What kind of world do you like for your second world?

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Chrizine
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#31 Post by Chrizine » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:53 pm

Teleporting would definitely have to be possible in my world. (Yeah, I'll admit I'm a lazy person ;-) But it will also save time which can be invested into nice VNs ;-))
A slower time would also be nice - just to have more of your life (Is that possible, according to the rules?)
So, I guess I'm stuck with some kind of fantasy or high technical world then - I think I prefer a fantasy world with a lot of magic in the end... I always wanted to be able to perform magic (I had a lot of these trick sets to be a show wizzard as a child).
So, yeah, fantasy. But not too many monsters, please... Though it would be fun to hunt down monsters, I don't like the risk of dying before I want to die.
Can I have both fantasy/magic and peace?
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#32 Post by Elenakiara » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:01 am

Chrizine wrote:Teleporting would definitely have to be possible in my world. (Yeah, I'll admit I'm a lazy person ;-) But it will also save time which can be invested into nice VNs ;-))
A slower time would also be nice - just to have more of your life (Is that possible, according to the rules?)
So, I guess I'm stuck with some kind of fantasy or high technical world then - I think I prefer a fantasy world with a lot of magic in the end... I always wanted to be able to perform magic (I had a lot of these trick sets to be a show wizzard as a child).
So, yeah, fantasy. But not too many monsters, please... Though it would be fun to hunt down monsters, I don't like the risk of dying before I want to die.
Can I have both fantasy/magic and peace?
I think it would be possible! :O For example, there would be peace, buuut there would be a darker location that pretty much doesn't hurt anyone unless you come into their realm and try to get something back that got stolen before? xD But the stealing would be harmless, so there wouldn't be that threat on normal citazens. Only that it may annoy some people when something they liked would be taken away?
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#33 Post by Jo'ogn » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:34 pm

A world where ppl have been cured of the greed for money and the fear of lack of money, for money won't exist.

Ppl would run this world in co-operation rather than competition. They would focus on the really fun and creative things (at least those who wish to do so). Innovation would explode as no patents could be locked away or being exploited. Usage of resources would drop tremendously, simply because there would be no need to flood the markets with pointless products (in hope to dominate any random market segment).

Ppl would move out of cities, because the offer for services do not depend anymore on making enough profits. It would be merely a matter of having the right ppl around in any given area, who are willing to operate productions or run (entertainment) facilities. When all is said and done ppl would only have to seriously work a day each week to make sure the necessities (food, water, cleaning, electricity...) are provided for everyone.

Ppl would join in task forces, designing all kinds of stuff ppl really want (as opposed to what's creates enough profit for a company, ignoring the customers needs). Be it more automation, alternative energy resources, clothes, games, software, hardware, furniture - you name it. Quality would raise automagically for there would be no need to compromise a product only to make it more profitable.

As there is no need for a tied down employment anymore, ppl could travel the country/world and offer their abilites anywhere they want to. information, knowlede and education would be free available - given that ppl are willing to share and enjoy.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#34 Post by Chrizine » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:37 pm

Wow, I really like Jo'ogn's vision too... Though there automatically arises the question how that could be possible, since if money doesn't exist, people would probably start dealing in information and skill, right? And then they would try to keep their ideas a secret again, to use it for this...
But hey, since it's some kind of other world we are certainly allowed to dream, right? Maybe it would be magically possible :-)
As you already said, people would have to be cured of any greed (not only for money i think, since even without money, but with exchange trade people can be greedy and destroy the harmony of this world).
So, I like this world :-)
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#35 Post by Jo'ogn » Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:27 pm

@Chrizine - this concept needs ppl to have the ability to envision the consequences if money is completely removed from the system, or society. Ppl are so focussed on money in this world that it has become such an integral part of their lives that they can barely perceive any alternatives of living. I consider my concept nothing but common sense. It's like a chain reaction...

There would be no need to 'deal' with 'ideas'. Most ppl would gladly contribute their ideas, because it will be for their own good and they will need help to have them turned into reality. e.g. Like we rely on a PyTom programming Ren'Py, as he relies in turn on our feedback and happiness to creatively use it to entertain, yet more ppl.

