Closed project.

[WatchJessieGo]

I'd love to be a proofreader if an spot is still open. :3

[CheeryMoya]

Of course we still got spots open! As long as you're willing to commit and do your assigned tasks, then you're good to go. I'll be sending a PM with more info.

[Roiya]

Id join but I'm not sure I completely understand the project. I would have to be chill because there are 3 projects I am working on but I finish assignments. My DA link is below
my strengths are bishonen but I can also do bishoujo. Sprites preferred but I can also do cgs/bgs if needed
I don't have skype yet but I can pm and email

[alexwhite]

Preferred Role(s): sprite artist or cg artist
Core or Chill Member: chill
Skype: ycawang

[CheeryMoya]

Removed at request. Moderators, don't mind a report about this.

[Dollywitch]

First off, there has been quite a lot of fighting in the chill chat lately, mostly centered around the management of Core and how some members did not agree with how things were being run.

CheeryMoya quit the Core group a few days earlier, but today myself and Cheery were dropped from the project by executive order, Cheery for betraying "trust" and myself for some frankly rather abusive accusations of "playing the minority card" and "starting fights for fun". He also lied about my contributions to the project, saying I'd made none, when this was untrue, and they were late purely because I was deathly ill and because I had joined the project at a later date than most members. I brought up my conditions several times and was ignored. Later, he back-stepped and mentioned my module, saying it was the only one not encoded. Again, I was ill, and I was told it wouldn't be a problem - I was never told to encode it.

I was not told this would be a problem at the time. I was not told I was behind in my contributions. I am also a composer so the body of my work is not until Phase III. Gear has refused to acknowledge any of this. It only became an issue when logical fallacies were needed to back the decision to eject myself and Moya (a priori reasoning).

Suffice to say, this was meant to be a "fun" project, yet later contradictions accusing me of not contributing, saying if this was a real job, I'd be fired.
It is the opinion of an increasing number of people within the project that the leadership is not satisfactory for the project, thus whatever contributions they made will be taken out of LemmaTV by their request.

[Dollywitch]

The project is not splitting into two sections. Members such as Moya and Dollywitch, who were removed from the project for specific reasons, are starting their own project. This new project is not affiliated or endorsed by LTV in any way, and I would appreciate no further attempts to advertise your projects in my threads.

This is incorrect. I do not recall an agreement that you had a monopoly on this. It is a collaborative project. We are a collective with a very lose command structure. This is not the military. We agreed you should be leader early on but we are unsure we should have made the decision.

The split will likely be endorsed by as many LTV members as yours, so how is it not affiliated or endorsed? You started the thread, great, appreciate it, good idea. But you are not the person some of us wish to be in charge. You have already contradicted your goals for this project several times, saying it was meant to be "fun", but when pointing out my rushed contributions were due to illness, you said if it was a Job, I would have been fired(in civilised countries, this doesn't happen). Which is it?

[Gear]

You can have your project, that is fine. But it will not be affiliated with ours, nor endorsed. It is completely separate from us, and LTV (or whatever name it will have in the future) will have nothing to do with it. That is our stance. You are creating a separate project, not an extension of ours. That would require permission from the leadership. That's like opening a store and calling it Wal-Mart just because you feel like it. Doesn't work that way.

[Dollywitch]

You can have your project, that is fine. But it will not be affiliated with ours, nor endorsed. It is completely separate from us, and LTV (or whatever name it will have in the future) will have nothing to do with it. That is our stance. You are creating a separate project, not an extension of ours. That would require permission from the leadership. That's like opening a store and calling it Wal-Mart just because you feel like it. Doesn't work that way.

Who's stance? Who is this "us"? It's mostly just you and your programmer in this. As it is, you will have lost many of your members and what you're left with won't resemble what it was before. Walmart is a trademark, "LemmaTV" is not. And we will happily push this as an offshoot of what was LemmaTV, because that's what it is. Half of the point is that you acted in a manner that was without empathy or consideration to others, and it shouldn't go unquestioned. You are going to lose people over this. We want to set a better example. This could be great for the OELVN community and something that might get us taken more seriously. We can't have project leaders tearing the project in two because some people weren't getting on(and the one person you refuse to even reprimand was almost always involved). You saw a crack and made a chasm. "Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" was made for situations like this.

I'm willing to accept I shouldn't take on the kind of position you did, I'm aware of my own shortcomings more than you think, but I am at least more rational and compassionate than some involved with the project.

I also want to point out that you did not even try to resolve this. There was absolutely no effort on your behalf to reach a resolution that could have saved the project in anything resembling it's current form. Right after it happened(well, the first course of action that you took after it happened), you came in with a rant and said you were throwing myself and Moya out. Also I'm aware that you sent a PM to Moya to ask for her side of the story. You did not wait for her side of the story before you were, quite obviously, about to kick her out of the project anyway. I can't imagine how you could have handled this much worse, short of promoting the offender further.

