Magical Boutique

[monele]

Ok, I'll try to have this system of closing the shop then

Visiting the inn : the only thing is that it won't be the only scripted thingie around . So I *could*, but I don't know how detailed each thing will be. You're on the right track on what it's going to be like though ^^.

Random events : I'll see what can be done with a "spreading out" algorithm. I had that thought once... will have to apply it now ^^;. But I should at least make sure we don't get *too many* random events. Randomness will do the rest.

Reward/Punishment : Magical Boutique becomes My Little Slave :3 j/k. I could add a way to give money bonuses. You could do it whenever you want (well, once a day at least) and it would boost the morale proportionally to the amount of money, but I'd add a "used to getting money" factor so that constantly giving money makes the character greedy and asking for more and more. OR.... or I only allow this once a month to avoid abuses and spare myself another balance algorithm :3.
But ok, that's not *exactly* what you're referring to ^^;... I just haven't planned "bad actions" from workers but yea... if their morale is low, there could be a bigger and bigger chance that instead of just not working much, they will just stop working. This reminds me of Princess Maker 2 . But see, there's no reason to punish since it's because *you* couldn't raise their morale enough .
What do the others think about this ? Are there other examples where it could be useful to reward/punish ?

dizzcity : First, Ren'Py scripting will be used, obviously. The only thing you'll really need are object references and what you can get/set when it comes to values.
Simple example of what one would need to do to add a new worker to the data without overriding anything :

Code: Select all

init:
    image loktar = "fb_loktar.png"
label initcharamore:
    python:
        charapool['newguy'] = Perso("Loktar", "loktar", "f_loktar.jpg", "loktar.png", salaryfact=0.9, desc="Loktar is a tough warrior from mountains of the North. He should make a good guard.")
        charapool['newguy'].addAbleTasks(Guard(60, xpfactor=5, xpcurve=1.4, xpreward=3))

That's for initialization. The only thing that wouldn't right now is that initcharamore won't be called. I'll just add an editable list of labels that will be called at initialization.
The declared image is the Full Body picture. Then, you add a new character to the "charapool", with the "newguy" keyword (all this syntax is from Python btw). In "Perso(...)", you give details about the character : name, full body image name, face image file, status image file, salary factor (here, 90% of a normal salary), and description.
Then you tell the game he is able to guard stuff, with an aptitude of 60. He'll gain his first level after 5xp (xpfactor), will earn 3 levels from it (xpreward), and how much will be needed for the next level will follow a curve of power 1.4 (xpcurve).

Of course, all this would be documented in a better way but I hope you see the point .

Then what's left to do is add the event where the guy joins the team... unless you want him available from the start. But let's go with the event example :

Code: Select all

label loktarjoins:

    "Loktar joined us today !"
    staff.append(charapool['newguy'])

    return

That's it for the scene . Much easier ^^.

And last thing... tell the game *when* this will happen. That's something I haven't implemented yet. But I think I'll try to have a list of all the possible events... events being objects with a "triggered()" function that returns wether or not the event should play. So you would do all the tests you want in there and return True or False. If it's True, then it will fetch the label name it has to play and jump to it.

Sounds good ?


EDIT :

Wanted to add a little bit about quests and how I planned them so far (customization not included). My idea is to have multiple "paths", non-exclusive, that lead to endings (usually one, sometimes two). All these story paths would progress through missions/quests, depending on wether you succeed or fail. Failing means not going further down that path.
Let's make up an example :

- The King of Squirrels Path -

1st scene condition : Framboise gathered 10 times in the Forest of Sympathy. Framboise reports that she has seen more and more squirrels in the forest lately. It seemed strange to her.

2nd scene condition : after this, sending Lemi (the one who talks to animals) in the forest (making up this character for this example too :p). Lemi learns from the squirrels that they're going to be out of hazelnuts soon since the trees have become ill lately.

3rd scene, next Saturday : while walking in town, you hear confirmations about a lack of hazelnuts in the forest and trees looking rather weak.

4th scene, few days later : the head of the squirrels actually comes to your shop and explains to Lemi that the situation is desperate! If nothing is done within the two coming weeks, the trees are going to die and the squirrels won't have anywhere to live because there are no hazelnut forest nearby! You can agree to help them or not.

