The Dating Sim / VN global survey!

[LordShiranai]

If what you're aiming for is EVNs being sold at "AAA" retail cost, then yes, there's going to need to be some special effort to push that. But definitions of "really making it" vary a lot.

I do not foresee this being plausible. Even if you got Hollywood celebrities doing the voices of characters, I doubt you could sell a straight VN for 50-60 USD retail in the English speaking world. I could be wrong, but I think most people see the "indy game" level of 5-20 USD as more realistic price point.

[papillon]

... Which is already being done, without needing some amazing breakthrough.

Anyway, the people who port over Japanese VNs sell them at USD 30-60 pricepoints to the english market, and they do sell. Just not in vast numbers.

[kinougames]

... All people in existence who aren't already either torrenting or importing Japanese games are fairly broke?

My point there was that one might wish to consider audiences who are not hardcore japanophiles.

I don't know where I said "all people in existence." But considering Japanophiles make up the vast majority of sales of ANY VNs, Japanese or otherwise, in the West, it's logical to cater to them, too. I think it's a bad idea, in every case, to ignore the given buyer market while on a commercial venture. One of the hugest problems with EVNs is that it has to literally battle with other anime-related interests that cost money. Ignore the torrenters, they'll never buy, I agree with that. That leaves you with people who have money to spend and people who want to spend money but can't reasonably spend a decent amount.

Like you said, if people can afford the games out of Japan, they buy those, and usually someone puts out even a crappy English patch of a game they can use to understand it. Those games cost more; Japanese games in general go for more in yen than in dollars. (Average price of a popular old GBA game in Japan was like 43+ USD and I've never seen any Nintendo handhelds, even the later generations, go for more than $39.99.) Plus imports, you're looking at $75+ dollars for a new game.

It is not impossible to make a game that Japanophiles will love. Expensive, yes, but as I mentioned, I think the quality tends to be better out of Japan for less money because of the culture. (Namely, people will work for their companies for no pay if the company is doing badly, instilling a massive sense of company pride in a lot of workers, so it is probably much easier to get a group of your art school buddies together to work hard and all make money together. At least, this is what I gleaned in my dealings with the Japanese VN promoters/creators.)

Basically, until the quality of EVNs matches those of JVNs, even yes, considering how expensive this is, the market will never take off. I'm not saying that everyone needs to run and go spend 100K on an EVN, but I think that's the most realistic expectation to make as far as the market.

If what you're aiming for is EVNs being sold at "AAA" retail cost, then yes, there's going to need to be some special effort to push that. But definitions of "really making it" vary a lot.

Yes, this is what I am referring to.

I do not foresee this being plausible. Even if you got Hollywood celebrities doing the voices of characters, I doubt you could sell a straight VN for 50-60 USD retail in the English speaking world. I could be wrong, but I think most people see the "indy game" level of 5-20 USD as more realistic price point.

Well, in the case that you can afford Hollywood actors, I wouldn't even be calling that company an indie, and why would you attach a stigma to your game by screaming HEY WE'RE AN INDIE if you think people will refuse to pay more than 5-20?

Just show up with great work, and let people decide for themselves if your price is worth it.

... Which is already being done, without needing some amazing breakthrough.

Anyway, the people who port over Japanese VNs sell them at USD 30-60 pricepoints to the english market, and they do sell. Just not in vast numbers.

I'm not 100% sure of what your first statement is referring to. Are you saying that there are EVNs that sell at that price already...or...?

I do agree that ported JVNs have easily sold for 30-40 dollars. I haven't seen any go over 45, admittedly, but considering the average Japanese cost and the fact that games in general in America sell for less, I wouldn't consider it a problem.

[papillon]

I'm not 100% sure of what your first statement is referring to. Are you saying that there are EVNs that sell at that price already...or...?

Sorry, that was with regard to "selling EVNs for 5-20 dollars". People already do, rather obviously, and sustain businesses with it. This doesn't need a massive breakthrough in order to occur.

I do agree that ported JVNs have easily sold for 30-40 dollars. I haven't seen any go over 45, admittedly, but considering the average Japanese cost and the fact that games in general in America sell for less, I wouldn't consider it a problem.

Mangagamer's crop appears to sell for about $50 depending on the current value of the euro. ($65 for Suika and Da Capo.) Most of the other translated games seem to be settling around $30-40 now, although I believe they were higher priced previously but I'm not sure.

If you could match the quality of the Japanese games AND duplicate their marketing, you could probably sell to that market for the same price. To the best of my knowledge, though, they don't move very large numbers of games - I've heard estimates of a few thousand. However, sales figures are hard numbers to come by and I could be very wrong.

[Topagae]

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[kinougames]

@Kinou
Hurts head. Kinou, could you just put Is:(WhoeverIactuallyAm) so we know who we're actually talking to of your five people? It's like talking to that guy in He-man who constantly switches heads ;3. Hell you might always be one person and I'm just imagining it because ya'll said you share accounts. Either way saying who you actually are would solve the problem X_x. Or getting separate accounts or something.

