Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan)

Forum organization and occasional community-building.
Forum rules
Questions about Ren'Py should go in the Ren'Py Questions and Announcements forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan)

#1 Post by csjamen » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:45 pm

Hi guys, CSJ here!!

This topic has been confusing me for a lot of time already. I'm not sure if this is the place to ask this, and if its seems out of place, please tell me.

Here goes... first the premise.

I am currently creating a visual novel which main setting is in my country, Philippines. I cannot delve too much in the details, but to further give you information about the question, I guess I need to at least give this much.

The MP is a Filipino (Lenard Rhaine Arevalo) & the main heroine is a Japanese (Ichisaki Tomoe).
(This doesn't count as spoilers, right?)

Now for the questions:
1. If they decided to get married in Japan, what are the changes that will happen regarding their names?
2. How about if they got themselves a son/daughter while living in Japan? What are their names going to be likely? Is there a naming convention special to Japan?
3. I know this is rare but there is some instance where the guy (this time, Lenard) decided to get adopted to the girl's family (Tomoe's family) before they got married in Japan? What are the changes with their names going to be?

Thank you guys! I still haven't got a concrete answer for this. Maybe it's out there, but frankly I'm just feeling lazy today. Please tell me what you think.

User avatar
Evy
Regular
Posts: 128
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:46 pm
Projects: Meet Me At Sea, All That Glitters
Organization: Paper Parrot
Tumblr: clysmian
itch: clysmian
Location: Gatineau
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#2 Post by Evy » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:54 pm

I can't really go into detail so I'm just going off the top of my head, but in Japan it's not necessary for the bride to take her husband's name; instead, one person marries into their spouse's family and adopts their name, so you can have a man marrying into his wife's family and entering her household with her name. In doing so, all their in-laws also "become" their family. Whoever marries into the household will call their father-in-law father, mother-in-law mother, and so on. Younger siblings will address the older party as siblings as well. I assume that any children born from their union will also carry the name of the household.

I don't know anything about marriage/naming customs in the Philippines, though. I believe wikipedia has several articles about that stuff (which, incidentally, is where I learned the above).

User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#3 Post by csjamen » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:08 pm

Evy wrote:I can't really go into detail so I'm just going off the top of my head, but in Japan it's not necessary for the bride to take her husband's name; instead, one person marries into their spouse's family and adopts their name, so you can have a man marrying into his wife's family and entering her household with her name. In doing so, all their in-laws also "become" their family. Whoever marries into the household will call their father-in-law father, mother-in-law mother, and so on. Younger siblings will address the older party as siblings as well. I assume that any children born from their union will also carry the name of the household.

I don't know anything about marriage/naming customs in the Philippines, though. I believe wikipedia has several articles about that stuff (which, incidentally, is where I learned the above).
The naming convention here in Philippines is basically the same in USA or other western countries (as far as I know). Going with my example, if the two gets married in Philippines. Lenard will retain his name, while Tomoe's name will be changed to Tomoe Ichisaki Arevalo (now that I've written it this way, I'm actually having doubts).

Regarding your answers though, I'm thinking pretty much the same way. This "Adoption"to the family thing is just what's confusing me. I do think that if they did get married in Japan, it will be much convenient if Lenard gets adopted to Ichisaki family so that their future son/daughter will never have anymore conflict regarding their names. So far I am leaning at that solution.

If someone can give further clarifications. It will be much appreciated.

User avatar
Imperf3kt
Lemma-Class Veteran
Posts: 2998
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:05 am
Location: Your monitor
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#4 Post by Imperf3kt » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:32 pm

There's no difference to other countries: its optional. Either party may change or keep their maiden name.
This, of course, only applies to modern Japan, I do not know about pre-WW II Japan.

If you are bothered by it that much, I could maybe ask a Japanese friend of mine. I don't know when / if he will answer this kind of question though.
Warning: May contain trace amounts of gratuitous plot.
pro·gram·mer (noun) An organism capable of converting caffeine into code.

Twitter
Imperf3kt Blackjack - a WIP blackjack game for Android made using Ren'Py
Free Android GUI - Updated occasionally

User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#5 Post by csjamen » Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:36 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:There's no difference to other countries: its optional. Either party may change or keep their maiden name.
This, of course, only applies to modern Japan, I do not know about pre-WW II Japan.

If you are bothered by it that much, I could maybe ask a Japanese friend of mine. I don't know when / if he will answer this kind of question though.
That would be a really great help. Thanks. Don't worry about the time. I've been checking this forum almost everyday anyway.

User avatar
indoneko
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:00 am
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#6 Post by indoneko » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:05 pm

Unless you're targeting Japan as the main market of your game, I don't think you have to completely follow all of japanese conventions to make your story believable.

For example... some people from western countries would probably raised one eyebrow when instead of simply called as "arevalo" or "Mr.Arevalo", they found that the protagonist were called differently by different person in Ichisaki's family : Arevalo-kun, Arevalo-dono, Arevalo-san, Arevalo-chan, Arevalo-tan, Arevalo-sama, Arevalo-chama, Arevalo-tama, etc... :lol:
My avatar is courtesy of Mellanthe

User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#7 Post by csjamen » Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:26 pm

indoneko wrote:Unless you're targeting Japan as the main market of your game, I don't think you have to completely follow all of japanese conventions to make your story believable.

