"I would totally play your game if I had the time and money"

[Taleweaver]

Yeah, well. The thread title is one of my pet peeves - so strong a peeve, in fact, that it made me forget my good manners recently and publicy comment on it in another thread. I shouldn't have done that. This is why I'm opening this thread here.

I understand people who play VNs are often still in school, or in college. I understand that in these situations, money is often an issue. I understand that it may be difficult to spend 60+ dollars and at least 20 hours on a game if you need to pay the rent, buy food, maintain a crappy car and pay for your books, mobile flatrate and other everyday expenses. And yeah, even 20 dollars and 10 hours of playtime may be too much for you, depending on your situation.

But if you use above line on a game that's literally the price of a cup of coffee and the length of an average lunch break, you're not being sincere. You're not honestly saying that money and time are an issue. You're saying that the game looks moderately interesting, but not interesting enough for you to buy it. And you're saying it in a way that sounds like you expect the game's makers to be thankful about you even commenting since you think the game is so good that you would even consider buying it if you just had the damn money!

I've read comments like this before, and each and every time, it really ticks me off. Why can't people just be honest? Why make insincere excuses like that in the first place? It boggles my mind!

What are your opinions?

[Kuiper]

I understand that it may be difficult to spend 60+ dollars and at least 20 hours on a game if you need to pay the rent, buy food, maintain a crappy car and pay for your books, mobile flatrate and other everyday expenses. And yeah, even 20 dollars and 10 hours of playtime may be too much for you, depending on your situation.

But if you use above line on a game that's literally the price of a cup of coffee and the length of an average lunch break, you're not being sincere.

Just wanted to drop a reminder that LSF is an international community, and a price that might seem low or otherwise reasonable to people living in a more affluent nation could much pricier from the perspective of people with more limited means. For a graphic that provides a bit of context/perspective, here's a map showing average wages across Europe. What's "just a cup of coffee" to you could be a huge chunk of discretionary income to someone living in eastern Europe or southeast Asia. And I don't think that these are "hypothetical" people that we're talking about; at the very least, I know that Russia has an active visual novel scene, and based on the number of people on LSF who speak English as a second language, I assume that not all of us are Americans and western Europeans.

Additionally, currency's relative value isn't always stable. For example, the exchange rate of the Russian ruble has tanked in the past several years, at the moment the exchange rate is 0.016 when it was more like 0.032 in 2012. The upshot of this is that if you're a Russian buying games at American prices, the cost of games has effectively doubled in the past four years.

[timepatches]

In addition to Kuiper's point, I personally spent a lot of my online life until fairly recently not being able to pay for anything, since I had no income of my own (and in any case, no cards I could use to spend that money online). There were a lot of things I desperately wanted but couldn't have, and a lot of creators I wanted to fund but didn't have any means to. I didn't post this line a lot, but I certainly thought it, and still do, so I can understand where they're coming from in some cases.
Not that this line doesn't annoy me though - especially as a throwaway commenr as you described (and not somebody genuinely describing what they like about your game and what makes them want to play even though they're unable; that's good feedback).

[Taleweaver]

@Kuiper: Your point is basically that there are people who actually cannot even afford buying games that are cheap by western standards. Point taken.

Do you honestly believe that what I described above is caused by that?

[TheJerminator15]

To add onto this, even in Western Europe there are people who struggle. I live there myself but due to being a student and in a relatively not well off family all my money goes to costs for college. it typically takes me a few weeks to save enough to even consider buying a second hand game, whilst a cup of coffee doesn't seem like much that same money is typically two or three days worth of college costs for me.

I never posted this line frequently, but I definitely thought of it many times. Whether it be an indie game or kickstarter I desperately wanted to fund but couldn't.

I do definitely understand where you come from when being peeved by this line being used. But for many it isn't just an excuse, they are genuinely interested but cannot afford it.

On the upside, I'm great at budgeting things to last as long as possible lol.

[Taleweaver]

A little perspective from my side:

Where I come from, three dollars will buy you a one-way tram ride from one side of town to the other. It will buy you a Big Mac, no sides, no drinks. It'll buy you two medium-sized bags of potato chips or one large bag of chocolate bars, or all the ingredients for a decent meatless dinner for two. If you cannot afford to spend that amount of money on something just for fun, you are not making excuses when you say you do not have the money.

In my opinion, everybody else is.

[Fuseblower]

Yeah, I think that "If I had the time and money then..." is the less embarrassing way of saying "Oh God! I thought it was free! In that case, never mind."

The sales stats thread shows that the demographic of VN fans is either poor or only wants free stuff (or both) and the creators would have been better off by taking a job as a burger flipper or paper boy. I think the VN scene is financially uninteresting unless you live in Japan or the VN appeals to the much more loyal audience of connoisseurs that is willing to pay for certain niche products (hentai stuff).

[firecat]

when people ask me why my games are free its because i know how the economy is hurting people. the place i live barely has anyone on the internet, in fact having internet in my country is considered to be a rich person. owning a samsung phone is also consider a rich person, you cant buy that from everyday stores because they only sell at citys.

however no matter how much people think i am, i feel guilt for not helping everyone else. a youtuber i know is struggling and while i do have money to help him, i just can't for other reasons. that goes with many other kickstarts, i want to help developers who use kickstarter correctly but in no way is it possible for me to do it.

