How Acceptable is Rape in Games?

[Wintermoon]

I'm not really for or against rape simulation games (which is what I was referring to by the topic of this thread; sorry for not being clear) since they have nothing to do with me, but I don't know if they're really an "outlet" for lust.

Consider the ridiculously high incidence of child molestation among the Catholic Church. That's what happens when people repress their sexuality.

However, there have been studies on violent games, such as Grand Theft Auto, which includes murder, beating prostitutes, etc. Rather than providing a harmless outlet for violent behavior, studies indicate that games actually desensitized people, in particular young males, to violence, even glorifying/anesthetizing that behavior.

Desensitizing people isn't necessarily a bad thing. It lets people react calmly and rationally when they encounter actual violence instead of panicking. Is there any link between being desensitized to violence and committing actual acts of violence?

There have been a number of reported incidents where people snapped after playing video games and actually gone out and murdered people; to some degree, it might them a distorted sense of reality or affect their moral reasoning.

They tried their usual outlet. It wasn't enough. They went and did it for real. Would they still have done it for real if their games had contained more realistic depictions of violence?

[Lunethex]

No woman hates rape, they just use it as an emotional crutch when it happens. Sex is easily interrupted, despite how much everyone will disagree.

This is why rape is funny, because no woman can resist the pleasures of basic human instinct, unless, well, they're lesbians.

As long as a condom is used, nothing is wrong. I remember a trial back a few years where a rapist got off the hook because he had used a condom. Of course, they don't 100% shield you, but it prevents kids at the very least, which is what is the most important thing.

I'm speaking as a woman.

[LVUER]

I'm not really for or against rape simulation games (which is what I was referring to by the topic of this thread; sorry for not being clear) since they have nothing to do with me, but I don't know if they're really an "outlet" for lust. I don't know if there have been any studies on rape-based games (since they have limited availability in the United States). However, there have been studies on violent games, such as Grand Theft Auto, which includes murder, beating prostitutes, etc. Rather than providing a harmless outlet for violent behavior, studies indicate that games actually desensitized people, in particular young males, to violence, even glorifying/anesthetizing that behavior. There have been a number of reported incidents where people snapped after playing video games and actually gone out and murdered people; to some degree, it might them a distorted sense of reality or affect their moral reasoning.

From what I heard, those research only valid for those under age of 18 (or those who aren't adults enough). There's also another researched conducted on adults, and the result is violence in video games do very little (to no) changes to those people (I mean those adults).

However, there have been studies on violent games, such as Grand Theft Auto, which includes murder, beating prostitutes, etc. Rather than providing a harmless outlet for violent behavior, studies indicate that games actually desensitized people, in particular young males, to violence, even glorifying/anesthetizing that behavior.

Desensitizing people isn't necessarily a bad thing. It lets people react calmly and rationally when they encounter actual violence instead of panicking. Is there any link between being desensitized to violence and committing actual acts of violence?

There have been a number of reported incidents where people snapped after playing video games and actually gone out and murdered people; to some degree, it might them a distorted sense of reality or affect their moral reasoning.

They tried their usual outlet. It wasn't enough. They went and did it for real. Would they still have done it for real if their games had contained more realistic depictions of violence?

Indeed that playing too many violent games could change you. Not instantly, but rather because now violence is too common for you, your behavior could be very different from times before you play those games. I used to be scared easily but ever since I play horror game often (my first game is RE2), now not many could scare me... not even watching movies branded as scariest movie of the year, alone... in the dark room... in the middle of night... Now what if that's not horror, but violence.

But then again, those only applicable if you are still unable to decide your own right or wrong, or still unable to decide your own moral reasoning. In short, not adult enough?

[IonicMomo]

All right, well it looks like I'll be playing the devil's advocate here...sorry for the long post...skim if you must...xD

Desensitizing people isn't necessarily a bad thing. It lets people react calmly and rationally when they encounter actual violence instead of panicking. Is there any link between being desensitized to violence and committing actual acts of violence?