For example... some people from western countries would probably raised one eyebrow when instead of simply called as "arevalo" or "Mr.Arevalo", they found that the protagonist were called differently by different person in Ichisaki's family : Arevalo-kun, Arevalo-dono, Arevalo-san, Arevalo-chan, Arevalo-tan, Arevalo-sama, Arevalo-chama, Arevalo-tama, etc... :lol:
I'm actually more concerned at how their names will change "legally" after the marriage in accordance to Japan's naming convention. From what I can discern from the reply, it's more about how they will be addressed in conversations is such. That is of course another matter of discussion since there is a disparity and a little "weirdness" between how a person is addressed when it came to visual novels (you know, changes in localization and translations and stuffs..). Thanks for the reply, though.

User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#8 Post by csjamen » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:20 pm

bump
(is it okay to bump like this... according to the FAQ, I can bump with a "Bump Topic" feature(?), but i can't find one...)

User avatar
indoneko
Miko-Class Veteran
Posts: 528
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:00 am
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#9 Post by indoneko » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:00 pm

IIRC, admins here don't actually allow people to bump topics with just "bump" or "up". You should add new stuff (which is related to the topic) in your comment/reply.

As for my previous reply, the point is that the honorific system is just the tip of an iceberg. And so is your legal aspect of japanese naming convention. Unless you're actually planning to match EVERY aspect of your game/story with the REAL japanese culture, I don't see any reason why you have to worry about whether your character's names complies with the actual japanese law or not. As other poster has already mentioned, it's optional in Japan, and you can chose whichever you want.
My avatar is courtesy of Mellanthe

User avatar
csjamen
Newbie
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:51 pm
Tumblr: none
Deviantart: none
Github: none
Skype: none
Soundcloud: none
itch: none
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#10 Post by csjamen » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:08 am

indoneko wrote:IIRC, admins here don't actually allow people to bump topics with just "bump" or "up". You should add new stuff (which is related to the topic) in your comment/reply.

As for my previous reply, the point is that the honorific system is just the tip of an iceberg. And so is your legal aspect of japanese naming convention. Unless you're actually planning to match EVERY aspect of your game/story with the REAL japanese culture, I don't see any reason why you have to worry about whether your character's names complies with the actual japanese law or not. As other poster has already mentioned, it's optional in Japan, and you can chose whichever you want.
Thanks for the reply and clarification.

I wasn't planning to actually focus purely on the Japanese culture (even though I kinda want to... *sigh* Nippon, you're so close, yet so far), since the main setting of my visual novel will be in Philippines. It just came into as an ending option. I personally like Amagami (the anime) and so the idea of having children as ending reward came to the idea. I've delved much more into the issue using the interwebz but it seems like I still have more to learn. If someone can add more to the conversation, it will be great. Thanks.

User avatar
Anyubel
Regular
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:38 pm
Projects: Project Miasma
Deviantart: AnyuBel
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#11 Post by Anyubel » Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:09 pm

I'm not quite sure about (1) and (3), but I think that I can partially answer (2). I don't think this is true for all naming conventions, but some people choose to use the same root for siblings' names (kind of like Tomoko and her brother Tomoki in WataMote).

User avatar
Mariche
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 4:48 am
Tumblr: Mariche
Deviantart: Mariche
Github: Mariche
Skype: Mariche
Soundcloud: Mariche
itch: Mariche
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#12 Post by Mariche » Sat May 20, 2017 5:00 am

that's so nice I am about to get married to a Japanese man, thanks for answering!

Banana
Newbie
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 5:26 pm
Tumblr: waitingformycoffin
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#13 Post by Banana » Sun May 21, 2017 8:40 am

Legally, it's true that you have the option of using the family name of either spouse. But here's the catch - the bottom line is that both spouses MUST have the same family name, and in practice, 99% of Japanese families use the husband's surname. Recently, a married Japanese woman went to court to fight for the right to use her own name in a professional setting (because of personal branding issues), and was struck down. She is now legally bound to use her husband's name, even though all her clients know her by her maiden name. It's a very disruptive and harmful issue for working women.

You can, of course, have the husband adopt the family name Ichisaki instead. But regardless of which you choose, the surname has to be the same. That means that all the children will have that family name by default.

Now, this is for Japanese citizens, so depending on whether or not your main hero becomes a Japanese citizen or permanent resident, the circumstances might be different. My best guess is that if the couple plans to live permanently in Japan, legally marry in Japan, and have your hero acquire Japanese citizenship, they would be subject to the same rules. I'm also assuming that your heroine is a Japanese citizen.

User avatar
Shipwrecker
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:50 am
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: Naming conventions (question regarding marriage in Japan

#14 Post by Shipwrecker » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:23 pm

As a foreigner married to a Japanese in Japan, I can shed a little light on this.

As Banana said above, married couples in Japan have to have the same surname legally. Although this is also true for a mixed nationality couple, in practice Japanese authorities usually turn a blind eye and it has become a bit of a grey zone (although the law is black and white, it is not enforced). So essentially, a foreign woman can marry a Japanese man and keep her maiden name, as the ward office probably won't bother to do anything.

What often happens when a Japanese woman marries a foreign man is that they legally change their name in the records, but continue to use their maiden name professionally.

My wife has adopted my surname and uses it most of the time, but in a previous job where she had to speak on the phone a lot, she used her maiden name because she was tired of always having to repeat and explain her foreign name.

I'm not sure how it applies to kids. All the mixed race kids I know (including my own) use their father's surname, but I don't know if this is a legal requirement. When the dad is a foreigner, it's not uncommon for them to use the mother's Japanese name as a kind of middle name (as middle names are pretty rare in Japan, there don't seem to be any rules regarding them). I've also met kids who have different legal names for different countries (e.g. different names in their Japanese and foreign passports).

Hope this helps.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users