Best Ren'py games?

[Tsundere Lightning]

I've personally enjoyed Ori Ochi Onoe, When I Rule The World, Elven Relations, and (yes) the Katawa Shoujo demo a great deal.

[Deviot]

Mirai imouto, Memo, Elven Relations (epic ), Garden Society, *Tying Threads, *Metropolitan Blues, Moonlight, Daemonophilia (for laughs), *Broken Memories, fuyu no tabi, Next Station, Tales of Lemma, *The present (no choices, but worth a read), The Cute, light and fluffy project and Lastly, Katawa Shoujo act 1

These are good enough to be recommended

[IceD]

Ori, Ochi, Onoe. For sure, one of the most well written titles ever made with Renpy. I really enjoyed reading it. Other than that I found the new version of Moonlight nice and soothing. I won't count Katawa Shoujo, because it's not even finished. It's good, but honestly too generic (which still won't stop me from playing it, when it comes out ) to be questioned as the best renpy title. Other than that, tfq - I had a few good moments of laughter reading this one, and in technical terms - it's very well made (both in temrs of art and programming).

I still admire those who have the will to bring their stuff, even if it lacks quality or proffesional touch, but to be honest it isn't the right way. I know some of the people do this just for fun but then, isn't this a little sad to spend so much time creating something of such a poor overall quality, when something better could be made with a little more effort? Isn't this a petty excuse for bringing their weak and shallow stuff over and lowering the overall quality of the scene? Isn't it better to find someone that will substitute with better art skills if we don't meet that certain level? Personally, I can stand weak art or terrible music (the lesser for this, music is really important in VN's - it builds the atmosphere) if the story is really good and absorbing, but there's a bigger problem if almost everything is a pain.

It's not that I blame creators for their lack in certain developement skills but for me, something's that's the best has to be like it; not only in words, but also in other fields (or at least, It has to meet those certain expectations). We need more high quality stuff, like the titles I mentioned above. I know propably right now I offended a lot of people here, but this is my personal opinion on this subject and I finally had to say it. Even if it takes time - take that time. Take it so the things you do have the possibility to mature untill they are going to be ready to venture into this world. Don't flood with weak stuff, do more quality stuff; join teams, look for good artists - it's all possible. And you won't have to throw even a buck into it. Trust me. Be responsible for the things you commit. Bring honor and fame to the scene, so it can develop and grow larger, and someday... who might even know?

[IxIoN]

Oh, so you're saying that masterpieces like Umineko no Naku Koro ni are shit because the art is BAD? I'm not protecting myself because my visual novel have a acceptable quality, but I'm protecting the people that makes a big effort in doing something good at least the story but didn't have the luck to find a good artist and didn't have a choice but rely on their own skills drawing, that is not so good, but still there is a effort. Don't say that EVERYONE in here that can't make a decent visual novel in presentation are lazy. Maybe if you just try out the visual novels that doesn't have sprites, because the story might be good. I won't deny that some people don't make a real effort, but not everyone is like that. A visual novel is made with heart not with publicity and moe like some people do. Excuse if I'm being rude saying that you're wrong with your way to think, but its just so wrong IMO.

[IceD]

Oh, so you're saying that masterpieces like Umineko no Naku Koro ni are shit because the art is BAD?

I'm talking only about this scene, not the indie scene or mainstream developers, and I'm not talking about japanese VN's at all. I'm talking about OELVN's. I've read Umineko and it would be insulting for me to say it's shit - it has just a distinctive art style, not the best art ever but nicely developed.

[...]protecting the people that makes a big effort in doing something good at least the story but didn't have the luck to find a good artist and didn't have a choice but rely on their own skills drawing, that is not so good, but still there is a effort.

Don't try to cover with such an excuse. We have this forum, so many people from which most are willing to lend a helping hand, and sometimes it's a hand of a striving professionalist, if not a good amateur. You can set for less but still make out with nice art. And we aren't only bound to this place - it was created to gather all of us, to make things easier but we can always look for help outside of it. We aren't only chained to this one place. Telling that someone didn't have the luck to find anyone good enough to make a decent artwork for the game is pathetic.

Don't say that EVERYONE in here that can't make a decent visual novel in presentation are lazy.

Yes they mostly are, because making a game, a VN is not only the internal work process. Sometimes you have to go outside, look for help, find some people to join the team. Beggining is always the hardest part. You have to really give all it takes, in all terms, not just work on your vn. Do research, improve, strive to be better. Nothing you make ever goes to waste, but that doesn't mean you have to go and share everything you make right from the start. Some things have to mature enough first to be presented and if you work with them and improve them, they might become beautiful one day. And there should be something, that has the name of a shame that suposedly should tell us when there are limits to things you can and cannot do at certain situations.

I won't deny that some people don't make a real effort, but not everyone is like that. A visual novel is made with heart not with publicity and moe like some people do.

And this is how it should be, but even so - heart still isn't everything, and even if it's made with heart it will still be crappy to other people. Don't let this thought mislead you. There is a time everyone that's starts doing this stuff should ask himself "Am I really doing this for public or am I doing this for myself?". It can be both, it should be. True artist does things for himself mostly, but on different level. And you have to give yourself into it, really. Even if it sounds painful, your work has to at least minimally appeal main audience. If it doesn't then what's the point of making it? I've seen stuff here that looks as it would be only created for our audience. I'm OK with it, as long as people that create it use it as a progress springoard (not talking about nanoreno) but If someone does it for this sole purpose... What's the point of making it? Isn't this just waisting your time? Why are you making this VN? Because you only loved to make one and see how it is? Really...