One thing I didn't point out in my vision is, that everything will be available for free. There won't be shops anymore, but 'warehouses'. Ppl still have to 'work' like today, but in considerable smaller amounts (less than a day per week would be necessary). Factories will be still operated like today, but no longer for the sake of making profit, but if the community has a need for a factory's prodcuts it will be operated by more automation and 'quasi-volunteering-employees'. When all is said and done a lot of work in this world does not need qualification to be done. A simple training on the job can do.

Furthermore there will be a lot of ppl available to share all the necessary work amongst them. First anyone once invovled with money jobs (clerks, insurances, banking, taxes, fees, fines) would be free to do sth more sensible and productive. Older ppl can (and still wish to) work too. Many companies do not employ ppl because of the costs. However in my vision there are no 'costs' anymore. So instead of running shifts and overhours, many ppl would share that 'work' amongst themselves. In turn they will gain greater quality of living with all that struggle - any of them.

Ppl could share cars. There won't be any (forced) need to commute anymore. A family doesn't need to buy a car. They can take one from the community for the few moments they need it. Means, less need for petrol, less traffic, less noise, less pollution, less waste of resources. And what's more products can be produced with way extended longevity, durability and quality. Which in turn again reduces the need of over-producing, saving resources.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#36 Post by lordcloudx » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:39 pm

Jo'ogn, I really like your vision and I'm interested in knowing more about it, so I have a few questions, if you don't mind:

What about the peacekeeping force? Would there be a need for one? I think that an effective peacekeeping force would be necessary to keep the occasional deviant from wreaking havoc on normal society.

Also, on that note, what about a system of governance? - Or at least something that keeps balance and order in everything. For example, if everyone is free to pursue any career path they want, what would happen if society produced nothing but artists with no interest in performing non-creative tasks?
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#37 Post by LVUER » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:36 am

Wow... the thread suddenly become so serious when I was looking at the other way ^_^

That's a nice concept... though (I think) it sounds like the "ideal" socialism. If the money is out of equation, then there will be no sense of accomplishment or competition for every individual. There must be some kind of reward for people to have do something. Reward and competition is the force that makes people do things, and that something is usually money (or something that must be bought by money).

If there's nothing like that, I doubt people will want to work themselves to their limit. Even if they do work, I doubt it will be their fullest. Remember that most often, people will show their full potential only when they're forced into a corner. The more desperate they are, the more power they'll show...

If a person will get the same amount of money whether he's working hard or not, he (almost definitely) will not working hard. And if a lazy person gets same amount of money that a diligent person gets, the diligent person will be lazy too.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#38 Post by Elenakiara » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:54 am

LVUER wrote: If a person will get the same amount of money whether he's working hard or not, he (almost definitely) will not working hard. And if a lazy person gets same amount of money that a diligent person gets, the diligent person will be lazy too.
I was actually wondering the same thing. xD And about the artist part too. xD Since me, I'd like to make visual novels in the comfort of my home and not actually work my butt off as much organizing people at work(future HR manager here xDD).
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#39 Post by Lekhaka » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:01 pm

Jo'ogn wrote:@Chrizine - this concept needs ppl to have the ability to envision the consequences if money is completely removed from the system, or society. Ppl are so focussed on money in this world that it has become such an integral part of their lives that they can barely perceive any alternatives of living. I consider my concept nothing but common sense. It's like a chain reaction...

There would be no need to 'deal' with 'ideas'. Most ppl would gladly contribute their ideas, because it will be for their own good and they will need help to have them turned into reality. e.g. Like we rely on a PyTom programming Ren'Py, as he relies in turn on our feedback and happiness to creatively use it to entertain, yet more ppl.

One thing I didn't point out in my vision is, that everything will be available for free. There won't be shops anymore, but 'warehouses'. Ppl still have to 'work' like today, but in considerable smaller amounts (less than a day per week would be necessary). Factories will be still operated like today, but no longer for the sake of making profit, but if the community has a need for a factory's prodcuts it will be operated by more automation and 'quasi-volunteering-employees'. When all is said and done a lot of work in this world does not need qualification to be done. A simple training on the job can do.