During the 2 weeks, you can search for information in libraries. The idea is that you'd end up getting a recipe for a tree-healing potion (there could probably be more story to it but eh... I'm tired ^^;...). You'd then make a hundred of these potions to heal enough of the trees.

Possible outcomes :
- You refused the quest or couldn't make it in time : The nut trees end up dying and the squirrel society leaves the forest, never to be heard of again. Did they survive and find a new haven ? No one knows. Lemi is very saddened by this outcome and stays depressed for a month. Framboise is touched and loses morale a single time.
- You accepted and succeeded : the trees are saved, so are the squirrels. Lemi is glad everything ends well and will be cheerful for quite some time, while Framboise, happy that you helped animals, gets a morale boost. Also, the trees seem to actually be even better than before : the rarity of hazelnuts in the forest is cut in half!

5th scene, at least 2 months later and when your reputation reaches an arbitrary value : the squirrels are now in peril because of wild beasts that have appeared lately. You can help them by making a repulsive potion against these beasts.
If you do, happiness ensues. If not, the beasts end up dominating the forest and you'll have to protect your gatherers with guards from now on. On the other hand, your hunters (animal parts gatherers) will be able to get these beasts fur... which might be useful for other potions.

But let's say you helped the squirrels again : this time, your actions unlocked the Squirrel ending. Assuming it's the first one you unlock, you will find a new "Endings" button on the main menu, with a "Squirrels" item in it. By clicking on it, you declare wanting to end your game (your current carreer) by taking this path. Basically, you feel the squirrels are your best friends and you want to live in the forest you protected. Wai~ you nature lover


Notes on the *real* thing :

There probably won't be *just* two quests before you unlock an ending.
Most of the time, I'll try to have a first ending halfway through, that isn't *so* rewarding but still nice. You can ignore this ending and go on with the game, hoping to unlock the *best* ending of that path. Note that the halfway ending won't be available once you start with the next quests down that path.
I'll try to make good and bad things happen wether you accept or not. Sometimes, though, I think I'll be forced to just lower the reputation if you refuse because that's the logical consequence :/. The good point will always be that you won't be stressed for the next few weeks :p (*you*, not your character).

The idea behind unlocked endings :

I don't want the ending system to be annoying. I don't want to force people to play a hundred times to get everything. So instead of throwing an ending to your head, I notify you that you *could* now choose to retire or go another way. Maybe you end up falling in love with the miss who sells you ingredient and go to live with her... or maybe you end up living as a wandering healer. I don't know ... There's lots of freedom there ^^.
Note : once an ending is unlocked, it might not stay forever ! Very true for halfway ending. Sometimes true for endings based on relationships (if you end up fighting more than being lovey lovey, you might lose that ending with the lady). But see, it's nothing big, just save, watch the ending, and reload to go on with your game. Unless you feel it's a good conclusion and you'd rather start again. It's up to *you*.

[PyTom]

One thing you'd want is for plugin code to run inside init 1 (or init 10, or whatever) blocks... to ensure that it is run after the main code sets up the game infrastructure.

[monele]

Oops, yes ^.^ Forgot to add this in the example code . For the rest, I think I'll use something similar to your overlay system (with adding to the list and such)

[musical74]

Hmmmmmm sold 45 weak heal on one day, and 17 more unfulfilled...think they like weak heal?

One problem I ran into when thinking about reward and punishments is this: suppose the main character is the one who screws up...he's the owner of the place, how would you punish the main character? Rewards is still good (Framboise finds an EXTREMELY rare ingredient, for example) but punishment might be harder to manage...I guess you could make the punishment based on morale? For example, Framboise's morale is at 52 and she decides to spend the day at the Lake sunning herself. That would have a different punishment than if her morale was 12 and she decided to go tanning. The first case, her morale is great and she chose to enjoy a day of sunning herself. The second case? Her morale is down, she's stressed, and she uses the day to relax a bit. So your punishment at 52 would be more serious because she SHOULD be gathering indregients and not getting a tan!

Something else I considered: the employees requesting a day off. For example, on a really beautiful day, Framboise wants to spend the day doing something else but she wants to clear it with you first. Is this something than can work? Where the employees want to take a day off here and there?

Regarding the closing of the shop: I think it's a good idea to make sure that the store, for the first couple of weeks, maybe the first month, that the store is required to stay open. You don't want to close down the store too early, and if the player tries to, have Framboise remind the player that it's not a good idea to close the store so early. If the player insists on it...lose a staggering amount of reputation. The reason? Customers aren't sure what to make of a *new store* shutting down for a week!