I don't believe anything I've said is particularly hard to understand.

[Topagae]

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[kinougames]

Sorry, that was with regard to "selling EVNs for 5-20 dollars". People already do, rather obviously, and sustain businesses with it. This doesn't need a massive breakthrough in order to occur.

Oh, I do know that people sell their games for this money and keep their businesses. The proof is in the pudding right here.

Mangagamer's crop appears to sell for about $50 depending on the current value of the euro. ($65 for Suika and Da Capo.) Most of the other translated games seem to be settling around $30-40 now, although I believe they were higher priced previously but I'm not sure.

If you could match the quality of the Japanese games AND duplicate their marketing, you could probably sell to that market for the same price. To the best of my knowledge, though, they don't move very large numbers of games - I've heard estimates of a few thousand. However, sales figures are hard numbers to come by and I could be very wrong.

Didn't Mangagamer also mention that they were having a massive amount of trouble with torrenters?

I can tell you for sure that in general, games sell for more as per yen to dollar in Japan than here. I went to Japan and wanted to buy a Pokemon game for a handheld only to find it was like 5000yen, no mailing or import costs.

I wouldn't expect to sell more than 5K-ish, but if you consider the way the games are made, which can end up being very cheap, selling a game that probably cost them $4000 (mostly gone toward VAs, I wager) at about $45 a piece and selling a few thousand? S'damn good.

Just saying "I" when you're in fact, five people (According to "You"), and we have no idea which "I" or "Me" or whose opinion it is, or whose talking, or who to assign any sort of responsibility for words, is confusing. Who am I talking to right now? If I have a question, whose actually answering? If you do anything at all, whose responsible? I guess it's not so confusing if it's just one out of five of you who always does the talking, but "You" seemed to imply that was not the case.

I consider the group responsible for anything any of us does, since we are under one name, and that makes the most sense to do. It would make sense that you do the same. If you have a question, note us and the person answering will personally sign off at the end. At any rate, since the issues before, only one person has been using this account, and that is myself.

[Topagae]

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[kinougames]

@Kinou
I'm not a group. This account is a personal, one person account, so I dunno what you're talking about me "Doing the same". Anywho I've never seen you guys personally sign off any different, I appreciate ya'll doing it in the future though. And when you say "Myself" you mean... Who exactly? If only one person has been using the account, why would you tell us that five of you use it? I suppose it's not that big a deal though if you mark the user after signing off in the future though.

Oi. I meant that you should assume that we are one entity and treat us as one entity.

We've only signed off differently in notes.

I just said that since the issue with you, only one person has been using the account. Never after that, anywhere, have I said that there is more than one person using this account. Only one person will continue to use this account.

Please read more carefully. I assume you don't have a question.

[papillon]

I wouldn't expect to sell more than 5K-ish, but if you consider the way the games are made, which can end up being very cheap, selling a game that probably cost them $4000 (mostly gone toward VAs, I wager) at about $45 a piece and selling a few thousand? S'damn good.

Cheap to make? They may not cost the millions that some console games cost, but they're certainly not costing only a few thousand.

On the English side of things, I know they generally have to pay an upfront fee to the company for the license rights (and it's going to be a lot more than a few thousand). I don't know if they do royalty share on top of that.

Or were you talking about the Pokemon games there? I may have lost track.

[kinougames]

I wouldn't expect to sell more than 5K-ish, but if you consider the way the games are made, which can end up being very cheap, selling a game that probably cost them $4000 (mostly gone toward VAs, I wager) at about $45 a piece and selling a few thousand? S'damn good.

Cheap to make? They may not cost the millions that some console games cost, but they're certainly not costing only a few thousand.

On the English side of things, I know they generally have to pay an upfront fee to the company for the license rights (and it's going to be a lot more than a few thousand). I don't know if they do royalty share on top of that.

Or were you talking about the Pokemon games there? I may have lost track.

Whoopsie. I meant that because of the company pride aspect that Japanese people tend to hold, they're more likely to work harder for less, meaning cheaper outright monetary costs, which meaning larger eventual profits.

And yes, I do know that games licensed means extra money for the licensing company, but I meant indie VNs, in Japan, and why they would cost less for higher quality.

The Pokemon games cost so much because Japanese people will buy them for that much. In America, they won't, at least not for a handheld. PS2 games over there were like $65 as opposed to the average $50 here in America.

[Topagae]

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[kinougames]

We should assume and treat you as one entity. That is, you're a group of people, but wish to be treated as one. Like a corporation, cool. You've signed off on different notes. Implying, more then one of you has signed off on this account.

VERY next line: Only one person has been using this account. Wait.

Line 1: We signed off with different notes.
Line 2: Only one person has ever used this account.

Seriously? Those directly contradict one another. One line says the account has been used by more then one person. The next directly contradicting by saying it has only ever been used by one. Now I'm more confused. Who are you? (Is the question I keep trying to get answered)

Since the issue with you no one but myself has been using this account

[Topagae]

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