Neural Network and VNs

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Morhighan
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Neural Network and VNs

#1 Post by Morhighan » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:10 am

I recently was reading up on Neural Networks and found them to be pretty interesting! (If a bit beyond me.)

What really sparked my interest was this article.

Basically, a team at Georgia Institute of Technology programmed a neural network AI to create interactive fiction by reading other people's stories.

You can check it out here:


I also love that the AI is named Scheherazade-IF (IF = Interactive Fiction) after the storyteller of One Thousand and One Nights.

I'm not sure what the practical application for making a VN using a neural network would be, but I do find it an interesting concept!

Give the article a read and let me know what you think.
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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#2 Post by Mammon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:20 am

You're telling me that in a couple of years, writers will be obsolete and replaced by computer programs?

...

Okay. Good thing I'm not planning to become a professional writer then.
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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#3 Post by Dark Sentinel » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:44 am

None of us would required in maybe fifteen years.
VNs? You can use NN to generate sprites and CGs. Same for text. Coding... well, standard templates and done.
Movies? Hell, there're movies where you only need to change the main hero's car, color of his necktie, his girlfriend and his opponent. Animations? NN. Models and textures? Mix of NN and procedural generation. Actors? Okay, invite one, greenscreen him/her, rest can be handled by threedee. Voices? Modern voice generators are almost good. Music? Procedural. SFX? Mix of pre-recorded and procedural. Logic? Hell, do you need logic or boobs and explosions? Render, release, make money, rinse, repeat.
You can apply this approach to AAAA next-gen games. No need for designers, for artists - just feed data into your everything generator. Make game, release, make money, add DLCs, sequels and OHMYGOD, custom-crafted no-procedural-generated-content add-on just for 999.99 credits for you to enjoy the work of the great 3D artist of past era.

tl;dr future looks grim.
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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#4 Post by Fuseblower » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:52 am

I don't think humans will be obsolete any time soon. Humans don't serve a purpose, things serve a purpose to humans :D

People are still willing to pay millions for paintings. The photo camera didn't change that. The difference is that something that is made by a human took a human person a certain amount of effort and skill. People are willing to pay for that even if, logically, there is no difference in the quality of the product made by a human or a product made by a machine. Actually, stuff made by machines is often quite superior.

Or take sports. I'm impressed by Usain Bolt even though I could easily outrun him in my car. For years there has been robot soccer. Hardly anyone watches it... although if you're Dutch or American you might start watching it now :lol:

Still, it's an interesting development. I hope better AI will improve NPC interaction in World of Warcraft :lol:

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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#5 Post by Karl_C » Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:44 am

Morhighan wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:10 am
What really sparked my interest was this article.
Interesting... ;)
"When we first tried the date at the movie theatre, we expected to see things about buying concessions, finding seats, etc," said Mark Riedl, who co-authored a paper on Scheherazade-IF's AI (he also worked on that AI that generates Super Mario levels). "The system learned that people should hold hands and kiss. This was great, because it is the sort of thing that we geeky AI researchers might have overlooked if we had to program the 'script' for going to a movie theater."

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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#6 Post by Morhighan » Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:04 am

@Mammon and @Dark Sentinel -- I can see your thought process, but I don't an individual's experiences and creativity can be replaced by a Neural Network. Not yet. ;)

@Fuseblower I quite agree with you!

@Karl_C
Karl_C wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:44 am
"When we first tried the date at the movie theatre, we expected to see things about buying concessions, finding seats, etc," said Mark Riedl, who co-authored a paper on Scheherazade-IF's AI (he also worked on that AI that generates Super Mario levels). "The system learned that people should hold hands and kiss. This was great, because it is the sort of thing that we geeky AI researchers might have overlooked if we had to program the 'script' for going to a movie theater."

This part of the article really captured my attention! It's really fascinating to me!
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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#7 Post by neowired » Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:23 pm

From my understanding of it, the difficulty with A.I. writing lengthy fiction is it's lack of understanding of what it's writing about. It will inevitably learn to do it one day, but I think it will be one of the last things A.I. will master.

Asking an A.I. to write a story is like asking it to become sentient and comprehend humans. To master this kind of task you need a general A.I. Beating people at GO is a much simpler task, with a limited set of rules to follow. Writing a story is a very open task with very vague rules, and it's difficult to find a way to express it to an A.I. what it is supposed to be doing.

An A.I. writing a story without comprehension, can create stories which will seem very creative, but likely lack coherence or a proper planned out plot-chain. It's mimicry without understanding of the underlying principles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM5NaGoynjE
Deep learning A.I. is pretty good at mimicking some simpler things, but has difficulty grasping deeper meanings and understanding larger structures. Likely because it' s not a general A.I. it doesn't understand what it's expressing, it just looks at what humans do and tries to generate something similar at surface layer.

For example wavenet can mimic how you sound, but it doesn't know the meaning of your words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EODKgrYMoS0

Deep learning A.I. can be very creative, probably too creative, what it lacks is an understanding of structure.

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Re: Neural Network and VNs

#8 Post by zankizuna » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:57 am

This is so interesting and cool to see!
So... there'll be an AI-made VN soon? huhuhu will it learn to code renpy? I feel it'll be too complex.
I was thinking of adding AI logic to a Ren'py code itself. But ugh it's so hard!

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