Furthermore there will be a lot of ppl available to share all the necessary work amongst them. First anyone once invovled with money jobs (clerks, insurances, banking, taxes, fees, fines) would be free to do sth more sensible and productive. Older ppl can (and still wish to) work too. Many companies do not employ ppl because of the costs. However in my vision there are no 'costs' anymore. So instead of running shifts and overhours, many ppl would share that 'work' amongst themselves. In turn they will gain greater quality of living with all that struggle - any of them.

Ppl could share cars. There won't be any (forced) need to commute anymore. A family doesn't need to buy a car. They can take one from the community for the few moments they need it. Means, less need for petrol, less traffic, less noise, less pollution, less waste of resources. And what's more products can be produced with way extended longevity, durability and quality. Which in turn again reduces the need of over-producing, saving resources.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you simply stating the communist ideal?

Humans can and have lived without money (bartering without a form of currency). What you're proposing is more than eliminating currency, though. It's the elimination of distinctive possession (by individual or group entities). And I don't think there have been any precedent examples of that. So no, it's not really "common sense" for the rest of us. :wink:

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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#40 Post by VenusEclipse » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:40 pm

I want to be in a world like Futurama with a few exceptions.

1.)There's a solution for pollution so there will be no sewer mutants.
2.)Heads in jars will only exist for life saving purposes.
3.)The world will not be in cartoon form, and will resemble our world.
4.)The people won't be as crazy as some characters on the show. People's characteristics will resemble our world.

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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#41 Post by Jo'ogn » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:19 am

First of all: it's ~MY~ "second world" according to LVUERs topic offer so "Back off!" =D
lordcloudx wrote:What about the peacekeeping force? Would there be a need for one?
Agreeably the whole approach is so radical, that it is hard to tell how ppl would develop under such different conditions. But yes, there are laws, which protect the inhabitants of my world from violent, abusive, or disturbing individuals. It's still not acceptable e.g. to run heavily noisy off-road races in an area where ppl live and want their peace and tranquillity.

To serve such desires as e.g open-air concerts, racing tracks, shooting ranges, paint-gun areas etc there need to be agreements and plannings where to build them and how to deal with 'side-effects'.
lordcloudx wrote:what would happen if society produced nothing but artists with no interest in performing non-creative tasks?
Very unlikely. Granted in such a free world many ppl will develop and nurse their abilities and aspirations - which is the whole point. But it will even out. Some ppl like dull labour. Some want to help other ppl. Ppl will more freely follow their dreams and not be tied down by the need of money to survive.

There will be good organisation of what a(ny) community needs. i.e. in this world 'government' will be broken down to small self-sufficient areas. Those communities will communicate their needs and available working forces with all the other communities. Likely through web-based applications, information systems and databases.

e.g. In one area there is a higher demand for cars. Or certain type of food. So they might set up necessary factories in that area - if it's more efficient than transportation of wares from A to B.

Like I said before: ppl will be obliged to 'work'. For at least one day per week. To assure the production of the goods a community considers necessary for them. Of course it is possible that areas/communities have shortages of qualified personnel. That's where creativity and innovation comes into play. I expect an advent of new technologies we barely dream of these days. e.g. Teleportation.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#42 Post by Jo'ogn » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:37 am

LVUER wrote:Reward and competition is the force that makes people do things, and that something is usually money (or something that must be bought by money).
If you look even at this world you know that this is not true. The sheer fact that you are in this forum proves you otherwise. e.g. what's the financial benefit of this topic you created? What's the benefit of most of the free games ppl create here?

Your thinking is clouded by the money infestation. :wink:

LVUER wrote: I doubt people will want to work themselves to their limit.
There is no need for that in ~my~ 2nd world.