The glorifying violence, anesthetizing violence, making violence "cool," is a bad thing. However, jumping through burning buildings, shooting at gangs, stealing cars, etc. in a game is clearly locked in the realm of fantasy. Raping an underage girl on a subway platform is not so locked. Desensitization is an attitude where committing violent crime is acceptable, or "not a big deal." While there might be some exaggerations on the part of the media on the effect of video games on behavior, it is a fallacy to assume that video games do nothing, or that desensitization is calming (quite the opposite, it leads to aggressive and antisocial behavior). If you're interested in related psychological studies, I urge you to check out the link below.

They tried their usual outlet. It wasn't enough. They went and did it for real. Would they still have done it for real if their games had contained more realistic depictions of violence?

Answer: probably yes, and probably more so. Empirical studies (on both children and adults) have shown that over time, exposure to violence in video games leads to an increase in aggressive thoughts and an increase in aggressive affect/behavior. It also leads to physical arousal (i.e. activation of the parasympathetic nervous system: increased heart rate, dilation of the eyes, sweating, adrenalin) which is linked to the "fight or flight" mechanism. The common myth is that the effect of violence in video games is very small, or that it only affects already antisocial people. Untrue. It affects perfectly healthy, normal people too.

Like I said, most of these incidents are "snap" decisions, not premeditated acts of violence. They occur when the individual is in a certain, altered state of mind, sometimes due to the effect of playing a video game. These people see normal behavior from others as hostile, threatening, etc. and they react. It's not that they didn't "let out" their violence in the game...the game altered their frame of mind.

From what I heard, those research only valid for those under age of 18 (or those who aren't adults enough). There's also another researched conducted on adults, and the result is violence in video games do very little (to no) changes to those people (I mean those adults).

I suggest that anyone interested in a scientific perspective read this article from the APA (American Psychological Association), which clears up some of the "myths" about violence in video games. Some of these myths, among others, include:
1. Violence in video games affects young children more than young adults.
2. "Unrealistic" violence is safe for older people.
(Really, if no one gets anything else out of this post, please, please read this article and be aware that the effect of video games on behavior is not a fairy tale. It is real for most people. If you are someone that doesn't want your kids inhaling secondhand smoke, take similar precautions with video games and keep an eye on what they're doing.)

This story is a little old, but you can easily find more contemporary cases with the same premise. It offers an interesting look at sexual violence in Japan. Japan has what (Western) sociologists would call a "shame" culture, and this is part of the reason why, until recently, Japanese women would often avoid reporting rape, sexual assault, groping, and other sex-related crime to the police. 'Yoko Yoshida, a staff member at the Tokyo Rape Crisis Center, said the wink-and-nudge attitude is grounded in a popular culture that often depicts rape as an act of passion, not violence, and that women who resist don't really mean it.' No matter what you say about cultural differences, victimizing anyone (including women) is a human rights crime. This attitude is disgusting, dangerous and wrong. Fortunately, the "blame-the-victim" and "boys-will-be-boys" attitude is beginning to decline...

Here's another quote:
"Rape-themed videos account for about a fifth of the porno offerings at chain rental stores, with titles like "Idol Rape Crime File" ranking among the top five in weekly X-rated sales. Popular comic books and video games often depict rape fantasies where teenage girls, nurses and housewives willingly submit to rapes and other sex assaults from relatives, neighbors or even police. A 17-year-old high school student arrested in June for allegedly raping 31 women reportedly told police he was trying to re-enact scenes he saw in porno books and magazines."

This is one extreme case, and not everyone will behave the way this kid did. But it is also not the only case, just one of many disturbing examples. Would this kid have (allegedly) raped 31 women without access to sexual media that demonstrated how, and indoctrinated him with a belief that it was not a big deal? I don't know, it's impossible to say, but maybe not. What is unlikely is that the media in this case provided a healthy outlet for pent-up emotion. Yes, he is (nominally) a kid, not an adult. That doesn't mean that kids don't commit any crime, and it doesn't mean that kids don't have access to violence or 18+ media. Especially when games like RapeLay go viral. Then, anyone capable of moving a mouse can have access to that kind of media. And 18 is an arbitrary line to draw between child and adult anyway. Just because someone is 18 as opposed to 17 doesn't make that individual a fully well-developed, mentally stable and healthy adult. There are actually very few such adults in the world to begin with at all.

