Looking for VN suggestions

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Ghost of Crux
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Looking for VN suggestions

#1 Post by Ghost of Crux » Fri Jun 23, 2017 4:24 pm

After playing (and immensely enjoying) Blind Men and casually ignoring all the war novels I bought months prior I realized that I have no idea if there are VNs of these nature that 1) aren't made up of really young cast (below mid-20's), 2) lacks the permeating stress and terror on the layer of brotherhood and casual nihilism and Doomed People Wanting To Come Home and 3) aren't set in a fantasy/high-sci-fi/dystopian setting.
It's not that I don't enjoy the story just because it's got one of above, it's just-- it's a very specific craving, if you know what I mean. I have a stack of haul next to me that is almost purely books about both World Wars and the Vietnam war. It's That kind of craving.

I just really, really want a more down-to-earth story with preferably characters that aren't too young set in a war setting; art style I'm willing to wave a bit, though honestly I'm not a big fan of cute anime girls for this. It'll be especially awesome if anyone can direct me to any with BxB too, but that's really, really optional.

As a side note, I'd also love it if anyone's got anything set in Cold War era! Spies stuff are really cool too, and I have a craving... (I LOVE OLD SPY STUFF)

It's probably not the most common thing around, but one can hope... <:'D

Edited because my main issue is apparently not with age but with the lack of terrible

Things found so far:
Ghost of Crux wrote:Also! Something actually relevant to my OP--
Someone on Twitter hit me up with this: Because We're Here by Studio Elfriede. It's apparently an otome set in an alternate WW1. It looks super promising (still have to get home to play) and I feel sad reading the premise already :'D
Last edited by Ghost of Crux on Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Looking for VN suggestions

#2 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:13 pm

Ghost of Crux wrote:2) lacks the permeating stress and terror on the layer of brotherhood and casual nihilism and Doomed People Wanting To Come Home
I guess I'm not understanding this criteria. Are you NOT wanting permeating stress to be a factor in the story? Because realistically, that goes hand-in-hand with the nihilism and other stuff. In a war zone, you're bored, stressed that you might not make it home, or that your friends will die, and all that is punctuated by moments of terror as an explosion goes off, or bullets suddenly start flying. When it is quiet, and you are staring out at the same view for hours and hours at time, or just laying awake waiting for your firewatch to start, that's when the nihilism kicks in. When you wonder if you're really actually accomplishing anything, if the death of your friends actually meant anything.
Ghost of Crux wrote: I just really, really want a more down-to-earth story with preferably characters that aren't too young set in a war setting;
I served with kids as young as 17 in the Marines. Full-fledged infantry Marine, and the kid couldn't legally buy cigarettes. When I look back at it, we were all kids. The bulk of the Marines we have deployed are younger than 20. Even the "salty" Sergeants are like 22-23. Old men start wars, young men fight them. A great deal of the insurgents we fight are that age or even younger. Many are 15-16. Sadly, I don't think the tendency of anime to place teens into war is that unrealistic. Teens are the easiest to rile up with ideals, propaganda, and jingoism. By the time a person has hit their mid-twenties they are starting to think too critically for those to be as effective.

True stories from the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan or Syria sound like they'd scratch your itch, but I don't think anyone has made VNs with that subject matter yet. Most of the time a developer tries to make a game set in such a place, there is an outcry against it. As you can imagine, it can be hard to stomach seeing someone make a 'game' or romanticize a conflict or battle you participated in or lost friends to. I don't like playing even fictionalized games using the modern Middle East war setting - but that's just me. I have friends who were in the same platoon as me that love the fictional modern Call of Duty games.

And yeah, I'd certainly be annoyed seeing 'cute anime girl' versions of the conflicts where I personally buried people. I guess it is why World War 2 is such an acceptable setting - not many people left alive that personally experienced that. Especially not gamers!

I too, think a realistic Cold War spy VN would be neat. Less of a body count there too.

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Re: Looking for VN suggestions

#3 Post by Ghost of Crux » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:03 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:
Ghost of Crux wrote:2) lacks the permeating stress and terror on the layer of brotherhood and casual nihilism and Doomed People Wanting To Come Home
I guess I'm not understanding this criteria. Are you NOT wanting permeating stress to be a factor in the story? Because realistically, that goes hand-in-hand with the nihilism and other stuff. In a war zone, you're bored, stressed that you might not make it home, or that your friends will die, and all that is punctuated by moments of terror as an explosion goes off, or bullets suddenly start flying. When it is quiet, and you are staring out at the same view for hours and hours at time, or just laying awake waiting for your firewatch to start, that's when the nihilism kicks in. When you wonder if you're really actually accomplishing anything, if the death of your friends actually meant anything.
OH, I meant that I WANT the permeating stress in the story. It's honestly what I felt wasn't there when I skim through pages of war-themed VNs. While yes, they do have the same themes, I feel like they're... they lack exactly what you're talking about. This is mostly why I am asking for non-fantasy and sci-fi VNs-- these aspects seem to be more commonly glossed over in these genres especially.
I served with kids as young as 17 in the Marines. Full-fledged infantry Marine, and the kid couldn't legally buy cigarettes. When I look back at it, we were all kids. The bulk of the Marines we have deployed are younger than 20. Even the "salty" Sergeants are like 22-23. Old men start wars, young men fight them. A great deal of the insurgents we fight are that age or even younger. Many are 15-16. Sadly, I don't think the tendency of anime to place teens into war is that unrealistic. Teens are the easiest to rile up with ideals, propaganda, and jingoism. By the time a person has hit their mid-twenties they are starting to think too critically for those to be as effective.
OH. True that-- I didn't think of it.
The only reason why I put that in there is honestly because of... anime ^^;; So that's a good point, actually. (A horrifying one, too)
I'm getting sad thinking about it but yeah, I see what you mean.

