Protesting the Pirate Bay Protests

[Jo'ogn]

The point of the scenario is for you to see the true impact of your belief.

In every single moment a lot of beliefs are at work and their outcome is hard to tell, before sth really happens.

Have you been mugged before?

No.

I'm discussing about the money-less society(though now it seems to have drifted to the argument about choice)

Well a moneyless system would be a choice. You wouldn't need to mug me for money, I wouldn't need to worry about being 'unemployed' and others wouldn't need to 'pirate' software anymore.

[anon]

I have attained enlightenment of the nature of the internet from reading your incessant argumentation.

Witness and phear da truth!

[JQuartz]

In every single moment a lot of beliefs are at work and their outcome is hard to tell, before sth really happens.

Yes, outcomes are hard to tell but I'm not really asking about the outcome since I've already provided the outcome(gives the money to the mugger). What I asked is "whether the person that was mugged can be classified as a victim." So I'll ask again: if I aim my gun at your head at point blank range, ask you to give me all your money and you did, can you be classified as a victim or would you just be considered as a masochist for making the choice of giving me all your money?

JQuartz wrote:
Have you been mugged before?
No.

You're lucky to live in such a safe country. I got a schoolmate who was mugged and killed at a route that I always pass though. Every time I pass through that path, I wonder if I would have been the person who was killed if the mugger committed the crime a few hours earlier...

Well a moneyless system would be a choice.

If you just want it to be a choice, then you already can start the system. Just register people that what to follow the moneyless system and implement it among yourselves first. If it works, more people would join and it'll become global one day.

You wouldn't need to mug me for money, I wouldn't need to worry about being 'unemployed' and others wouldn't need to 'pirate' software anymore.

Well, you can try the moneyless system for yourself and see if anyone within the system would do such things. But I believe it'll still would. These things are caused by greed which would still exist in the moneyless society. If they're aren't greedy, they wouldn't have done these even in a money society.

[JQuartz]

Witness and phear da truth!

I couldn't hear much of the lyrics because the audio is unclear. I only managed to hear "Porn, porn, porn!" I wonder if that was intentional...

Yeah, Internet(or any other media) had already been acknowledged to have been made popular in the beginning of it's birth(which allowed it to become the widely used media it is today) by porn. Here an article about it:http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... stAdopters

[PyTom]

I only managed to hear "Porn, porn, porn!" I wonder if that was intentional...

Yep. Here's a version that uses the studio recording and subtitles. (But they redid the graphics using world of warcraft.)



NSFW, obviously.

[Jo'ogn]

can you be classified as a victim or would you just be considered as a masochist for making the choice of giving me all your money?

For a short answer, let me quote Vorlon ambassador Kosh: "Yes."

[JQuartz]

Yep. Here's a version that uses the studio recording and subtitles.

Thanks for the better version. This is one of the reasons why I prefer subbed anime instead of dubbed ones. You won't need to worry about not being able to hear what they say.

[JQuartz]

For a short answer, let me quote Vorlon ambassador Kosh: "Yes."

Yes, a victim or yes, not a victim but a masochist?

[Ramidel]

...This topic has gone completely to hell. So, to answer the threadjack on abused women facing threat of life:

Generally speaking, they don't have a good alternative. Often, they are financially dependent upon their male partner; if they ran away, they would suffer from homelessness and destitution. That is not a trivial sacrifice. Losing their children is also not a trivial sacrifice. And, of course, risk of death is not a trivial risk, as papillon has stated. Changing the situation by killing the male partner, of course, creates a risk of life imprisonment, as well as failing to pull it off; I find that rather the least likely solution to succeed.

Accepting the situation is simply, as the woman sees it, the best solution; the best of a bad lot, because the legal system is not set up to protect people, but to punish people after the fact. Nobody can protect her; she lives in a world where her options are to stay in the relationship until she may eventually be killed later...but chances are, it'll be years from now, and at least the kids will be safe...or take a much, much higher risk of death in the hopes of somehow fixing it, either by fighting or fleeing.
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A moneyless society? Would you create this by simply refusing to honor money? (This would merely create a barter economy, which would transition back to a money economy as a matter of efficiency, due to letters of credit being the most efficient way to transfer goods.) By expropriating all goods from everyone? Or by simply gathering your peeps and shutting out the outside world?

Destroying property rights would, of course, require force and totalitarian measures, as well as create a serious question of resource allocation. As a rule, mostly-uncontrolled markets are the most efficient means of resource allocation we've developed. (I say mostly, because really hardcore laissez-faire capitalism leads to several dangerous failure modes, such as underdeveloped infrastructure and monopolies, as well as being unsustainable due to governmental capture by the rich and powerful.) The Soviet Union never even -reached- "no property rights," and if you did, you'd still have to have a massive technocracy, which would end up doing little sub-trades of favors to ensure the best stuff gets allocated to the powerful...here we go again!

Gathering your own commune? Okay, try that. Seriously. Go out into the wilderness, farm your own food, subsistence hunt, and don't buy anything from anyone. There are real hermits who can actually do that. You probably can't.

[DaFool]

http://www.angryharry.com/esVictimsOfDo ... olence.htm

[papillon]

(And here I was trying not to post in this thread anymore... I fail.)

It's true that male victims of actual domestic abuse need protection and sympathy too, but a good bit of that particular page is absolute nonsense, although that should be obvious just from looking at the page formatting, which screams kook.

Convincing someone else to kill a man for you (especially if you intended to do this all along) is not domestic violence, it's hired murder, same as paying a hitman. It's clearly a crime! But it's not the same crime, and it couldn't be dealt with using the same resources as those aimed at victims of domestic violence. The author is just trying to make up ways to make the numbers equal, which is fairly obvious.

Now, male victims of domestic violence do get the short end of the stick, because what services exist are generally keyed to women, and often have staff who have become rabid man-haters and will assume any man seeking support is at best a liar and at worst trying to infiltrate so he can beat up women. That's not helping. Obviously.

[Jake]

The author is just trying to make up ways to make the numbers equal, which is fairly obvious.

There's obvious and there's obvious - this guy actually says "now, let's assume those numbers are actually 15 higher" at one point, with no attempt at justification.

And now, for the sake of the argument, let us just assume that everyone reading this post owes me £100. You can mail me cheques, money orders or cash, any of those is fine.

[chunderbunny]

And now, for the sake of the argument, let us just assume that everyone reading this post owes me £100. You can mail me cheques, money orders or cash, any of those is fine.

Aw man, not again!

[JQuartz]

Aw man, not again!

Don't worry. You can just assume you have banked $100 into Jake's account already. It's so good to be able to transform assumptions into reality without any justification...

[lordcloudx]

Aw man, not again!

Don't worry. You can just assume you have banked $100 into Jake's account already. It's so good to be able to transform assumptions into reality without any justification...

Not really. Not while Jake is around to confirm or deny actual payment.