[LVUER]

OK, now that's scary... like I wrote before, I was scared easily before I played RE2 (a real-life proof). I was a child at that time (still in junior highschool though) and playing it really have a big impact on me. I guess I must be thankful that the game I played isn't a rape game.

Reading the article and looking at the way now... I think events described in Library War (Toshokan Sensou) could be happening in near-future.

[Maverynthia]

I despise rape games, it's bad enough that we already live in a rape culture, where rape is made fun of and the butt of jokes. Where women can't get justice because they are shamed into thinking they asked for it, where thinking like Lunethex exists and is the NORM for most of the internet. Especially places like online games and game forums. (Like Kotaku).

Games like this don't give people a "safe" out, games like this basically say it's OK. While people will site Halo and other FPS games as violent, at least the other people are shooting back and giving the game some form of agency. They are shooting you. It's already been proven and studied that playing games such as this make people desensitized to stuff like this, because our society is already built to think that rape is OK.
I've hard many a fratboy talk about how they are going to "pick up drunk chicks" basically they are "going out to rape", because they know they can get away with it. When a COURT ORDER has to be passed to make law enforcement test rape kits that have been building up for years. You know society is messed up.

Games like this don't make it safe, it makes it worse. Even coming up with a game like this proves society is that messed in the head. It's bad enough that even harem BxG games objectify women into "trophies", while some might say that GxB does the same thing, it's NOT the same since out society already makes women out to be objects.

[LVUER]

No woman hates rape, they just use it as an emotional crutch when it happens. Sex is easily interrupted, despite how much everyone will disagree.

This is why rape is funny, because no woman can resist the pleasures of basic human instinct, unless, well, they're lesbians.

As long as a condom is used, nothing is wrong. I remember a trial back a few years where a rapist got off the hook because he had used a condom. Of course, they don't 100% shield you, but it prevents kids at the very least, which is what is the most important thing.

I'm speaking as a woman.

You're speaking ONLY for some woman. In (some) western culture, and perhaps in Japan, virginity is actually considered a shame. So if you're still a virgin even after you're 17 years old, you should be shameful. Sex during highschool is a common thing... am I wrong?

But not all country/culture takes that way. At least in where I am now, virginity is something sacred. There's even a case where a husband divorce his wife (in their first night) when he knows she is not virgin anymore. Over-reacting? Perhaps yes, but completely understandable... This is also one of the reason why women don't want to sue when they were raped, since they don't want anyone else to know.

So being virgin (until marriage) is very very important. Hence, being raped is really hurting the girl, since she treasures it. And once raped, you couldn't be virgin anymore, no matter what you tried...

For me myself, I don't object with rape game, but I really detest rapist. Same with violent game, I don't mind with the game but really hate someone who only knows how to resort to violence...

[Wintermoon]

The glorifying violence, anesthetizing violence, making violence "cool," is a bad thing.

Games don't make violence cool. Human psychology makes violence cool. People respond positively to violent games because they like violence.

Answer: probably yes, and probably more so. Empirical studies (on both children and adults) have shown that over time, exposure to violence in video games leads to an increase in aggressive thoughts and an increase
in aggressive affect/behavior.

Every study on the subject that I have seen was flawed. Until you can produce a study that isn't flawed, all you have is unfounded asserstions.

Like I said, most of these incidents are "snap" decisions, not premeditated acts of violence. They occur when the individual is in a certain, altered state of mind, sometimes due to the effect of playing a video game.

Or due to driving a car. Or participating in a sport.

I suggest that anyone interested in a scientific perspective read this article from the APA (American Psychological Association), which clears up some of the "myths" about violence in video games.

More unfounded assertions. To the author's credit, he does provide references. To his own work. In non-hyperlink form. It's almost as if he doesn't want me to check the validity his studies.