In this "1st world" many ppl work more than 8 hours per day, 5 days a week. If we look closely, we'll most likely find, that they do that for no good reason. Neither is it necessary, nor are they happy about it. They do it because they are ~afraid~ of sth! Not because they get a nice 'reward'. They fear loosing their job, and/or not having enough money to buy food any paying their bills.
LVUER wrote:Reward and competition is the force that makes people do things, and that something is usually money (or something that must be bought by money).
I see that quite differently: It is ~because~ of the money-system, that ppl oppose each others in competition. However this world would have fallen apart long long ago, if humans would not use their 'common-sense' and act cooperative despite. Of course many ppl feel they loose if they do things for free. But why do they believe that? Because they only get wares if they pay for them. How do they pay? With money. How do they get money? It's a vicious circle - an inherent flaw in the money system!

The desire for accomplishment is not fuelled by 'money'. It comes automagically through living and doing sth with our life-time. Right now money stands in our way. That's how I see it.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#43 Post by Jo'ogn » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:52 am

Elenakiara wrote:I'd like to make visual novels in the comfort of my home and not actually work my butt off as much organizing people at work
Perfectly acceptable in ~my~ "2nd World". Your VNs might contribute to the entertainment of the ppl there. If you are publishing them that is. Most likely - depending on the 'quality' - you cannot do your VNs alone by yourself. So you will likely require help of other artists.

Then I bet, there will be a time, when you are done doing your VNs and you want to do sth different. E.g. you might like pets. So you could walk old ppl's dogs, or generally caring about other ppl's pets. That would be a valuable 'work' in my 2nd 'world'. You might even be willing to do it ~more~ than just some hours for one day per week.

Because there is another difference in ~my~ "2nd World": Ppl will do things they actually LIKE to do. They won't call it 'work' anymore. Most of it will be rather 'Fun'.
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#44 Post by Jo'ogn » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:09 am

Lekhaka wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you simply stating the communist ideal?
I don't know about the "communist ideal". And to to be honest I don't care about it either. So, yes! You are mistaken.
Lekhaka wrote:It's the elimination of distinctive possession (by individual or group entities)
Not really. Unless you want to 'possess' houses and rent them to inhabitants in ~my~ "2nd World". Or you want to 'possess' a necessary(!) factory and mean to limit access or the productions for inhabitants in ~my~ "2nd World".

Then: yes, it's not possible!

Inhabitants of ~my~ "2nd World" can possess as many cars, fridges, TVs or what's not, as they - in reason - want to. If there would be reason to believe your are merely stacking all these things somewhere, you consider your property, for the sheer reason to not letting other ppl have them, then you'd be prohibited to do so. Because you would be wasting valuable resources for no apparent reason.

I would believe many ppl wouldn't even want to 'possess' e.g. sth like a car anymore, and be happy to take any available free random community car on the street, if they happen to be in need of such a means of transport.

Also a lot of apartmens, flats would be available, because a lot of buildings who served the money administration would be now freely available. Actually I like a place with a nice view! but I also would tear down a couple of buildings within cities to create more green areas and make cities less 'dense'.
Lekhaka wrote:And I don't think there have been any precedent examples of that.
As you can see, there ~has~! In ~my~ "2nd World"! So there! ~~~q:
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Re: What kind of world do you like for your second world?

#45 Post by Elenakiara » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:44 am

Jo'ogn wrote:
Elenakiara wrote:I'd like to make visual novels in the comfort of my home and not actually work my butt off as much organizing people at work
Perfectly acceptable in ~my~ "2nd World". Your VNs might contribute to the entertainment of the ppl there. If you are publishing them that is. Most likely - depending on the 'quality' - you cannot do your VNs alone by yourself. So you will likely require help of other artists.

Then I bet, there will be a time, when you are done doing your VNs and you want to do sth different. E.g. you might like pets. So you could walk old ppl's dogs, or generally caring about other ppl's pets. That would be a valuable 'work' in my 2nd 'world'. You might even be willing to do it ~more~ than just some hours for one day per week.

Because there is another difference in ~my~ "2nd World": Ppl will do things they actually LIKE to do. They won't call it 'work' anymore. Most of it will be rather 'Fun'.
Ohohoh, now this I like! xD Especially since you guessed that I like pets, which I really do! <3 xD So okay, I see your point then! :3
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