*eden translation project gets slammed by minori

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ksotaku100
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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#16 Post by ksotaku100 » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:36 pm

Lunethex wrote:This just came up on RSS Feeds...

http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/04/2 ... tion-site/

Ahhhh I understand now.

The developers of a VN got pissed off that someone made a fan translation patch for their game, so the DEVELOPERS OF THE GAME go to VANDALIZE the fan's wiki and start threatening them.

That's pretty sad. Not to mention very racist.

How the heck did they even know this project exists?! How did they?! I am really, really ticked here!!! Now I can't even play *eden without learning a headache of Japanese!!! On the other hand, vandalization? Legal vandalization? A cease and desist letter could have done the job, not starting a surprise attack on a wiki!!! They simply just don't understand... They need to take their head out of their rear and try to understand the way we work.... Sure they were protecting their IP, but this way is just barbaric from a realistic POV... Its very obvious, they hate gaijin!!! Or it seems they hate gaijin, but by their actions so far, it seems like they want to turn eroge back into the times before the Meiji Constitution of 1893...

The reason I reference to that is because before that constitution, no foreign influences were allowed, no trading was allowed I think and this happened for like 200-300 Years...
Last edited by ksotaku100 on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#17 Post by Lunethex » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:19 pm

You guys know this could all be fucking fake right? This happens all the time in rom translation communities.

Think Crimson Echoes, a Chrono Trigger translation patch. CT is a dead series, but Square sends them a Cease & Desist letter ONE HOUR before release? Bull.

They never sent letters to the Mana 2 team, or the FF2,3, or 5 teams, or the guy who re-did FF6 to re-include all the removed elements.

This is very obviously bull and they just want to keep the whole thing to themselves. Of course, there is a chance it might not be, since Japanese are all very racist and they love to refuse Americans any of their games, even in the niche markets, but my money is on it being a farce by the translators.

Translators are all insane people and get bent out shape very easily if you burn their ego. They'll make up all sorts of libel just to make you the enemy.

"THE BIG BAD COMPANY ATTACKED US!! TOOK DOWN AND VANDALIZED THE SITE!!11"

The big problem with most translators is they're notoriously lazy and think that just because they know Japanese it elevates them far above everyone else on the internet, especially of their own countrymen. They think it makes them better than all those who don't speak it, or refuse to learn it.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#18 Post by Nanashiko » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:44 am

This is probably true being this wouldn't be the first thing Minori has done to raise some rage from the international fans. They also blocked their site from being seen outside of Japan.

It was done legally though I feel it was in rather bad taste. I am sure some letters, or emails to the project would have got the same result.
Sad this isn't going to be translated. I thought the demo of this game was insanely beautiful. I would have bought it, if there was going to be a translation someday.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#19 Post by IceD » Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:17 am

You know... I totally agree with Minori, even if the way they did it this time wasn't done in a subtle manner. Put yourselves in their place. There was a moral war going on not so long ago beetwen us - the western "puritan" world and them. It was the main reason why they blocked their site from foreign access. They have their own moral view on this situation. They've propably even could see it as a direct attack against their work and decided to protect it, at all costs. To start with, their novels weren't even meant to be read by us, they are targeted at their native japanese audience, and since our marketplace is more of a pain in the ass than a potential outlet, they aren't willing to change their resolution. They propably don't even care about us, at all. Either way, I'm glad to see they still wan't to cooperate, despite all of this and they want to do it on a fully legal ground.

It sad that we won't be able to see this excelent novel, but it's just the way things are. I don't think NNL will take it when TLwiki left; they're bound to do stuff in a legal way, too. Let's just hope the EF will get it's final release.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#20 Post by Samu-kun » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:09 am

You believe a thing printed on Sankaku Complex???? o_O;

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#21 Post by IceD » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:32 am

BTW...
Lunethex wrote: Translators are all insane people and get bent out shape very easily if you burn their ego. They'll make up all sorts of libel just to make you the enemy.

"THE BIG BAD COMPANY ATTACKED US!! TOOK DOWN AND VANDALIZED THE SITE!!11"

The big problem with most translators is they're notoriously lazy and think that just because they know Japanese it elevates them far above everyone else on the internet, especially of their own countrymen. They think it makes them better than all those who don't speak it, or refuse to learn it.
I don't see a point here. Those translators are insane people, yes indeed. But you got it all wrong. They are insane because they spent whole loads of precious time working on something that mostly shouldn't ever see the light of a day in our western world. They're devoting all the spare time they can get. Sometimes, they're going all-nighters. It's a hard work because japananese isn't an easy language to understand. And they won't earn anything from this, because they are doing it for free. Bah - they are even investing their own money to run the required sites/ftp to host the translation patches. Talking about them being lazy... They might be sometimes lazy. But they are doing this, and they do it from their own free wills. They are (mostly) doing this for fun, self-developement and personal pleasure. No one forces them to do so.