This is one extreme case, and not everyone will behave the way this kid did. But it is also not the only case, just one of many disturbing examples. Would this kid have (allegedly) raped 31 women without access to sexual media that demonstrated how, and indoctrinated him with a belief that it was not a big deal? I don't know, it's impossible to say, but maybe not.

How many more kids would have raped 31 women if they did not have access to rape porn? I don't know, it's impossible to say, but maybe hundreds. (See what I did there?)

I do think that there is a problem with the way the Japanese media portrays rape, and I'm among the first to complain about gratuitous rape scenes in visual novels. I just don't think that going after fetishist porn is going to improve the situation in any way.

[J. Datie]

But not all country/culture takes that way. At least in where I am now, virginity is something sacred. There's even a case where a husband divorce his wife (in their first night) when he knows she is not virgin anymore. Over-reacting? Perhaps yes, but completely understandable...

I guess it's because I'm from a different culture and everything, but I don't get this at all. Is it really that important that he gets to have 1 (one) act of sexual intercourse with another virgin that he divorces the woman he (presumably) loves? In ten years is he really going to look at her and say "If only you had been an virgin that one time, I would've been able to get that promotion at work. Then we wouldn't have had to sell our first born."

This is also one of the reason why women don't want to sue when they were raped, since they don't want anyone else to know.

Is there a word that combines both "terrifying" and "disgusting"? Because I'd like to use it about now. I think this alone outweighs any possible benefits that viewing virginity as sacred could ever bring.

As for the study on violent video games, I'm wondering if they're also doing these studies with non-violent games. Like, to find out how much aggravation is coming from playing a violent game, and how much is coming from playing a game period. For a non-video game example, football/soccer isn't a particularly violent sport. But sometimes the people watching it can get a little out of hand.

[Lunethex]

ITT:

People who think there are still sacred things in today's world.

[LVUER]

See? That's why I said this is about difference in culture, meaning a whole different perspective and mindset. I'm completely understand (and it's understandable) if there's some people (or even all other people in this forum) who don't get the meaning of what I'm saying before.

Perhaps this is what we called "culture shock"?

Like I said, perhaps divorcing a wife just because she's not a virgin anymore could be over-reacting... after all it's just one of the extreme cases. But virginity is still an important thing in my culture... and I never forced my way of thinking to you guys either (who thinks virginity is not important).

[MaiMai]

Somehow, the only way to summarize my feelings on this discussion so far is to search through the reactionface database and come up with this:



On a more serious note:

I do think that there is a problem with the way the Japanese media portrays rape, and I'm among the first to complain about gratuitous rape scenes in visual novels. I just don't think that going after fetishist porn is going to improve the situation in any way.

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly, especially when I mentioned the adult otome games. Yes, it's adult there is going to be sex scenes and by god there probably is going to be rape, but... Yeah. I guess I could just say I feel such scenes are highly contrived, but I'd have to say more than that. Sleepy times call however

[Deviot]

uh huh, next thing you know they march in the streets carrying banners saying "Close down 4chan! Burn Guro-Chan! We care for pixels!"

[Lunethex]

uh huh, next thing you know they march in the streets carrying banners saying "Close down 4chan! Burn Guro-Chan! We care for pixels!"

Please don't turn this into a debate about women who look like teenagers(Lolita) being drawn in a sexual way and it being called Child Porn.

[Aurelia-Aurora]

I have mixed opinions about this.

While rape as a plot device is acceptable in most forms, in other forms it's not so acceptable. The woman's rights group even went against some rape and hentai games, including

RapeLay

, and on another note,

even wants to ban all H-games in America, even those with proper storyline and no rape

.

Though it's better to let out your fantasies on fantasy girls rather than real girls or boys because that would get you in jail...

Rape as a non-plot device, or "just for the lulz", is unacceptable in my opinion. Rape simulation games I have no opinion or comment on. Rape as a non-plot device is like promoting rape, there's no real reason to do it...

Just my $0.02.