Adult Content Line

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磯七ラスミ
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Adult Content Line

#1 Post by 磯七ラスミ » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:52 am

I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?

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Re: Adult Content Line

#2 Post by indoneko » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:17 am

Another thread is currently discussing about the similar topic. You might want to visit there :
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41396
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Re: Adult Content Line

#3 Post by SundownKid » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:39 am

磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?
I think in general adult content = something that could be defined as "hardcore pornography". Which in turn usually means it involves showing people's "lower half" or doing something involving it. There's usually not much of a reason for it besides pure titillation.

Swear words don't cross the line into adult content in the majority of cases. Topless women also do not, there have been many games with M rating that also had topless nudity.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#4 Post by 磯七ラスミ » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:49 am

indoneko wrote:Another thread is currently discussing about the similar topic. You might want to visit there :
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41396
After reading it I can say... is still dubious for me.

You can have some linear age measurement rule when you are into that. But for me is like for a deaf person to detect noisy zones. You could guess for the number of people that are there, or you may recognize "noisy objects", but you can't be sure if they actually are making a sound. Is arbitrarily restrictive.

While other people tell me it's obvious what is and what isn't, I think my seclution is against common sense (I do like my seclution though).

Would be much to ask for a personal free pass to use every censorable thing as I wish. Maybe just some advice.

For example, some people say visual stuff is worse than text stuff.
I heard too you could encrypt your erotic material so only adult can understand it and that's good and acceptable.

Sorry if I'm repeating topic. I'm new to this.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#5 Post by 磯七ラスミ » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:59 am

SundownKid wrote:
磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?
I think in general adult content = something that could be defined as "hardcore pornography". Which in turn usually means it involves showing people's "lower half" or doing something involving it. There's usually not much of a reason for it besides pure titillation.

Swear words don't cross the line into adult content in the majority of cases. Topless women also do not, there have been many games with M rating that also had topless nudity.
I'm not into sexual content, just maybe nudity. But not always, just as another costume for characters (they can wear or not some clothes). I'm not very sure why a naked body is equals to Mature, but is better than Adults only. :roll:

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Re: Adult Content Line

#6 Post by firecat » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:30 am

磯七ラスミ wrote:
SundownKid wrote:
磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?
I think in general adult content = something that could be defined as "hardcore pornography". Which in turn usually means it involves showing people's "lower half" or doing something involving it. There's usually not much of a reason for it besides pure titillation.

Swear words don't cross the line into adult content in the majority of cases. Topless women also do not, there have been many games with M rating that also had topless nudity.
I'm not into sexual content, just maybe nudity. But not always, just as another costume for characters (they can wear or not some clothes). I'm not very sure why a naked body is equals to Mature, but is better than Adults only. :roll:
nudity is a no in american standard, while in other places its ok. its always better to just accept censorship because that way you can sell more to people.
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Re: Adult Content Line

#7 Post by Parataxis » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:45 am

So the issue here is that you need to be specific I think. A lot of the rules fall into two categories: weirdly legally defined and culturally defined and it's easier to tell by a case by case basis than actually fully define the latter.

For my understanding, the general costuming line legally seems to be "don't show a woman's nipples" and "don't show a guy's dick or anything within 2 inches of anyone's pubic hair". Everything other than that can be racey but not actually a censor able offense. There's actually quite a bit of room if its explicitly non sexual nudity especially from the back.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#8 Post by gekiganwing » Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:53 pm

磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity... I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood.
One thing which I learned (embarrassingly late in life) is that every story has the potential to offend everyone. It doesn't matter if it's a tale about puppies frolicking on clouds. All art will seem horrifying or shocking to someone.

Because of this, I think you will benefit by challenging your audience. Use your story and art to ask people to reconsider their assumptions. Compel people who read your story to ask questions. There's a personal and off-topic reason why I say this...
My background. For about four years, I grew up among evangelicals who had a ghetto of Christian fiction, art, music, and so on. I tried and enjoyed some of it. At the same time, I had access to public libraries. There, I found many books which challenged my sensibilities and assumptions. These included non-fiction, alternative comics, and art compilations. All things said, I'm glad that I discovered creative works which helped me question my world view.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#9 Post by Fuseblower » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:40 am

磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?
Well, in some cultures merely showing the hair of a woman is considered erotic. Do you want to appeal to that level of modesty too? Actually, in some cultures the mere depiction of humans is a "no go". You might end up with a purely abstract game if you try to avoid offending any single person on this planet.

As Gekinganwing wrote : there will always be people who find something offensive.