[indoneko]

@firecat : sorry for OOT, but which city/country do you live, actually?

I've read comments like this before, and each and every time, it really ticks me off. Why can't people just be honest? Why make insincere excuses like that in the first place? It boggles my mind!

While "lip service" might be bad in a way, I think people who shows interest on a completed game threads are actually still nicer than the rest of forum members who just ignore those threads altogether. So, let's not chase them away or punish them for not actually financially supporting the developer.

[Taleweaver]

An idea:

If you want something that would usually come cheap, and you really cannot afford to buy it, but you do have a little time, why not ask the creator whether they are willing to give you free access in exchange for, say, a 200-words-per-dollar-review on any of the sites where they are active? Or where they are selling it, in the case of Steam? In that case, you'd be essentially "working your debts" off, could play the game you so desperately want to play and help the creator at the same time.

TheJerminator15, firecat and everybody else currrently in the proverbial dire straits: Is that something you would consider?

While "lip service" might be bad in a way, I think people who shows interest on a completed game threads are actually still nicer than the rest of forum members who just ignore those threads altogether. So, let's not chase them away or punish them for not actually financially supporting the developer.

You can express interest in a completed game in a lot of ways. If you're not planning to play the game but still want to comment, you can also tell the creators honestly why you are not going to buy the game - the theme's interesting but a little generic and overdone in your opinion, you prefer titles with more individual endings, you think it could be a nice story but only play games where you can choose the gender of the protagonist. Each and every one of these comments will help a creator more than "I would so play this if I had the money". We all want constructive criticism, don't we?

[dorne]

You're not honestly saying that money and time are an issue. You're saying that the game looks moderately interesting, but not interesting enough for you to buy it. And you're saying it in a way that sounds like you expect the game's makers to be thankful about you even commenting since you think the game is so good that you would even consider buying it if you just had the damn money!

I've read comments like this before, and each and every time, it really ticks me off. Why can't people just be honest? Why make insincere excuses like that in the first place? It boggles my mind!

What are your opinions?

It's a sales relationship. When the person/customer thinks it's not worth it to buy, they won't buy, and will give a response that is open to interpretation. It's up to the creator (salesmen) to find out the cause of sales resistance. And we're all salesmen =).

An idea:

If you want something that would usually come cheap, and you really cannot afford to buy it, but you do have a little time, why not ask the creator whether they are willing to give you free access in exchange for, say, a 200-words-per-dollar-review on any of the sites where they are active? Or where they are selling it, in the case of Steam? In that case, you'd be essentially "working your debts" off, could play the game you so desperately want to play and help the creator at the same time.

This is a neat idea. If both the creator and customer can agree upon a barter, then it works out without exchange of goods, but services (and time) on the customer side.

You can express interest in a completed game in a lot of ways. If you're not planning to play the game but still want to comment, you can also tell the creators honestly why you are not going to buy the game - the theme's interesting but a little generic and overdone in your opinion, you prefer titles with more individual endings, you think it could be a nice story but only play games where you can choose the gender of the protagonist. Each and every one of these comments will help a creator more than "I would so play this if I had the money". We all want constructive criticism, don't we?

That helps with finding out why you personally aren't buying the game. It would be good feedback, but would that be appropriate in a forum post? This feels like something that should be pm'ed to the creator. I feel like criticism of the game should be done once a person has actually bought/played the game and critiqued it whole or in part.

[Rinima]

Honestly, this entire post comes off as very judgmental.

Not everyone has the spare cash for a cup of coffee.
Not everyone has the spare cash for a game.

Not everyone has a stable income and the exposable income to spend. Not everyone is "middle class and makes a decent wage". Some people however, want to put in a good word, to let developers that they've done a good jobs.

Shame on you for promoting this bs.

[trooper6]

You can express interest in a completed game in a lot of ways. If you're not planning to play the game but still want to comment, you can also tell the creators honestly why you are not going to buy the game - the theme's interesting but a little generic and overdone in your opinion, you prefer titles with more individual endings, you think it could be a nice story but only play games where you can choose the gender of the protagonist. Each and every one of these comments will help a creator more than "I would so play this if I had the money". We all want constructive criticism, don't we?

There is a reason why the Honest Critique button exists...it is because by and large people on this forum are loathe to give honest feedback. "I would totally play your game it..." may be just another manifestation of LSF people being reluctant to give actual critique.

[Taleweaver]

There is a reason why the Honest Critique button exists...it is because by and large people on this forum are loathe to give honest feedback. "I would totally play your game it..." may be just another manifestation of LSF people being reluctant to give actual critique.

Yeah, that could definitely be an explanation. A sad one, though, since it means nothing has changed within the last three years or so.

I really wish people were a little more open with stating their opinions. Maybe that's the real reason I made this thread.

[TheJerminator15]

In regards to your review idea, it's an interesting idea to be perfectly honest for those struggling a lot to buy such games.