The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

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The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#1 Post by Mammon » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:44 am

Hi, I posted this in the NaNoRenO FAQ a few days ago but the thread's views have barely gone up since then and no replies appeared. Not sure why that was, until I realised that most people probably don't use the 'View active topics' option to keep up with all the new posts. While people will see my question eventually, this will be around the time Nanoreno is already around the corner and I'd like to resolve this issue way before then. Copied from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25451

So, I know that the rules of NaNoRenO are pretty clear in that we're not supposed to begin with the components of a project that will actually be part of the game before March 1st, but I was wondering whether the following would be okay: All the way back in Juli I came up with this idea for a story named 'Stalker&Yandere' and started to write out the summary for it. I ended up writing the entire script by the next day, and reading through it I thought that it would make a good Nanoreno project due to it's small size, manageable art quantities and programming requirements. So I used that second day to rewrite the story and add as much script-code as I could, and then closed it. I haven't opened the file since. I wrote the story in two days and not a minute more. Considering that, would it be okay for it to be a NaNoRenO17 project if the project would start on the 3th of March rather than the 1st?

I'm asking because while I'm seeing plenty of hints that the deadline isn't too strict and that many rules have loosened since 2006, the start date rule seems to be a pretty strict one. I swear hand on my heart that I did not open the file since I wrote it, but it's still a loophole at best and a breach of the rules at worse. But I was hoping for the former considering the very purpose of NaNoRenO is to help starting developers getting their feet wet and I'll be aiming to recruit fellow rookies who haven't gotten much experience under their belt, or haven't been able to work with a group that finished a project before scrapping it. And I think there'll be plenty of hesitant beginners who'd benefit from a project where they don't have to wait for the writer, don't get more tasks added to the story halfway the project, and can determine whether they can handle the workload before even applying to join the project. (I'll open the file around Januari 20th to count all the sprites and CG etc. and add those quantities to the recruitment thread OP, so they'll know exactly what they'll have to do that month.)

So, 'NaNoRenO2017 Stalker&Yandere'; Yay or nay?
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Re: A loophole in the strict rules of Nanoreno, hopefully?

#2 Post by mugenjohncel » Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:28 am

I'm going out of my normal way and drop on this thread to say...

If you worry too much about NaNoRenO rules then you're probably doing it wrong... :)

You can treat NaNoRenO's rules a a sort of a Guideline which on paper, everybody agrees but not too many people practice faithfully. Some people join NaNoRenO to challange themselves, other use it as an excuse to release their unfinished games, patched and rushed and declares it as a finished project while using NaNoRenO's time restricted framework as an excuse for the shoddy quality. Others join to exhibit new or unique gameplay mechanics to an otherwise glorified powerpoint presentation but one thing is certain... no matter what the purpose is... to some degree, everybody is doing it for fun... the rules as far as I am concerned, NaNoRenO and it's rules are simply an excuse to organize a Game Jam of some sorts and motivate and kick procrastination in the rear with the end goal of having produced Visual Novels at the end of the month for everyone to enjoy...

It's actually up to you if you wanted to start creating a NaNoRenO entry this early in January. As long as you don't tell anyone, nobody will know anyway :wink: ... just make sure you have fun doing it. Creating NaNoRenO entry under pressure, any pressure is not only not fun, it pretty much betrays the purpose of NaNoRenO which is have fun making Visual Novel and savor on the bragging rights that you did it in a month... :wink:

OK, I go now :)

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Re: A loophole in the strict rules of Nanoreno, hopefully?

#3 Post by Rinima » Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:50 pm

I don't see why not. I mean, it's not like anyone is going to be like "NU. YOU CAN NOT DO THAT, PREPARE TO DIE" and then track you down and kill you :lol: (and if they do, they need to get a life).
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Re: A loophole in the strict rules of Nanoreno, hopefully?

#4 Post by Yunou » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:44 pm

Rinima wrote:and then track you down and kill you :lol: (and if they do, they need to get a life).
Looks like they are getting a life. By taking one.

Also, OP, I've never participated in Nanoreno because of the time commitment being incompatible with my schedule the past few times it's come around, but I wouldn't worry about it. If it gets your game out then do it.

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Re: A loophole in the loose rules of NaNoRenO, hopefully?