Excuse if I'm being rude saying that you're wrong with your way to think, but its just so wrong IMO.

No, you're propably right with most of the things I'm just sharing my personal opinion, and it didn't gave me peace for some time. Everyone - please, don't take everything I say to your heart's content, just use your common sense. I'm trying to point some things out into the public, and thought this would be a good time to think those things over. I'm just curious about different opinions on this subject. Other than that, I'm propably trying to let my frustration out in suposedly good manner

[IxIoN]

But dont say it, please. Some people, even if they are doing a good VN, can feel bad because of this. Mostly because they sometimes arent very confident about their work. Just let them continue and point out errors in a release you get to play. Like that we can become a very good VNs makers. And btw, and i dont see the difference between japanese VNs and english VNs. All of them can be good, the talent is not only in Japan. Thats because I really hate /jp/. A place where they think Japan is awesome but its not that awesome. Believe me I have been there :<

[papillon]

There is a time everyone that's starts doing this stuff should ask himself "Am I really doing this for public or am I doing this for myself?". It can be both, it should be. True artist does things for himself mostly, but on different level. And you have to give yourself into it, really. Even if it sounds painful, your work has to at least minimally appeal main audience. If it doesn't then what's the point of making it? I've seen stuff here that looks as it would be only created for our audience. I'm OK with it, as long as people that create it use it as a progress springoard (not talking about nanoreno) but If someone does it for this sole purpose... What's the point of making it? Isn't this just waisting your time? Why are you making this VN? Because you only loved to make one and see how it is? Really...

I find it hard to imagine your world in which it is such a terrible thing for people to do things because they enjoy them or because other people who are not you enjoy them, instead of solely to please you.

I'm not particularly interested in BxB games, and I know there are a number of people on this forum who are even less so, and a vast number of people outside this forum who absolutely hate them. It would be incredibly rude of me to state that no one should ever make BxB games just because I and some hypothetical mainstream audience will not be interested in them.

On some gamedev forums, occasional flamewars kick up where some kid insists that All Games Must Be 3D because "no one would ever buy a 2d game" - in complete opposition to the facts, when what they really mean is "I don't personally think 2d games are cool".

[IceD]

I find it hard to imagine your world in which it is such a terrible thing for people to do things because they enjoy them or because other people who are not you enjoy them, instead of solely to please you.

I'm not saying people should stop doing their stuff, I'm just encouraging them to take a step futher and try to make something with little more extra effort, on a bit more proffesional way, because if they won't ever try, they'll never see, nor make anything better.

I'm not particularly interested in BxB games, and I know there are a number of people on this forum who are even less so, and a vast number of people outside this forum who absolutely hate them. It would be incredibly rude of me to state that no one should ever make BxB games just because I and some hypothetical mainstream audience will not be interested in them.

Of course, you're right. But I'm not talking about that. The truth is, there's always an audience for everything, still - my point is we should make more quality stuff.

On some gamedev forums, occasional flamewars kick up where some kid insists that All Games Must Be 3D because "no one would ever buy a 2d game" - in complete opposition to the facts, when what they really mean is "I don't personally think 2d games are cool".

3D is a cheap and dirty excuse for people who don't have the guts to spent whole day working on a one scene/character pose in a traditional way

Some people, even if they are doing a good VN, can feel bad because of this. Mostly because they sometimes arent very confident about their work. Just let them continue and point out errors in a release you get to play. Like that we can become a very good VNs makers.

You have a point there, but isn't it better for us to point those mistakes out and help improve them right from the start, than letting them make the same ones over and over again? I didn't see a whole lot of really constructive criticism. I't just like the problem on DA, most people are pointing out there nowadays. People like to butter things up rather than be critical towards themselves and others.

And btw, and i dont see the difference between japanese VNs and english VNs. All of them can be good, the talent is not only in Japan. Thats because I really hate /jp/. A place where they think Japan is awesome but its not that awesome. Believe me I have been there :<

Unfortunately, there is. But that doesn't mean OELVN's are worse kind. They can be at least good if not better (and I'm tired with all this pointless japanese eroge that comes nowadays, for example).

And yes, Japan isn't that wonderful. It never was, to start with.

[filsduloup]

My favorite game is ''The Nettestadt Troll''

Is my opinion but thanks dafool !

[Headache]

Mine is TFQ. XDD It's really EPIC.

[azureXtwilight]

My favorite is elven relations for BXG and Re: Alistair for GXB. Also dream chasers. Loved the story.

[Asteru]

3D is a cheap and dirty excuse for people who don't have the guts to spent whole day working on a one scene/character pose in a traditional way

I feel a bit silly logging in just to say this when I normally lurk, but...
While there are many wonderful 2d artists out there, I both respect and admire people who have the patience to work with 3d from scratch. There are many technicalities that go into both creating a model (for which you need to have a concept of space and knowledge of the program you're working with. Nothing's done for you.), texturing it, and rigging it for posing or animation. Then, it needs to be rendered. Many of the best 3D artists spend a lot of time working with the lighting and shadows of their models, and consider how different effects can make it look better. In essence, I feel it is a lot more difficult than traditional drawing (although that presents its own difficulties, especially when you branch out into the different mediums of painting, i.e. watercolor versus oil painting, etc.) Not to mention, even 3D can look like crap the same way 2D can look like crap. They're both still art-forms that require time and effort to be put into them in order to create a beautiful color scheme, layout, and composition. It's the same process all artists go through (granted they're not BS-ing), just in different mediums.

Edit: On topic, I thought Angelic Orbs was pretty good.