The Mythos of LemmaSoft

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BáiYù
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The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#1 Post by BáiYù » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:58 pm

AKA, Who are Eileen, Lucy, & Co. and What's Their Deal?

I was browsing the Artist Boards and came across Mellanthe's art thread, where she drew the Ren'Py mascot, Eileen. From there:
PyTom wrote:
indoneko wrote:Btw, while we're at it... do you by any chance have a character profile or background story for Eileen? (either the original version or anything that you plan for future version of her). I've been looking around, but couldn't find enough reference of her...
I have a background story, and here's the original character sprite: https://github.com/renpy/renpy/blob/his ... _happy.png

If you really want to know, you can ask it in it's own thread, and I'll probably answer - I don't want to thread-hijack more than I already have.
Here is that thread. For those curious, Lucy was created to demonstrate Ren'Py Imagemaps, according to mugenjohncel.

Eileen and Lucy are under an MIT license but if anyone (myself included) wants to make a VN using them, how should we portray them?
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#2 Post by indoneko » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:17 pm

Whoa... I was just about going to make a thread in Q&A about Eileen (as Pytom suggested), but now that you've made a thread here, I'm not sure if I should make another one there... :D
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#3 Post by BáiYù » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:26 pm

indoneko wrote:Whoa... I was just about going to make a thread in Q&A about Eileen (as Pytom suggested), but now that you've made a thread here, I'm not sure if I should make another one there... :D
Ah, sorry about that! I waited a couple days but I didn't see you post a new thread, so I went ahead and did so. If you meant to post it in the Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine section, I think it would have been moved here anyhow.
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#4 Post by indoneko » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:00 pm

BáiYù wrote:
indoneko wrote:Ah, sorry about that! I waited a couple days but I didn't see you post a new thread, so I went ahead and did so. If you meant to post it in the Ren'Py Visual Novel Engine section, I think it would have been moved here anyhow.
It's okay... it doesn't really matter who should make the thread. I actually planned to do it yersterday, but I was having problem with my internet connection. And when I PM'd Pytom earlier, he suggested me the Renpy Q&A section.. so, yeah... :lol:

Anyhow... now that we already have a thread here, should we start compiling a question list about Eileen & Lucy? (hopefully it will help Pytom in describing the characters)
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#5 Post by PyTom » Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:14 am

This has been sitting in my inbox as a reminder since November. I wanted to get 6.99.12 out before I replied - and then 6.99.12 took way longer than I thought it would. But now that it's out, I can spend some time to answer. Note that this isn't the mythos of LemmaSoft - which is based on the Tales of Lemma games. But it's the story of the characters that inspired Ren'Py.

Eileen and Lucy were meant to be characters in a visual novel I was planning on making. (I never did.) Eileen is the result of a series of "drawings" (I think most were SVG vectors) I did, back when I tried to learn to create art. The programmer art version you can see (for example, at http://bishoujo.us/) is the ninth version I did. At least one older version of Eileen exists here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200910161717 ... 6022.shtml

I forget the title of the game - or even if I had one - but I do remember the plot, at least somewhat. I remember that I was going with a quasi-religious supernatural thing. The personalities of the girls are pretty much the opposite of the ones Mugenjohncel eventually gave them in his works (which are kind of the canonical forms that everyone knows today.) Eileen was meant to be a sort of wild girl that got into a lot of trouble, and Lucy was meant to be straightlaced, the class president type. Both went against their supernatural stereotypes - Eileen was meant to be an angel, and Lucy a devil.

(The gold hairband Eileen wears - that's meant to invoke a halo.)

I don't recall much about the plot of the game. I do remember the ending - both girls would be recalled to their respective realms, but wouldn't want to go. (There was an element of Good Omens there - both Aziraphale and Crowley are more comfortable on earth than heaven/hell, respectively.) I recall quite explicitly the good ending would be reached by the POV character jumping in with the disappearing heroine, doing something in the supernatural realm, and bringing her back to earth.

Moonlight Walks Spoiler:
Ending 4 of Moonlight Walks - which is the ending that inspired the work - has the same sort of attitude to it - the idea that a bold (dumb?) romantic gesture will get rewarded.
This was kind of my response to Japanese works from the early 2000s or so - there tended to be a lot of anime and games that had sad endings in which the protagonist has to accept fate. And I wanted this to be about a protagonist who rejects fate, which is an attitude I love.

