Race in Visual Novels
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- Deji
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
Like I said in the previous thread, I live in a pretty homogeneous environment, to the point I go "Ohhh, that person may come from XX! Cool :O" Every time I see somebody who's asian, or arab or indian or black. I think I've seen like 6 black people ever in real life, and every time I end up staring at them because, well, it's just so different and interesting!
I'd feel weird including a black character in a story of mine for that very same reason ^^;
I'm not against including people
In my Caramel Mokaccino, everybody has mixed blood, and the main characters have all caucasian european heritages, because that's what's common here and what I'm familiar with. I also thought that people with european heritage are like everywhere, so it would help create a more 'neutral' setting for western people.
I also tried to give everybody a different eye/hair color, for the sake of variety. I didn't play with skin color, though; Ian is the darkest one compared to the rest of the cast, but he's not exactly brown either.
The only 'different' ones are the minor characters, where I currently have a blue-eyed half-asian girl, and I may end up having other different mixes when I actually start drawing the minor characters properly.
I'd feel weird including a black character in a story of mine for that very same reason ^^;
I'm not against including people
In my Caramel Mokaccino, everybody has mixed blood, and the main characters have all caucasian european heritages, because that's what's common here and what I'm familiar with. I also thought that people with european heritage are like everywhere, so it would help create a more 'neutral' setting for western people.
I also tried to give everybody a different eye/hair color, for the sake of variety. I didn't play with skin color, though; Ian is the darkest one compared to the rest of the cast, but he's not exactly brown either.
The only 'different' ones are the minor characters, where I currently have a blue-eyed half-asian girl, and I may end up having other different mixes when I actually start drawing the minor characters properly.
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
I just can't bring myself to care that much about racial diversity, or lack thereof, in games. Here in America, when people complain that there aren't enough Hispanic/black/asian/whatever characters in popular entertainment, it seems like it could be fixed by just making some of the characters a few shades darker and leaving it at that. That doesn't really change the game (or TV show, or movie) in any way that interests me.
I think the way to go is more cultural diversity. One thing that I've heard complaints about is the lack of diversity in fantasy books and games, where almost all the characters are white. Well, that's probably because the roots of most medieval-ish fantasy are in Western European history and myths. It'd be pretty cool if someone made a fantasy VN based on African or Indian or South Asian legends, not just a knights-and-castles fantasy with some nonwhite people dropped in here and there.
However, VN authors really can't be blamed for a lack of diversity in their games, because I'm willing to bet that most of them just write what they know - either the other white people they know in real life, or the Japanese people with technicolor hair they know through anime. I know I'd probably be a lot more comfortable writing a medieval-Europe fantasy VN, because I live with the descendants of medieval Europeans, I've had a lot of education in their history, art and literature, and I grew up reading fantasy novels based on the same thing. And really, I'm not sure what's wrong with that. Humans aren't made to be omnicultural - that's why we have different cultures in the first place! And it's better to have a good "homogeneous" VN than a mediocre, more "diverse" one.
I think the way to go is more cultural diversity. One thing that I've heard complaints about is the lack of diversity in fantasy books and games, where almost all the characters are white. Well, that's probably because the roots of most medieval-ish fantasy are in Western European history and myths. It'd be pretty cool if someone made a fantasy VN based on African or Indian or South Asian legends, not just a knights-and-castles fantasy with some nonwhite people dropped in here and there.
However, VN authors really can't be blamed for a lack of diversity in their games, because I'm willing to bet that most of them just write what they know - either the other white people they know in real life, or the Japanese people with technicolor hair they know through anime. I know I'd probably be a lot more comfortable writing a medieval-Europe fantasy VN, because I live with the descendants of medieval Europeans, I've had a lot of education in their history, art and literature, and I grew up reading fantasy novels based on the same thing. And really, I'm not sure what's wrong with that. Humans aren't made to be omnicultural - that's why we have different cultures in the first place! And it's better to have a good "homogeneous" VN than a mediocre, more "diverse" one.
- papillon
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
Someone coming from a highly homogeous culture where there really are very few minorities shouldn't be badgered to insert things they know nothing about, obviously, but how many of us really don't know anyone of a race, religion, or social class other than our own? I attended an incredibly tiny expensive private religious school, and we still had all of those things, although in quite small numbers.However, VN authors really can't be blamed for a lack of diversity in their games, because I'm willing to bet that most of them just write what they know - either the other white people they know in real life, or the Japanese people with technicolor hair they know through anime.
People have a tendency not so much to write what they know, but to write what they are - to default people to being 'like themselves' if they're not thinking about it, even if that self-likeness doesn't make sense in context, and to take all that for granted. This leads to shallow characters and sloppy writing. I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of the same, I certainly have been! But I see no reason why this tendency can't or shouldn't be critiqued.
(And if you really truly don't know anyone who belongs to any culture or subculture other than your own - get out more. It'll be good for you as a writer to experience more of the world!)
No individual author is responsible for changing the world. No one should be forced to write stories they don't want to write about characters they don't want to have. But that doesn't mean it's wrong for anyone else to have a look at the issue and want to be more inclusive. There are some very unfortunate implications in suggesting that putting more diverse characters in games would automatically make them worse games. There are players who are really tired of being told that characters like themselves don't belong in games.