Just some ideas thinking about it...the employees <at the beginning, employee> requesting a day off might not be feasible...just seeing what might work and might not =)

[monele]

Punishment : the thing that bothers me is that I don't see why Framboise would mess up if there's no reason to. She wouldn't mess up if she's neutral or feeling good, right ? And if she's feeling slightly bad to really bad, there are just growing chances that she will mess up. But what would punishing her then do ? Rise her morale ? ^^;... I'm just not sure, in terms of gameplay, what punishing would do. Whereas a reward, wether justified or not, will always have a good effect on morale (unless you abuse it, of course). Let's remember that's it's not Creature ^.^ There's no complex AI learning what's good and bad .

Day off : first, I want to say that I've planned a few things about vacations. There will be free and paid vacations. Free vacations can only be set based on a character's vacation schedule (a calendar filled by the character, telling you what dates are good to him/her). Some characters will want short 2 days vacations, others 2 weeks in a row. Some will have many possibilities, others only take their vacations twice a year maybe. When you see a character with low morale, you'd look at the sheet and see if there's a vacation in the coming days/weeks. The good point is that you don't pay the vacation nor any salary on these days.
Paid vacation is different in that it's paid by the boutique. You can send one or more characters to any vacation location you know (another set of locations above gathering locations). The good thing is that it *can* help relationships if the characters have a good time there. It might be more effective with morale too. And you can send them on these vacations whenever you want with a one week warning. You can also choose the time they spend there. It's rather customizable... but it's expensive ^^;

The day off is interesting in that it's not *you* deciding. I see that as a random event. I guess each character could have a threshold with morale deciding when they can't take it anymore and will ask for a day off on their own (or more). But I don't think them asking that on a beautiful day works . At least I wouldn't ask that to my boss ^^;. If they're feeling really bad or have something happening to them, then it's more justified. So I would consider this as random events ("my sister gets married in a month, can I go ?") and as a result of very low morale ("boss, I just can't take it anymore ;o;... I need a week off..."). In either case, you can accept or not (random events have a fixed date, others give you a week to react).

No closing at first : I'll just put the malus factor higher than zero at the beginning so that closing is the same as closing right after a two weeks closing .

[musical74]

The more I think about *punishment* here the less sense it makes. Generally speaking, Framboise wouldn't screw up unless her morale was bad, and if it is bad, that's something the player is doing (not letting her rest a day here and there). And, again, if it's the PLAYER that screws up (screws up brewing weak cure, for example), how do you punish the player?

Reward side of it is still good however...assuming the player doesn't abuse it! An example: during a gathering mission, Framboise finds about 4x what she usually does. You reward her for doing such a great job in finding indregidents. So long as she understands it's a reward for a job well done, no harm done

Speaking of gathering: noticed something last night. When I end Framboise off to the plains, she usually gets around 15 clover and around 8 or so fennel. Once, when I sent her there, she came back with 30 clover and 15 fennel - in other words, about twice what is normal. Kind of shocked me, really...but that made me think of something. Is there going to be a limit on how much a gatherer can bring back? Figure it would be pretty high, but maybe have some kind of limit? And have a carrysack for sale at the town so the gatherers could get more ingredients?

Just some ideas =)

[monele]

Punishment : that's what I think ^.^

Reward : the thing here is... when would Framboise gather 4x the usual ? And what would rewarding her do ? I'd like to avoid keeping track of good and bad things in a AI eduction way. If there's a simple way to implement this, good... otherwise... pyu :/.
And remember that I plan to have possible rewards... just that they would be outside of any particular action.

Gathering more : I suppose her morale was high and she probably gained a few levels since the last time ? That's the only way she can double the score.
Anyway, I did think about capacity (there's a variable for it, it's just not used). The idea is that each character will have a base capacity arbitrary chosen based on their strength and/or other particularities. At some point, a gatherer will be able to gather more than they can carry. When this happens, you'll either buy them new containers, or simply a vehicule acting as one (more capacity and speed depending on the vehicle).
But until these are implement, we get infinite capacity ^^

[dizzcity]

To be honest, I don't think capacity adds to the core gameplay much, either way. Actually, I think it overcomplicates things if capacity becomes a variable too... you've got enough things bouncing around that you have to start worrying about feature creep now. ^_^ Why not just set a simple quantity cap and keep it at that? If you want to get more of an item, assign more people to get it, rather than changing yet another property of the same person.