Seeing them as they are the ones responsible for all the bad would be a total madness. Of course - there might be exceptions, but please - think about before writing stuff like this. We should be grateful for every each mad person who fells an urge to translate visual novels for us.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#22 Post by Jake » Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:45 am

Lunethex wrote: This is very obviously bull and they just want to keep the whole thing to themselves.
Ok, so let me get this straight: a bunch of people who already speak Japanese well enough to translate a game - and thus could quite happily just play the game in question untranslated - put in months of work translating it on an open wiki for no personal gain, only to yank it at the last minute and then make illegal false claims of copyright under penalty of perjury because they want to keep the translation to themselves even though they didn't need it in the first place?

Yeah, that's totally more plausible than a company being a bit heavy-handed in protecting its IP.

I could believe that it could be a random third-party troll having a laugh at the translators' expense, but the translators themselves wasting months of their time just to piss off Internet people? Doesn't sound plausible at all, to me.
luminarious wrote:xenophobic
ksotaku100 wrote:Its very obvious, they hate gaijin!!! Or it seems they hate gaijin, but by their actions so far, it seems like they want to turn eroge back into the times before the Meiji Constitution of 1893...
Lunethex wrote: Japanese are all very racist and they love to refuse Americans any of their games
I hope you guys realise that these comments come across as far more xenophobic/racist than anything I've seen from Minori in this incident. You're just assuming without question that they're doing it because they hate foreigners and not considering any other reason becuase you've already formed your impression of this particular bunch of foreigners, which is... well, bigotry.

As IceD also noted - the Japanese adult game industry has been under assault by puritannical moral crusaders from the US and other countries recently, there have been all sorts of recriminations flying about, and it seems pretty plausible to me that Minori more than likely just want to avoid being Fox News' next punching bag. Maybe they could have been a bit more professional about contacting the TLWiki, but seriously - "barbaric"? That's not just a little over the top.
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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#23 Post by Wintermoon » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:15 am

Call me culturally insensitive if you will, but I don't see the moral difference between Minori blocking non-Japanese ip addresses from their website and a restaurant refusing to serve people because of their skin color. "Not meant to be read by us"? Once you publish something, it's public, and you no longer have a say in who gets to read it.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#24 Post by Lunethex » Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:22 am

Jake wrote:
Lunethex wrote: This is very obviously bull and they just want to keep the whole thing to themselves.
Ok, so let me get this straight: a bunch of people who already speak Japanese well enough to translate a game - and thus could quite happily just play the game in question untranslated - put in months of work translating it on an open wiki for no personal gain, only to yank it at the last minute and then make illegal false claims of copyright under penalty of perjury because they want to keep the translation to themselves even though they didn't need it in the first place?

Yeah, that's totally more plausible than a company being a bit heavy-handed in protecting its IP.

I could believe that it could be a random third-party troll having a laugh at the translators' expense, but the translators themselves wasting months of their time just to piss off Internet people? Doesn't sound plausible at all, to me.
You don't understand, Jake. I don't know if you've ever actually looked at the translation community before, but this wouldn't be far from the truth.

For one, there is a game called "Soul Hackers", which a friend and I have always wanted to play, but for the past, what, 5 years the translators have done nothing but beg for donations and not even try to finish it.

Trust me, this is how it works. Nobody who is a translator for any project does so because they are kind hearted, they do it because they want internet fame, and if you don't provide that for them, they get bent. They want your attention because they can speak a language that you can't, they think it makes them superior. I honestly cannot give you any example without it sounding offensive, so I won't.

About the Japanese comment, well, it mostly stems from their video gaming industry and how they intentionally censor, rip out content, and screw us when we don't them. It's like the current situation with Namco(And a past situation where we got a mislabeled game.)

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#25 Post by Adorya » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:22 am

They want your attention because they can speak a language that you can't, they think it makes them superior.
You are generalizing very much. Of course there are some who are like that, but if there are, it's because a lot of people are too lazy to learn moontalk and just moan on the internet for someone to translate for them.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#26 Post by LVUER » Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:42 am

How about people who doing subs in internet. They are translator too right? And as far as I remember, they're not anything like you described at all.
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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#27 Post by Wintermoon » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:12 am

Lunethex wrote:For one, there is a game called "Soul Hackers", which a friend and I have always wanted to play, but for the past, what, 5 years the translators have done nothing but beg for donations and not even try to finish it.

