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[Sin]

I still don't think it's good advice to direct people towards QA as an entry point to the gaming industry.
The sure way to get a job is to develop a sought-after talent, whether that is programming or art or whatever.

[Topagae]

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[Sin]

Sure. Again, I live in Sweden and the competition isn't as high here when it comes to talent. I've worked in Singapore too but I think the same applies there.
I can see schmoozing being a perfectly valid tactic in a larger country like USA.

[Topagae]

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[Jake]

The sure way to get a job is to develop a sought-after talent, whether that is programming or art or whatever.

This. If you want a job at the place I work, it's pretty much a case of knowing your stuff and turning up for an interview whenever we're hiring. From what I hear from friends and acquaintances in games development (in the real games industry!) the only difference is that their entry-level programming job requirements are more demanding than our entry-level programming job requirements. They'd want to see stuff you've programmed yourself, and if you want to have a more-secure job and an easier time getting hired then you specialise, preferably in something complex or boring that nobody else can/wants to do - same as everywhere else.



Contrary to whatever Topagae's persecution complex tells him, I wasn't making fun of him at all (if I was, I'd have laughed at working for Zynga, not anything to do with EA); but if being in QA was useful for getting a job in development, it's still not much use if you have to start again from QA at the next company you apply to. (And I've looked at a fair number of job postings in games myself; the running theme is "skills".)

As far as I can tell, 'paying your dues' and working your way up from the ground floor is generally speaking a myth, in pretty much any sector. If you want a better job then train yourself, improve yourself and most importantly find some way to prove to potential employers that you have the skills that you claim you have.

[Spiky Caterpillar]

Yes, they're not RELYING on unpaid labor, they're taking advantage of it. Google some news, companies have been slashing salaries WAY out of proportion with the recession for example because they know people are too scared to rebel, they know they probably can't get a job elsewhere. In short, corporations are using a situation to their advantage to make more money. Not really surprising is it?

In retrospect 'relying' was a bit too strong a word (especially since it wouldn't be stable - if they're essential, they have very good leverage if they go on strike)... so, was the answer to my question 'jobs' or 'unpaid internships'?

"That sort of company" == Just about every big company on the planet.

Bay area tech companies aren't necessarily representative of worldwide practices. Hell, the ones that get noticed most might not even be representative of LOCAL tech industry practice - 'CEO lays off workers, uses treasury and last month's payroll to have slaves build solid gold swimming pool on a tropical island without extradition treaties' is Interesting News, 'CEO shuffles papers in exchange for lots of money, writes a boring memo about synergising our core competencies to optimize Q3 profitability, workers receive paycheck on schedule' is not going to make much of a headline - though I do get the impression that our local industry has more of the former than the world average.

[Topagae]

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[Spiky Caterpillar]

@Spiky
Haha, sorry. It answers that on the site. They're full time paid positions. I think testers get between 15-20/hour and people with degrees get between 30-50/hour depending on degree/job. If you're interested in either PM me.

Nah, I was just vaguely curious as to the going rate for minions.

You're right. I'm a little cynical, my experiences are taken from a lot of discussion with many powerful people that are very knowledgeable about these things. Perhaps there are many companies that don't make headlines that are like what you mentioned, but I haven't seen very many.

I'm quite cynical, but it's tempered by paranoia and mistrust. Exploitative corps get a major benefit from spreading the meme that everywhere is Just Like Them, and less exploitative corps *also* get a benefit from this belief - if my minions think that most employers require a sixty-hour work week and pay three quarters of their salary in stocks*, then a salary that's a full 50% cash and a work week that's only fifty hours looks a lot nicer than if the minions think that 50% cash and 50 hours is average.

* IMO, stock in lieu of cash is usually a mug's game.

[Topagae]

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[DaFool]

The industry is moving towards project-based just like Hollywood. The problem with Hollywood is despite shedding in-house talent that was common in the last century, they still spend too much money making derivative works.

I think the indie way is the way to go. Rather than bickering among ourselves we must band together (etc etc insert hi-falutin sappy speech etc etc).

Indies can help each other by either adapting the dev house stance or the publisher stance. A dev house indie can be a loose group of individuals brought together by a particular project, i.e. contractuals. They shouldn't need to worry about crunch time and overworking themselves if they adopt a milestone-based payment method. That way they will have time to refine and polish their work.

A publisher type indie is a more established company, with access to devkits from major corporations. They need a constant stream of revenue to pay for overhead and licensing costs, so they may sometimes need to put their own projects on the backburner if commissioned work pays the bills better. A constant output of product is also important for them to stay on the radar.

I want to be the first type of indie so it is crucial to find reliable and trustworthy publisher type indies. And that is why there are all these business plans about streaming services, direct download services, Steam-like services. As well as native conversion to Iphone OS, Android, and the holy grails... PSP and NDS.

I mean, if anyone will ever come to these forums and say "Hi, I have an official PSP2 / N3DS devkit, but I don't have many games, I am looking for something to port... it won't cost you more than your car payments (I hope)." When that day comes I will know I'm in heaven.

[Topagae]

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[LVUER]

Hey, that's sounds like a good idea. That way we could just concentrate making games and don't have to worry about how to publish it.

[Topagae]

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[Topagae]

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[Altsyph]

Is the post free to continue? ^^

Well... after reading your first post I was like "Wow". Around 10 years old I wanted to be a game's designer. And here I am, still holding that dreamy position. I came here exactly to make a VN, and I want to be somehow the "head" of a game's developer (the director?), but I'm a little sad as my dream of working in the hour and making a good money at the same time is broken. I was like "hey, these developers can make a good money!" and etc. here (PS: I'm brazilian. Minimum paid money [AKA salary] is around $300), and I was like "I'll go learn these things, start as a programmer, make my way into other areas and at last make the directors chair. Mwahaha". Somehow, after reading this, I feel strange. But maybe making the directors chair isn't a bad thing, so I think I won't give up. At least not now.
Yeah, I don't have anyone to make my way into game's industry, I don't have any type of experience. Pros, i'm young and I'll be entering university (computer's science) this year. I alredy known english and I'm... a... little... thinking on going japanese (now scared. Seriously scared).

Talking about payment, as long as I get enough to live and buy a house after some work, It's ok for me. *newbie question* is that too much?

~~~

Going back to game's industry, is it really hard to get a nice job? I mean, I'm starting with university and I'm really lost in game's industry. The fact is that I don't know how to start, though making university I thought I was going to know a lot of people and make my way into it.