-Dizzy-

[monele]

Hmm... Well I did want to make a difference between Framboise the girly girl, Mozran the tough genie and Pimimi the tiny fairy. Unless I consider that all of them have a way to compensate and still have the same cap.
But really, either there's no cap, or it can be raised . Otherwise I think we'll reach another one of these ceilings after some time.

[yummy]

The more I think about *punishment* here the less sense it makes.

Drools~ hehe Punishment~~
Depends if Monele wants some extra scenes XD

[Jens]

Alright I feel awkward butting in here, but seeing as how huge this seems to be getting.
I'd more than love to see it become a group project with quests, codes, artwork and such being freely submittable.
If not for the notoriety of such things failing miserably.

Punishments:
Anyway if you ever get to that point they could decrease the effect of moral on work temporaraly but increase the decent, which would eventually lead to disaster. It could also have the revers effect depending on the characters temperament. As in the employe trying not to get in trouble but breaking under the pressure. Useful when in a hurry and coupled with rewards.

That said, with regards to plot:
I know I'm basically trying to hijack you're game here (which I suck for).
But I reeeeealy think a heavy plot can do no wrong.

And though it is an indubitable question of taste
I ask you to indulge me as I throw my ideas
into the proverbial cauldron.

And when I say MY ideas I mean the ones I stole from
Terry Pratchet.

In his books the guy explained that every uniquely magical item ever came from shops that
blinked out of existence the moment you turned around and checked.
So my idea would be to have the hero be dargged along
in typical kindegarten fairy tale fashion and end up as an
unwitting sales rep. in an unfamiliar business model.
The default plot device for a tutorial.

Anyway preventing the storyline from diluting should be fairly simple considering not all magic is safe and no world is ever peaceful.
You could end up as a anything from a blackmarket or a government owned supplier for armaments to front for espionage or who knows.
Monopolise the world via the übermenschly power of capitalism.



Man I wanna cowrite this thing ;_;

[dizzcity]

Welcome to the forum, Jens. About the plot idea... I think it needs more fleshing out before we can really comment on it. ^_^ Right now, it's just a vague idea that doesn't have much detail.

Events and Quests: Had to read through it three times, but I think I finally understand your quest and event model, monele. Looks good. I think it's workable, and scalable as well. It's basically a series of events happening at specific times, triggered by specific variables, and which return a value of True/False that can be used as triggers or conditions for the next event. Not very dynamic, but it doesn't have to be, since this should be a game first, and a storytelling engine second. I can work with that.

Reward/Punishment: The simplest (and most feasible) option, in my opinion, is to turn them into random events, with varied effects on character relationships. There are only two types of events - "Character does well" or "Character screws up". Within each event, there are two choices - either "Do something" (i.e. reward/punish) or "Do nothing". Depending on your choice, different variables will change. This can be scripted under events.

Example: A "Character Does Well" Event

Code: Select all

 "Framboise finds a hidden patch of clover and brings in four times the amount she normally does!"

  menu:

   "Do you"

    "reward her.":
      "You give Framboise a bonus of $100."
      $ Money -= 100
      "Framboise feels happy. Framboise's morale increases!"
      $ Framboise_morale +=20
      "Lemy feels jealous. Lemy's morale goes down."
      $ Lemy_morale -= 10
      "Pom feels greedy. Pom studies harder to earn more money."
      $ Pom_Brewing_Skill += 5

   "ignore it.":
     "Framboise feels unappreciated. Framboise's morale decreases."
     $ Framboise_morale -= 10
     "Lemy feels competitive. Lemy works harder at gathering."
     $ Lemy_Gather_Skill += 5

The same thing can be applied to a negative event, except that you have a "Punish" option instead of a "Reward" option. Basically, there is no real "right" choice. Each choice should end up with more than one type of result, some good and some bad. It just depends on what feels best to the player at the time.

