Closed project.

[Gear]

Nothing is going to be accomplished here. You can say whatever you want. I have a project to complete, and this is a waste of time. Gear out.

[Dollywitch]

Nothing is going to be accomplished here. You can say whatever you want. I have a project to complete, and this is a waste of time. Gear out.

It's a "waste of time" having to deal the consequences of throwing out two members without warning while shielding someone who's repeatedly torn into them in the chat? You endorsed and shielded a bully. You made your case worse by following his example yourself when I was understandably upset at you in chat, making all kinds of insulting remarks that were irrelevant to the situation. That's extremely serious, and no amount of accusations of us trying to dismantle the project will change that. You have a lot to apologise for. The only reason people are continuing is because they believe in the collective effort, not you, or simply haven't seen what's happened.

If nothing is going to be accomplished here, it is entirely down to your own lack of will to listen to others. Please don't blame it on us. Moya tried to reason with you, and you didn't respond at all.

Trying to resolve things peacefully and maturely, instead of with mindless authoritarianism was a "waste of time" to you. So now instead we have this. So much for a "fun" project.

If anyone from the project is interested or missed it, I will post the offending fallouts that lead to this via PM, so you can judge for yourself.

[Dollywitch]

(This message has been approved/corrected by others in the group)

My stance is simple. If PyTom wants the name changed, that's fine. However, if Dollywitch wants her project to be associated with mine, then no. I, like many other people, will refuse to endorse a product created by the person who went out of their way to try and tear my project apart.

This was literally all you. I was dropped from the project without warning or without a chance to say anything in my defense. You also endorsed a person who actually was causing a lot of divisiveness within the project and denied they even did anything despite their actions causing a temporary splinter group of 9+ people. Moya dissolved that group out of good faith in you. If it was still there, you would have lost far more people.

I was minding my own business, keeping to the other chat when I was suddenly kicked from the chat by the unstable Core member you refuse to deal with and then had to sit through your rants and told I was being banned while being presented with some of the most morally bankrupt reasoning I've ever seen as to why the above member gets a free pass.

Pretty much everything I'm saying with regards this is true and I can back it up with quotes if necessary.

Also, with regards hostility:

http://derailingfordummies.com/temper.html

So no, you will not create an offshoot. Just because my name isn't trademarked doesn't mean you can associate anything you want with it. That's like saying you can say whatever you want on a news site, and call yourself a reporter from CNN. You can't be affiliated with my project if you were removed from it as disciplinary action,

Incorrect. If anything, we are trying to remove you as disciplinary action. This was a collaborative project, and such projects of this nature can not have a dictator who doesn't consider each member's input. We agreed you should be in a leader-like role at the time because it seemed convenient. Some of Core acted unquestionably abusively and are no longer fit for lead roles of such a project. There are many things you have said are done that there is no defense for.

I am not saying this is absolutely what we will do. However, we are well within our rights to do so.

and your removal was the only way I could see saving the project from your destructive intentions.

Accusations. Myself, Moya and the others only acted out of concern for the project because it was on hiatus while your real-life issues were taking your time and there had been general difficulty with organisation, assigning artists, etc. This we can understand, but you cannot point fingers at a member who was trying to keep progress going and pretend to ignore the fact that another member used unnecessarily harsh language in telling her that she was never given the power to do such things, nor take your issues out on people such as myself who have already had far too much experience with rejection and bullying. Had more civil language been used, then Moya would not have felt driven out of Core.

Not once did you attempt to resolve the situation peacefully. You threw Moya out without waiting for her response, and even when she showed you the contents of her message. I notice your "official" email even giving this as the official story. You may want to watch what statements you give in public.

TL;DR: Do not associate yourself with my project. You are not welcome here (in this thread or in the vicinity of my project).

I have asked the mods. They have said this discussion is okay. It is not "your" project. It was meant to be an open collaboration and now you are acting like it's a personal project. This will not work out for you.

[PyTom]

First, let me ask that people not talk on the admin team's behalf. If we want to say something, we'll just say it. We don't need people talking for us.