At no point did you come to me about behind in my contributions(How is this possible? It's not Phase III yet and you never told me to encode my module) and the one time we had a discussion we came to an agreement with regards your style of administration for the project, which you've now gone back on completely. What's more is you were made fully aware at the time of my difficulties with regards stress and panic, and yet today continued to trigger me and make triggering remarks without apology. You also judged me for starting fights were other people were making insensitive or ignorant remarks that could have been offensive towards others in the chat. If more people have been complaining about me, it's because your programmer makes such a mess everytime people either say it to their face or lose confidence anything will be done at all.

Also, some of us have put work into the project. What's meant to happen to that? You might complain about lack of encoding, but I put a lot of effort into my module when I was very ill. Why are you acting like it being a long module is a burden when I was assured otherwise in the chat? There are others who have put in work who will now end up leaving. You could have saved their work. You chose not to.

The number of people you've lost, myself, Moya, Leon, Viridi and that's just to start with, is not outweighed the one person you were defending. I would go so far as to say Moya is the most valuable person in the project. And even if Moya may be humble about some things, the rest of us are concerned for her. Just because you claim not see the behaviour that pushed her into leaving doesn't mean it wasn't there, and regardless, when working on a group project you have to make considerations for others even if you don't agree with them. Many people, including myself, were already making compromises you probably weren't aware of. You are not a dictator.

This isn't my fault, or Moya's. The split is entirely the fault of you and your programmer, but you refuse to take responsibility for this. People have tried to be reasonable with you but the only reason some(or at least myself) have snapped at you is that you are so uncompromising, regularly misrepresent the situation and refuse to listen to anyone else.

Also, Renpytom is saying he might not want the LSF name affiliated with either project, as neither are affiliated in any official capacity.

[PyTom]

I'm not saying that.

If anything, I'm wondering if we want the forum name associated with neither project - neither is anything official.

(I don't have a strong opinion about the underlying dispute - I don't know enough about it. I'll just note that this project seems to have drifted far from the original idea of a simple project designed to bring people together.)

[Dollywitch]

Sorry, I typo'd, I'll fix it. Very panicy so editing posts a lot.

[Dollywitch]

I'll just note that this project seems to have drifted far from the original idea of a simple project designed to bring people together.

I think this is the problem a lot of us are having. I'll admit I'm not always easy to work with but I can at least make compromises to some degree and drop things after a while. There are others who have been flaring up constantly and now that the director is intent on splitting it in two, it's really no longer about bringing people together. In fact because of the number of people involves, this is actually a minor disaster for the OELVN community as a whole.

There will be so much bad blood from this. A huge group project isn't easy, personalities will clash and fights will happen. But so far some of the core members aggravated these problems, if anything. It was difficult enough organising people before, Moya had to chase after them constantly. They should have figured in how much worse that problem will be now when some people might be too scared to even be involved. There are just so many things that are so wrong with this.

[Gear]

My stance is simple. If PyTom wants the name changed, that's fine. However, if Dollywitch wants her project to be associated with mine, then no. I, like many other people, will refuse to endorse a product created by the person who went out of their way to try and tear my project apart. So no, you will not create an offshoot. Just because my name isn't trademarked doesn't mean you can associate anything you want with it. That's like saying you can say whatever you want on a news site, and call yourself a reporter from CNN. You can't be affiliated with my project if you were removed from it as disciplinary action, and your removal was the only way I could see saving the project from your destructive intentions.

TL;DR: Do not associate yourself with my project. You are not welcome here (in this thread or in the vicinity of my project).

[Hijiri]

I would say, in order to spare what little pride and dignity you all have left, to move this argument to PM's. Nobody outside of the project needs to see this squabbling.

[Dollywitch]

I would say, in order to spare what little pride and dignity you all have left, to move this argument to PM's. Nobody outside of the project needs to see this squabbling.

This is a thread to begin with and the whole project needs to see it. If we take it to PMs, Gear will only stop responding. Others can't see it, there's no public pressure. We've already been kicked out of the project. We are not doing anything wrong. If Gear had chosen to resolve this maturely, this would not necessary. The mods have given this discussion the OK for now, so it would be crazy not to take advantage of that. Again, this is a Lemmasoft collaborative project. It is perfectly on topic and if someone is being kicked out for ridiculous and selfish reasons, people should know. Gear is also accusing us of trying to destroy the project which is completely untrue, and again, there is far more objective evidence that he and his programmer have done this.

I'd like to point out I'm having Moya and the others check my responses before I post them, while they're mostly my own point of view, I can still speak for the others if necessary, and they don't disagree with my posts thus far.

Not everyone saw the outbursts of the people in question, so people need to know. They are not making an informed decision if they only read Gear's group emails. They are welcome to consider those of course, but they need to read our side too.