Capacity: Well, a simple way of differentiating characters is just to give each of them a fixed range of quantities they can bring. eg. Framboise can bring in 1-20 items, Mozran can bring in 1-50 items, Pimimi can bring in 1-10 items. But keep those values fixed, and non-changeable. (i.e. no need for "character improvement" along those lines). You want more of something, send Mozran instead of Pimimi. Trying to "upgrade" Pimimi by giving her vehicles and carrying bags so that she can carry as much as Mozran is a waste of time and not very essential to the gameplay, I think. That's what I'm trying to say.

-Dizzy-

[Jens]

Welcome to the forum, Jens.

Yay!
Thanks

About the plot idea... I think it needs more fleshing out before we can really comment on it. ^_^ Right now, it's just a vague idea that doesn't have much detail.

Well yeah...uh can YOU think of something more pathetic then
a guy trying to
take over a game during his first post?

EDIT:Yes in fact, one who makes spelling mistakes.

Really, but since this is my second here goes nothing:
how often do you see a business major get teleported into a magical world. I mean seriously those japanese highschoolers take up all the spotlight. This alone would do for a premise.

Dull stuff follows

What I'm thinking is turning the main idea around so that the magic boutique becomes more central to the world allowing the player more influence as they progress. Simply put, this means that stores that sell magical items are much more rare thus becoming more influencial.
Magic could still be the driving force behind the world but its reasources could be limited so that the only way commoners and governments can get their hands on it are special stores. The rest could under strict watch by a higher authority (Mages?).
The player just gets more of a feeling that their involved since the choises they make have greater weight than just their own future. Like moral issues towards selling weapons or powerful magic items or using them yourself (customer charcters? maybe you refuse to support a certain group.The conflicting interests progress the story and character relationships and so forth)

The people you decide to hire could also change the outcome or have separate ending paths.
(because no one who ends up working at magic shop is
what you would call normal /plot device).

I've played the demo and it seems to be going in a different direction completly. Aiming for a feeling of a calm daily life scenario without much space for power games(and since I activly worship utawarerumono thats a problem).

Thats all I got really. I don't think making this stuff up would be that hard, but building something of this scale seems troublesome at least and as
this isn't my game I can't force anything. I'm just saying what I like.

[dizzcity]

Hmm... as far as I can tell, this can technically be done with the event/quest structure that monele has proposed, although it would require quite a lot of work in writing and careful scripting. After all, if monele's going to release it as a mod-able game, then people could create different versions of the plot and the end-user can choose which things to integrate and which to leave out. (Heck, I'm pretty sure I can even work in a mecha scenario if I really had the desire to do it - which I don't. )

But you're right in saying that the game's atmosphere and feel is very much of a day-to-day ordinary magic kind of thing. Still, Utawarerumono started in the same way too, with a simple village life before he got involved in politics. So it's possible to twist the plot to make it work. I think.

Note: If we completely separate gameplay from plot, even in the first release, that provides an interesting case study. You'll have characters with abilities and a gameplay system, but the explanations of their backgrounds, personalities and the story events can be swapped around as the user likes. If, let's say, a whole lot of people contribute story events and plotlines to this, we may end up with something like a "Choose Your Own Plot" game, where the user can pick entire mod files such as "Workplace Romance", "Political Struggle", "The Wonders of Nature", "Children's Fairytale" and more to create their own unique story experience. (Sort of like the Neverwinter Nights mod community, I guess)

-Dizzy-

[musical74]

Welcome to the forums, Jens!

DizzCity bringing up the mods and the *choose your own plot* brings an interesting idea: how well would this work? Granted, we are getting ahead of ourselves, but if monele likes the idea of it...well? What do you think, monele? What's the likelyhood of having mods for this?

Somehow, the idea of a mecha scenario in here just seems WRONG...

I think Dizzy has the right idea on relative amounts on gathering. Pimimi, being a tiny faerie, wouldn't be able to hold all that much...Framboise can hold more than Pimimi but huge loads would be too much for her, so Marzon goes for the big stuff, but, he, too has a limit. I'm thinking maybe 1-20 items Total for Pimimi, 1-40 for Framboise (since she gets more than 20 on gathers occasionally) and 1-70 for Marzon...before you give Pimimi a little cart which allows her to add 50 to her total. I'll disagree with Dizzy in that it would be good for at least Pimimi and Framboise to get stuff to allow for more carrying capacity, in case you get a massive demand for weak heal AND weak cure AND Bull's Strength...so you would need the girls to power up to allow for the increased demand. Marzon? He'd probably say *I don't need any help!* =)