there are other people who like them too.
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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#14 Post by rincewind » Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:46 am

KittyWills wrote:As a Gay(tm), I feel like I should be offended by this notion.... lol anywhooo. I couldn't find anything about Winter Wolves but I'm going to assume they make games featuring straight relationships. I mean obviously if you have a fanbase for a certain genre already and then throw out a game about something completely different you're not going to have the same sales numbers.

The LGBTA+ creative community is very active. You're just not going to see them bumping shoulders with many otome/otoge communities. Make the game you want; you'll find the community for it.
Well, WinterWolves games usually cover a wide margin of relationship types. Maybe too wide sometimes. Having B/B routes in their games isn't uncommon in their latest games. Like in Loren or the Planet Stronghold games.
But this is their first only B/B game I think.

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Re: Do people even like Yuri/Yaoi when Otome and BxG are aro

#15 Post by Green Glasses Girl » Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:04 pm

aliciarune wrote:I am someone who wants to make Yuri/Yaoi games along with otome games, but honestly I think it may be a bad decision since people don't seem to really want any.
Says who? Are we basing this on the selling results of a single game? While there are plenty of factors that can be thrown into the mix, one which has been echoed by a few on here is the fanbase that you've brought along from previous work. There is a good set of yaoi/yuri games that made out pretty well (no pun intended) because they had a loyal fanbase of yaoi and yuri fans beforehand (HamletMachine's Starfighter, Hanako Games, etc.) If you've built a fanbase of primarily GxB/BxG games, that's what your fanbase will expect. If you're trying to dip into a different demographic, some research is in order. Where are the places to advertise your game that branches into this other genre? What are the other titles your intended demographic enjoys and what can you learn from those games? Lastly, what kind of fans do you hope to bring into your work or what fans will you be alienated from doing so?

At the end of the day, make a game because it's something you want and what story you want to share. Show progress. Do something. Don't let the fear of "no one is going to want to play it" hold you back. :D
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