My negative association with cute anime art style where characters who are 24 look 13 in this is honestly like... it's... hard to dissociate "romanticizing the issue" with the art style here. I mean it's not always the case? But I've grown wary of it. I am petty like that LMAO
True stories from the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan or Syria sound like they'd scratch your itch, but I don't think anyone has made VNs with that subject matter yet. Most of the time a developer tries to make a game set in such a place, there is an outcry against it. As you can imagine, it can be hard to stomach seeing someone make a 'game' or romanticize a conflict or battle you participated in or lost friends to. I don't like playing even fictionalized games using the modern Middle East war setting - but that's just me. I have friends who were in the same platoon as me that love the fictional modern Call of Duty games.

And yeah, I'd certainly be annoyed seeing 'cute anime girl' versions of the conflicts where I personally buried people. I guess it is why World War 2 is such an acceptable setting - not many people left alive that personally experienced that. Especially not gamers!
To be fair to them, there's a good reason why they might feel that way. It can easily get romanticized, and when the wounds are still fresh it's... I don't think censorship is the way, but at the same time I can see where they're coming from. I don't think very many people play non-story-heavy games to feel despair. Doesn't help that certain game genres are heavily about power fantasies.

And honestly? I think there are certain aspects of this that is still far too recent and too poorly understood by people who are not immersed in the topic, eg. people familiar with history and politics of the area, that I'm not entirely certain that many people in VN dev world would approach the topic. They also risk accidentally bumping against one side or another in a still-controversial topic, too-- not really a fun thing when you're a small team or even just a hobbyist.
Lastly, and this is just my personal feelings on the matter, but I am not certain about approaching games set in these areas at least purely on setting fidelity LOL I lived for a couple years in Jordan prior to the conflict (like, a few months later bombings started) and I have yet to see depictions of the area that isn't... yeah.
I too, think a realistic Cold War spy VN would be neat. Less of a body count there too.
I want this... Not always easy to get data on settings, but I think there are a bunch of first-hand accounts out there. (Also, that entire thing with socially reforming and destroying other countries? Terrible, terrible thing that is rarely utilized in fiction of the genre :'p)
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Re: Looking for VN suggestions

#4 Post by LateWhiteRabbit » Fri Jun 23, 2017 6:49 pm

Ghost of Crux wrote:Doesn't help that certain game genres are heavily about power fantasies.

And honestly? I think there are certain aspects of this that is still far too recent and too poorly understood by people who are not immersed in the topic, eg. people familiar with history and politics of the area, that I'm not entirely certain that many people in VN dev world would approach the topic. They also risk accidentally bumping against one side or another in a still-controversial topic, too-- not really a fun thing when you're a small team or even just a hobbyist.
Lastly, and this is just my personal feelings on the matter, but I am not certain about approaching games set in these areas at least purely on setting fidelity LOL I lived for a couple years in Jordan prior to the conflict (like, a few months later bombings started) and I have yet to see depictions of the area that isn't... yeah.
Ah. Then you understand the feeling well. I get annoyed with companies like Treyarch and Infinity Ward profiting off games with the modern war setting - taking money to give people the power trip of fighting in a 'cool' modern war that's still going on. All from the safety of their living rooms. Giving points for killing people in a conflict that is still going on at this very moment. That's kind of dystopian. But I know most players don't give it that much thought.

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Re: Looking for VN suggestions

#5 Post by Ghost of Crux » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:31 pm

LateWhiteRabbit wrote:Ah. Then you understand the feeling well. I get annoyed with companies like Treyarch and Infinity Ward profiting off games with the modern war setting - taking money to give people the power trip of fighting in a 'cool' modern war that's still going on. All from the safety of their living rooms. Giving points for killing people in a conflict that is still going on at this very moment. That's kind of dystopian. But I know most players don't give it that much thought.
I frankly don't really like seeing even this happening to WW2 settings since I know some people still feel its effects down the family but yeah. It doesn't help that for the Middle Eastern settings, it also feeds the terrorism stereotyping :x
Makes me think about the underestimated and sometimes even accidental political messages in games, heh.

Also! Something actually relevant to my OP--
Someone on Twitter hit me up with this: Because We're Here by Studio Elfriede. It's apparently an otome set in an alternate WW1. It looks super promising (still have to get home to play) and I feel sad reading the premise already :'D
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