#5 Post by Mammon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:34 am

Thanks for the replies, everyone!
mugenjohncel wrote:I'm going out of my normal way and drop on this thread to say...
If you worry too much about NaNoRenO rules then you're probably doing it wrong... :)
Replied to by the legendary Uncle Mugen himself, the honor. :D
mugenjohncel wrote:You can treat NaNoRenO's rules a a sort of a Guideline which on paper, everybody agrees but not too many people practice faithfully. Some people join NaNoRenO to challange themselves, other use it as an excuse to release their unfinished games, patched and rushed and declares it as a finished project while using NaNoRenO's time restricted framework as an excuse for the shoddy quality. Others join to exhibit new or unique gameplay mechanics to an otherwise glorified powerpoint presentation but one thing is certain... no matter what the purpose is... to some degree, everybody is doing it for fun... the rules as far as I am concerned, NaNoRenO and it's rules are simply an excuse to organize a Game Jam of some sorts and motivate and kick procrastination in the rear with the end goal of having produced Visual Novels at the end of the month for everyone to enjoy...
I was hoping for an answer like that, but from all the rules that were redacted or literally mentioned to be just guidelines, the starting date rule seemed to be the only exception. Couldn't find a single post suggesting it was okay. But I should've known, even in real life I tend to take the rules more seriously than everyone else, several occasions where I adhered to a black-and-white rule that none of the students and even teachers even knew existed.
Rinima wrote:I don't see why not. I mean, it's not like anyone is going to be like "NU. YOU CAN NOT DO THAT, PREPARE TO DIE" and then track you down and kill you :lol: (and if they do, they need to get a life).
You've got to tell me which alternative to the internet you've been using.
Just kidding, I know Lemmasoft isn't like that. But I'm more wary about starting a project and then hearing it getting scrapped from the list when others have already joined and placed their trust and time in it. I'd still try to finish it, but I'd hate for others to be involved in my mistakes.
Yunou wrote:Also, OP, I've never participated in Nanoreno because of the time commitment being incompatible with my schedule the past few times it's come around, but I wouldn't worry about it. If it gets your game out then do it.
I'm not certain if I'll have the time to write a story quickly and on command either, I'm terrible with having deadlines (reaching deadlines too, but in the opposite way. Tend to finish something weeks in advance to avoid any kind of rush-stress). Which is why I saved a story from all the way back in Juli instead. I'll have plenty of time to discuss with people though, those are two entirely different forms of scheduling to me.


Thanks guys, I guess that unless a tide of contrary comments rolls in before Februari I'll just go ahead with the Nanoreno idea.
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Re: A loophole in the loose rules of Nanoreno, hopefully?

#6 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:05 am

Mammon wrote: Thanks guys, I guess that unless a tide of contrary comments rolls in before Februari I'll just go ahead with the Nanoreno idea.
Like everyone else has said, I wouldn't stress too much over the time frame and start restrictions. I would just mention in your NanoReno thread to everyone you didn't do it all in just one month. The PURPOSE of NanoReno is to get people motivated to release games and spur them to do so. Since we aren't handing out cash prizes or awards or anything, I don't think many people care if your game was actually all done start to finish in one month.

Heck - I'm starting my NanoReno release now, because I tried to do it "pure" last year, writing, programming, and doing the art, as well as testing, proved to be too much for one guy to handle in a single month. So I'm using NanoReno as my deadline this year instead. I'll let everyone know I cheated in my thread post, and hopefully no one will want to lynch me. :mrgreen: (I suspect they'd want to lynch me more if I didn't release anything.)

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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of Nanoreno?

#7 Post by YonYonYon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:27 am

This post and the responses are actually very inspirational for someone like me, who never finished anything but still wants to participate in nanoreno
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Re: A loophole in the loose rules of Nanoreno, hopefully?

#8 Post by Mammon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:39 am

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Like everyone else has said, I wouldn't stress too much over the time frame and start restrictions. I would just mention in your NanoReno thread to everyone you didn't do it all in just one month.
Heck - I'm starting my NanoReno release now, because I tried to do it "pure" last year, writing, programming, and doing the art, as well as testing, proved to be too much for one guy to handle in a single month. So I'm using NanoReno as my deadline this year instead. I'll let everyone know I cheated in my thread post, and hopefully no one will want to lynch me. :mrgreen: (I suspect they'd want to lynch me more if I didn't release anything.)
Oh, good call. I'll mention it in the recruitment thread but I hadn't thought ahead to the eventual WiP and completed game thread yet. And it's good to hear that others are not taking the starting date too seriously either.
YonYonYon wrote:This post and the responses are actually very inspirational for someone like me, who never finished anything but still wants to participate in nanoreno.
Always keep your mind open for a project, I didn't even expect to write a single actual scene for Stalker&Yandere when I started it's summary. It just kind of happened. You might find yourself looking at an unexpectedly finished script too one day. :mrgreen: Just keep writing and you'll eventually finish something. Probably...
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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of Nanoreno?