Second, let me just point out that this is a classic project fork scenario. These things happen from time to time in open projects - and if I'm understanding things correctly, LemmaTV was run as an open project. Generally, it's not very productive to go into he-said/she-said mode - forks are something that happen, and airing the dirty laundry in public isn't something that's going to accomplish much.

Let me put my admin hat on for a moment - from here on, LSF is not to be used as a place to sort out what happened in this debate. The participants know what happened, the rest of us don't - and there's no point in using this forum to sort things out. Even if we had access to know exactly what happened - and we don't - doing so is off-topic for the LSF.

So your best bet is to just treat this as a fork, and move on. People participating in the new project should pick a new title, make a new thread for their new work, mention once that this is a fork of LemmaTV, and then treat it as if it was another project.

People are free to work on both, one, or none of the resulting branches. PM might be a good place to talk about this.

I don't know how you want to treat the assets created for the project. Ideally, you can come to an agreement that both projects can use them. Otherwise, the copyrights belong to the copyright holder, barring an agreement otherwise. (But I ask that people consider openness here.)

Finally, once this thread is

[Ziassan]

Okay, this will be a short reply for the differents PM etc. I received.
Don't transform the Chill in Childs being asked by their divorcing parent if they want to come with mom or dad.

Being suddendly forced to choose between two parts is unfair, even more since I (and probably others people) don't even understand what happened.
I was here to help on an interesting collaborative projet as a composer, not to take part in some silly conflicts, contradicting the idea of collaboration itself.

Indeed sometimes people were unpleasant, and when it was the case I said it to them directly, but most of the time the daily chat with the team was something enjoyable and instructive... and suddendly a whole part of them disappear ? What.
If it's a "fork" like Pytom say, at least make that fair and cordial, and clear for everybody.
You're forcing a choice on the group, so at least give a short and understandable explanation of what's happening. If you can't make an agreement on a common explanation, make two short, without endless argument, please.

Not everybody has time and motivation to go ask each part and to try to understand the things by reading all these hazy posts, so they'll just end leaving or staying on the "main" part by default (the one tied to the chat and the forum), that'd be stupid.

[Gear]

Okay, I will try to summarize this as succinctly and impartially as possible.

CheeryMoya and Dollywitch do not believe me to be the right person to lead LTV. They took actions that led to my decision to ban them from the project. Now they are starting on their own.

If you wish to join Moya and Dollywitch, that is your decision. You are more than welcome to do so. As it stands, all members who were a part of LTV are still a part of LTV until they say otherwise. If you want to be a part of both, that's perfectly fine on my end, though you can't use the same material for both.

So there you have it. LTV is continuing, even with the loss of Moya and Dollywitch. They are starting a new, separate collaborative project that you are welcome to join if they want you. As for LTV, it's business as usual.

[PyTom]

I deleted Dollywitch's post, per my request that "LSF is not to be used as a place to sort out what happened in this debate". I don't know who's right - I don't think it's possible for me to know, given that a lot of it seems to have happened off of the forum - but I don't think it matters. The LSF is not the place to sort out what said.

I deleted Gear's post that responded to that one, just because it doesn't make much sense except as a response.

Dollywitch, please don't post in this thread anymore. Create a new thread - or let CheeryMoya do so - and move on.

Gear, since there's now two projects, and as a forum admin, I don't want to promote one over the other, I'm going to ask that you change your sig to remove the words "forum-wide".

I'm busy with work and Ren'Py, and don't have a lot of time to spend sorting out the rest of this mess, so expect me to be heavy on the banhammer going forwards, unless these threads stick narrowly to game development type matters.

[Gear]

I understand, and I appreciate it. I'd like to go back to game development ASAP in this case.

[J. Datie]

Oh. Dramas.

Well, seeing as how this project has spiraled away from its original purpose, I guess I'll be taking my leave. I have no idea who's in what splinter groups or what's actually going on, so I'm just putting this here. I'll also ask that people involved with the project no longer contact me for any reason. That goes for both the loyalists and the rebel faction. Whatever it's about, I don't care anymore.

[Gear]

We're sorry to see you go. Good luck in your other projects.