In general, I remember the original idea for the game - and my circle, American Bishoujo - was the idea of taking visual novel (and explicitly, Bishoujo games), and applying American attitudes and situations for them. So instead of the shrine festival, there would be a fireman's fair. There would probably have been a visit to a shooting range, at some point. And so on.

The game never happened, and I kind of doubt I'll ever get time to make it - even if I had the time, I have at least two better ideas in me. So the characters kind of belong to Ren'Py - and the community - now, which is why I'm thrilled when people give Eileen and Lucy cameos in their own games.
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#6 Post by Yomuchan » Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:15 am

Man, this brings me way back. I didn't understand proper code input and all I could do on the renpy engine back then was replace the sounds and dialog.

That was in 2004~2005, though.

She's all grown up now. *sniff*

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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#7 Post by indoneko » Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:20 pm

@PyTom : First of all, congratulation for the latest release of Renpy, and thank you for keeping up the good work in supporting the (oel)VN community all these years.
PyTom wrote:The personalities of the girls are pretty much the opposite of the ones Mugenjohncel eventually gave them in his works (which are kind of the canonical forms that everyone knows today.) Eileen was meant to be a sort of wild girl that got into a lot of trouble, and Lucy was meant to be straightlaced, the class president type. Both went against their supernatural stereotypes - Eileen was meant to be an angel, and Lucy a devil.

(The gold hairband Eileen wears - that's meant to invoke a halo.)

I don't recall much about the plot of the game. I do remember the ending - both girls would be recalled to their respective realms, but wouldn't want to go. (There was an element of Good Omens there - both Aziraphale and Crowley are more comfortable on earth than heaven/hell, respectively.) I recall quite explicitly the good ending would be reached by the POV character jumping in with the disappearing heroine, doing something in the supernatural realm, and bringing her back to earth.
Romance with supernatural touch... oh man... I wish you've made it into a game since I realy like this kind of story. I'm still wondering about why Eileen and Lucy were sent to earth in the first place, or does Eileen's hairband actually hold any kind of power. :roll:

In your original version, do you know any anime/game characters that (personality-wise) similar to Eileen & Lucy? I was thinking that original Eileen was somehow similar to Yandere-ish Dokuro-chan in "Bludgeoning Angel Dokuro-chan" (though not necessarily as violent as her). :lol:

If you can choose, would you like us to use your original version as the canon, or do you prefer us to follow Uncle Mugen's version instead (though I don't know his backstory yet - especially about the "reborn/reincarnation" version of Lucy).
The game never happened, and I kind of doubt I'll ever get time to make it - even if I had the time, I have at least two better ideas in me. So the characters kind of belong to Ren'Py - and the community - now, which is why I'm thrilled when people give Eileen and Lucy cameos in their own games.
How about making it as a (not necessarily massive) community project? It's kinda sad knowing that despite being Renpy's mascot, Eileen still doesn't have any "proper" game of her own...


And talking about cameos... does anyone here have a complete list of all the games that have Eileen and/or Lucy in it?
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Re: The Mythos of Ren'Py

#8 Post by PyTom » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:01 am

Hm... I have to think that the characters Eileen and Lucy were probably most inspired by are Miina and Karen from Onegai Twins, respectively. That's insofar as they were inspired by the same sorts of anime stereotypes. (Part of the idea was to contrast the more fatalistic anime characters with the American one. Onegai Twins - which is based on the premise that it's unthinkably bad for unrelated teenagers to live together - seems like it would be a nothingburger here.)

I'm fine with people making a game with my characters, but not a community game. Community games don't work, and usually wind up with screaming and crying. If someone wants to lead a project, based on these ideas, I'm happy with that. If you want to run the ideas past me, that's fine - but I'd rather someone take charge and make creative decisions, something I'm fairly bad at. I'd prefer my canon, but if the people doing the work think Mugen's is more interesting, I'm fine with that, too.
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#9 Post by indoneko » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:51 am

...
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Re: The Mythos of LemmaSoft

#10 Post by Fuseblower » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:18 pm

PyTom wrote:So the characters kind of belong to Ren'Py - and the community - now, which is why I'm thrilled when people give Eileen and Lucy cameos in their own games.
That can be arranged.

...

You're cool with tentacles? :lol:

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