- Midnighticequeen
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
You might want to revise that statement. Almost like your saying homogeneous VN will be better than a more diverse one naturally, which can really led to a lot of angry comments and is entirely not true.And it's better to have a good "homogeneous" VN than a mediocre, more "diverse" one.
I once had a complaint similar to that years ago, but then I thought about it for a second and realized the exact same things. Still, in a fantasy world anything is possible. Any color, culture, creature, etc. So saying that medieval-ish fantasies don't see many diversity because of its roots or more so a lack of creativity or trying to think out of the box. Fantasy, is fantasy. Literally anything can happen.I think the way to go is more cultural diversity. One thing that I've heard complaints about is the lack of diversity in fantasy books and games, where almost all the characters are white. Well, that's probably because the roots of most medieval-ish fantasy are in Western European history and myths. It'd be pretty cool if someone made a fantasy VN based on African or Indian or South Asian legends, not just a knights-and-castles fantasy with some nonwhite people dropped in here and there.
I agree with you on many levels. Especially about this one. Different views, cultures, and experiences can influence and liven up your writing immensely.(And if you really truly don't know anyone who belongs to any culture or subculture other than your own - get out more. It'll be good for you as a writer to experience more of the world!)
Took the words out of my mouth.There are players who are really tired of being told that characters like themselves don't belong in games.
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
Amen to that Internet Sista! (Or Brotha, whichever you prefer ;P )Midnighticequeen wrote:I once had a complaint similar to that years ago, but then I thought about it for a second and realized the exact same things. Still, in a fantasy world anything is possible. Any color, culture, creature, etc. So saying that medieval-ish fantasies don't see many diversity because of its roots or more so a lack of creativity or trying to think out of the box. Fantasy, is fantasy. Literally anything can happen.I think the way to go is more cultural diversity. One thing that I've heard complaints about is the lack of diversity in fantasy books and games, where almost all the characters are white. Well, that's probably because the roots of most medieval-ish fantasy are in Western European history and myths. It'd be pretty cool if someone made a fantasy VN based on African or Indian or South Asian legends, not just a knights-and-castles fantasy with some nonwhite people dropped in here and there.
The beautiful thing about fiction is that it can be anything you want it to be. Your stories should have depth by way of the character's personalities not what color they are.
Personally I like to add a variety of races and colors to my games and stories, but that is because most of my stories and games are set in a multicultural environment. If your story is not that way then it is fine if you have only a single human/alien race. The only thing you have to steer clear of is putting token race characters in your stories. It is so glaringly obvious when people do this. It is SO important to flesh out ALL of your characters, even minor ones. I hate, hate, hate it when my game experience is interrupted by encountering an underdeveloped character. White, black, yellow, purple it doesn't matter; if it is underdeveloped I don't like it.
/rant
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
I myself prefer the cat people over the human race.
I for one welcome our catian overlords.
I for one welcome our catian overlords.
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
Furry? Which one?
I hope not the last one ^_^ (I revive this magnificent chart from the pile of our archive... it deserves a come back!)
I hope not the last one ^_^ (I revive this magnificent chart from the pile of our archive... it deserves a come back!)
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- MiSi
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
ha, ha I use the first two ones in my stories, I think... or a bastard-thing between them...
only thing, i don't like: When cat-people are looking more human-like (number 1), I prefer the ears where humans' ears are normally, not where cats' ears are... (rather on the sides of the head, not on the top of it)
only thing, i don't like: When cat-people are looking more human-like (number 1), I prefer the ears where humans' ears are normally, not where cats' ears are... (rather on the sides of the head, not on the top of it)
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
I think that race in anything like video games, movies etc. Is not something to think too deep about. It is an element to consider but it's more of a minor one to think of, much like what car a person is driving. You could do a visual novel about cars and focus on that i.e. Chevy/Ford wars or the Ricers/Hot Rods. Race is somehting to only consider if that is the focus or part of the story development.
For example I can set a romance set in Ohio with a Czech-American who is falling inlove with her best friend who is Brazilian. Now do either of these ethnic/races matter to the story? Does anything matter in that setting for the character to fall in love with a brown skin girl? If you can't use race or ethnic groups as main drive in your story, then don't bother to consider it a choice but more of an option. Hence why many novelist use skin or groups that they are familiar with.
Is it bad for a white novelist to write a story with just white skined people in it? Did race matter as much as what truck they were all driving? In many cases having a white skinned or brown skinned toon is much of a pallet option as having a person drive a honda. If it fits the story, it fits. Race can be important in some stories (Racism in America) but many times it means jack squat and it's the writers preference on what skin they wish to apply.
For example I can set a romance set in Ohio with a Czech-American who is falling inlove with her best friend who is Brazilian. Now do either of these ethnic/races matter to the story? Does anything matter in that setting for the character to fall in love with a brown skin girl? If you can't use race or ethnic groups as main drive in your story, then don't bother to consider it a choice but more of an option. Hence why many novelist use skin or groups that they are familiar with.
Is it bad for a white novelist to write a story with just white skined people in it? Did race matter as much as what truck they were all driving? In many cases having a white skinned or brown skinned toon is much of a pallet option as having a person drive a honda. If it fits the story, it fits. Race can be important in some stories (Racism in America) but many times it means jack squat and it's the writers preference on what skin they wish to apply.
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Re: Race in Visual Novels
The bottom right of the chart should be "Fine Too". I hate most memes, but that one's alright.
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