Trust me, this is how it works. Nobody who is a translator for any project does so because they are kind hearted, they do it because they want internet fame, and if you don't provide that for them, they get bent. They want your attention because they can speak a language that you can't, they think it makes them superior. I honestly cannot give you any example without it sounding offensive, so I won't.
I think you are seriously overvaluing your own attention. Internet fame is dirt cheap compared to the effort that goes into translating a visual novel.

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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#28 Post by Jake » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:33 am

Wintermoon wrote:Call me culturally insensitive if you will, but I don't see the moral difference between Minori blocking non-Japanese ip addresses from their website and a restaurant refusing to serve people because of their skin color.
I don't think it's a case of being culturally-insensitive, but I don't think they're necessarily the same at all, and it does everyone involved a disservice to assume that they are. In terms of something like racism and discrimination, the intent is the important thing. A restauranteur who turns a bunch of black guys away just because they're black is being racist, and sure, that's not excusable. But a restauranteur who turns away a bunch of black guys because he's not open, because they're not wearing shirts or because he doesn't have any tables free this evening isn't doing anything wrong at all - he's not turning them away because they're black, he's turning them away and coincidentally they're also black. If a bunch of aliens turned up and he's worried that he might feed them something that kills them and cause a major interplanetary incident, is that racism or self-preservation?

If Minori are intentionally trying to stop their products getting into the hands of Westerners - if they're closing their website to non-Japanese IP addresses because they think non-Japanese people are inferior, and they're closing down translation projects because they don't want Americans playing their games, then sure, it's no better than a restaurant not serving people because of their skin colour. But if they're telling the truth when they say that they'd be happy to entertain licensing and publication deals with Western companies if those companies would submit the games to the ESRB or other relevant ratings board, then this obviously isn't the case, and it's disingenuous and unconstructive to try and paint it like that. Do you believe that - if a caucasian went to Minori's hypothetical self-run shop and tried to a buy a VN, asking in perfect Japanese, they would automatically refuse the sale just because he's caucasian? Frankly, we hear this "Japanese people hate westerners and that's why they deny us their cool stuff" line over and over again, but lots of Japanese companies do get into licensing and publication deals and sell their things to Westerners, so it's obviously not a barrier so often as people like to believe.


If there were an American company which had a website which they had to pay the bandwidth costs for, who sold products which they know only get shipped to American distributors due to demand, and they subsidise their site with advertisements aimed at Americans, would it be racist or no morally different from refusing restaurant service based on skin colour for that website to turn away people without American IP addresses? Their advertisers probably aren't going to pay them for impressions to people in Taiwan, no matter how funny or kitschy the Taiwanese think the video ads are, so the American company is losing money serving that website to Taiwanese people. Or Brits, or Germans, or Japanese. A small minority of those people might have a real interest in going out of their way to import the product, but in the end it's a negligible part of the company's revenue.

If Disney closed down an unofficial Japanese fan translation site, would anyone in the West assume it was just because they didn't like Japanese people and didn't want them to enjoy Disney movies?

Wintermoon wrote: I think you are seriously overvaluing your own attention. Internet fame is dirt cheap compared to the effort that goes into translating a visual novel.
Exactly. Maybe people start translation projects because they want to be recognised as doing something, and maybe some of them look down on people who don't speak Japanese themselves, but seriously, it's an amazingly convoluted and time-consuming length to go to just to annoy some Internet VN fans, it's hardly plausible.
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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#29 Post by PyTom » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:39 am

Jake wrote:Fox News' next punching bag
http://www.foxnews.com/search-results/search?q=rapelay
http://www.cnn.com/search/?query=rapela ... Type=mixed

I'd dare say that it's way more CNN's punching bag than Fox's. Fox has been syndicating wire stories from the AP and AFP organizations, while CNN is actually writing articles with titles like: "Why would 'RapeLay' thrive in Japan?" In general, the current criticism of eroge has been from left-wing organizations.
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Re: *eden translation project gets slammed by minori

#30 Post by Samu-kun » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02 am

CNN's not left wing (and has journalistic standards that aren't that much higher than Fox's anyways)

If I were to rank news outlets, then Aljazeera would be the Gonzo of news, Fox News the Studio DEEN, and CNN the XEBEC, respectively.

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