#9 Post by Donmai » Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:42 am

Well, I believe NaNoRenO's true spirit has always been something like "get your a** moving and finish that damn project".
I'm a LemmaSoft paleontologist in my (very little) spare time. After doing some digging, I found evidence that NaNoRenO rules started to be discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=272
It's curious to notice that someone considered suggesting that KNs should be banned from NaNo (Oh! No! :shock: No Juniper's Knot?). :lol:
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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of Nanoreno?

#10 Post by PyTom » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:27 am

I'm a little worried that NaNoRenO projects are getting so elaborate that people have to feel that they have to start early. To me an important part of NaNoRenO is to encourage people to either descope their projects, or take on projects that are sized in a way that they can handle. When people do things like starting months early, or trying to push themselves and their team in a near-superhuman manner, I kind of worry a bit that it's sort of getting away from the spirit of the event a little.

Especially when you think that NaNoRenO is meant to encourage people to complete and release their first visual novels. I think it's one thing to have a newbie compare their visual novel to an experience person who spend a month on it. That's the difference experience makes. But when a new user compares themselves to a game it took months to work on - that seems kind of different to me.
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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#11 Post by Mammon » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:41 pm

Donmai wrote:I'm a LemmaSoft paleontologist in my (very little) spare time. After doing some digging, I found evidence that NaNoRenO rules started to be discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=272
Wow, looking through that thread I felt like looking at an exhibition in a museum indeed. To see someone suggest the rules of NaNoRenO and seeing so many people who joined in 2004 reply...
PyTom wrote:I'm a little worried that NaNoRenO projects are getting so elaborate that people have to feel that they have to start early. To me an important part of NaNoRenO is to encourage people to either descope their projects, or take on projects that are sized in a way that they can handle. When people do things like starting months early, or trying to push themselves and their team in a near-superhuman manner, I kind of worry a bit that it's sort of getting away from the spirit of the event a little.
Especially when you think that NaNoRenO is meant to encourage people to complete and release their first visual novels. I think it's one thing to have a newbie compare their visual novel to an experience person who spend a month on it. That's the difference experience makes. But when a new user compares themselves to a game it took months to work on - that seems kind of different to me.
That's not a no... is it? There's not a single no in it! Well, except for naNOreNO... It's final, the loosening exist!

No need to worry about the scope of the project, I decided to keep S&Y locked up until NaNoRenO because it was such a small project written in just two days. I recall it being around 10.000 words? I think this project's size will be less problematic than the average NaNoRenO project actually, as I can tell the applicants exactly how much they'll have to make in a month without later additions to their workload. Three character sprites f.ex., and I can even give the exact amount of expressions once I open the file too. Not to mention I won't have very high standards, if no one applies for one of the tasks I'll either use CC or do it myself. Unless it's GUI, I'm terrified of programming GUI.
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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#12 Post by sake-bento » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:48 am

I vaguely recall something called IntRenAiMo, which runs alongside NaNoRenO, but was a tag used for games already in progress in which the month was meant to add an extra "sprint" of work to finish the project. I could, of course, be horribly misremembering.

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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#13 Post by PyTom » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:10 pm

That's what IntRenAiMo turned into - release your project by the end of March.

It originally was an alternate name I proposed for NaNoRenO - International Ren'Ai Month. (For a while, we called visual novels Ren'Ai games.) It didn't take off, but unlike NaNoRenO, it at least has a proper expansion. NaNoRenO doesn't mean much. :)
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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#14 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:56 pm

PyTom wrote:That's what IntRenAiMo turned into - release your project by the end of March.

It originally was an alternate name I proposed for NaNoRenO - International Ren'Ai Month. (For a while, we called visual novels Ren'Ai games.) It didn't take off, but unlike NaNoRenO, it at least has a proper expansion. NaNoRenO doesn't mean much. :)
Oh, I had forgotten about that. Then, yeah, I guess people like me are working on IntRanAiMo projects. I'll use that for the thread title when I post - we'll revive the term this year.

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Re: The oh so vague and loose rules of NaNoRenO?

#15 Post by Mammon » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:02 pm

PyTom wrote:but unlike NaNoRenO, it at least has a proper expansion. NaNoRenO doesn't mean much. :)
That's a reoccurring trend around here, almost as if the term name has to make no sense as a condition for people to use it. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to CG some more kinetic novel. :lol:
LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Oh, I had forgotten about that. Then, yeah, I guess people like me are working on IntRanAiMo projects. I'll use that for the thread title when I post - we'll revive the term this year.
Deal, together we'll revive another term to confuse the newbies with! :twisted:

Just kidding. I'll use the word in my thread&title, but without the nefarious agenda.
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