There's only one audience that should be on your mind when making a work of art and that audience is you. If the end product appeals to you then chances are that it will appeal to a lot of other people as well. Leave the censoring to others.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#10 Post by fmjaye » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:39 pm

I also find this a really difficult thing to wrap my head around... orz;
Anything short of drawing people actually having graphic sex seems like, it might not count? Like, if you were to have a sex scene without showing any nudity, would that count? And thing like that... If it's just nudity, I feel like it should depend on the "camera"; whether it's trying to show this person in a sexual light. But that's subjective, and images of people with like, all their junk covered can be more sexual than images of people completely naked.
It's a hard question! orz;

From my own experience playing visual novels, I can put up with a lot of sexual content I don't like if the story is good.
And with independent games, there's no rating system. "NSFW" can be used to cover a pretty broad range.
So I think it's best not to worry about it. Just tell the story you want to tell, be upfront with the content, check with friends and beta testers once it's done to get a feel for where people draw the line.

(I can't really speak to whether nudity alone seems like adult content... I go to art school and I've done a lot of life drawing classes so it seems really weird to me that nudity could be seen as inherently sexual.)
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Re: Adult Content Line

#11 Post by SundownKid » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:34 pm

fmjaye wrote:I also find this a really difficult thing to wrap my head around... orz;
Anything short of drawing people actually having graphic sex seems like, it might not count? Like, if you were to have a sex scene without showing any nudity, would that count? And thing like that... If it's just nudity, I feel like it should depend on the "camera"; whether it's trying to show this person in a sexual light. But that's subjective, and images of people with like, all their junk covered can be more sexual than images of people completely naked.
It's a hard question! orz;
Topless women doesn't seem to cross the line where a game would be rated adults only. There are tons of games with topless pinups etc, like the Mafia series, that are rated M, and they are shown in an inherently sexual connotation.

So ultimately if the sex scene or topless nudity is shown in a "tasteful/cinematic" way, then it can still be rated M - think Mass Effect series. If it goes into full frontal nudity and graphic sex then it goes into adults only territory.

The ratings themselves are ridiculously hopeful for this day and age though. Like 17 year old Lil Timmy hasn't seen all that "adults only" stuff already elsewhere on the internet?

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Re: Adult Content Line

#12 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:51 pm

SundownKid wrote: The ratings themselves are ridiculously hopeful for this day and age though. Like 17 year old Lil Timmy hasn't seen all that "adults only" stuff already elsewhere on the internet?
My 10-year-old peers in the 1980s and I all had copious access to adults only material through smuggled magazines. I'm like you, expecting teenagers to be innocent of exposure to such material in the age of the internet is ludicrously hopeful indeed. But that's a digression ....

As everyone has stated, the line is almost impossible to exactly define. Even the LAW (at least in the U.S.) has not been able to pin down where such a line between erotic and pornographic exists. It is literally "I'll know pornography when I see it." And that's about as accurate as you can be. The same scene can take on radically different connotations depending on intent and the way it is presented.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#13 Post by Zelan » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:08 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
SundownKid wrote: The ratings themselves are ridiculously hopeful for this day and age though. Like 17 year old Lil Timmy hasn't seen all that "adults only" stuff already elsewhere on the internet?
My 10-year-old peers in the 1980s and I all had copious access to adults only material through smuggled magazines. I'm like you, expecting teenagers to be innocent of exposure to such material in the age of the internet is ludicrously hopeful indeed.
I mean, I managed to hold on to my innocence until I was... thirteen? Fourteen? Do I get an award for that?

To the original point, there isn't much that I can say that hasn't already been posted here, but I would follow people's advice when they say make it clear what people are getting. That seems to be the most important thing that you should do.

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Re: Adult Content Line

#14 Post by zaergax » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:57 am

磯七ラスミ wrote:I'm making some Visual Novels that may be considered erotic just because nudity. The line isn't clear for me and I struggle trying to figure out how people modesty works.

I could just censor my character designs or the swear words but I feel dumb absurdly cutting content just because I could be misunderstood. I become very paranoid easily (what clouds my art potencial). :?
nah go with what your heart wants dude your art will be better for it, people will be into the honesty of your work

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Re: Adult Content Line

#15 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:03 pm

Zelan wrote:
LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
SundownKid wrote: The ratings themselves are ridiculously hopeful for this day and age though. Like 17 year old Lil Timmy hasn't seen all that "adults only" stuff already elsewhere on the internet?
My 10-year-old peers in the 1980s and I all had copious access to adults only material through smuggled magazines. I'm like you, expecting teenagers to be innocent of exposure to such material in the age of the internet is ludicrously hopeful indeed.
I mean, I managed to hold on to my innocence until I was... thirteen? Fourteen? Do I get an award for that?

To the original point, there isn't much that I can say that hasn't already been posted here, but I would follow people's advice when they say make it clear what people are getting. That seems to be the most important thing that you should do.
Making it clear what your audience can expect is probably the best advice. No one likes surprises.

And yes, Zelan, you get an award for maintaining innocence that long. I assume your circle of friends maintained innocence for the same length of time - that's usually how it goes. One kid pulls back the curtain on the adult material, and then every kid gets a look.

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