Magical Boutique

[Jens]

Welcome to the forums, Jens!

An adequate response would be:

DizzCity bringing up the mods and the *choose your own plot* brings an interesting idea: how well would this work? Granted, we are getting ahead of ourselves, but if monele likes the idea of it...well? What do you think, monele? What's the likelyhood of having mods for this

Hmmm that would make this more of a game template than a full project, though, I've got nothing against developing a shopkeeper genre.


The player sholdn't have to choose between plots since that makes them all look pretty superficial (you're only suffering because I told you to ).Making different games altogether would be more sensible then.
What they should be able to do is choose what they want to do in the game. Do they keep brewing medicine and employing cute girls or
start questing for powerful artifacts. This offers a stimul to keep playing if not for the gratification of wealth and riches then for the prospect of having to sell you're staff to slavers if you fail and took a big loan.

My idea was more along the lines of having a central story to focus on
(Mine was the gradual disappearance of magic and the players choice whether to use it for their own benefit, to prevent, endorse it or leave it all behind you. Enought to keep you interested in the beginning, but not for the whole game)

combined with subplots (quests as mentioned before) which would be the real core of gameplay and would be submitted by variouse sources*** and be brought into correlatoin with eachother,
like struggleing aganist an employes demonic posession <-(really cheesy example here) and the players own goals for success(starting a grocery store franchise, becoming the most famouse enchanted talores boutique in the realm,turning the store into a weapons arsenal,become a collector of Master gems or rule all countries by pulling strings).These would influence the end alot more than the main plot really since the story dosen't care what happens to the world just the boutique.
***(This is of course, impossible unless some widely spread agreements on the games background settings and then it would have a snowballs chance in hell of turning out well).

What this does is make the game more variable since the only way to keep game dynamics fresh is to gradually shift them towards something else.
I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a game that focuses on gathering berrys and flirting with staff (I really liked the beginning of utawarerumono the most). I'm saying it would be pretty monotone before long and the average player would be asking themselves: " what the hell am I playing this for?"
(unless you include H-scenes...please don't)

Like all ren'py the plot should be there, but for the player to decide how deeply to dig into it (like a RPG). Balancing game strategy with plot developments and charcter building could make up pretty much all that a game needs to stay interesting (if you throw in a few nice girls and beating stuff up).

Different approach to capacity:
Instead of having a set capacity for any skill why not have the characters have traits like strength and detection which only increase, gradually with activity, that work for several skills, but also inhibit them because no matter how skilled you are you can't lift twice you're own weight. (Strength=carrying, combat Detection=gather,search
Detection*Agility=Hunting)
Not all characters need to be able to use all skills or even have the same traits. It would just make more sense that a
certain talent would be used for more than one thing(RPG-y I know)
Teaming up with characters increases the chance of compliting the task with less limitations(the groups sum of strength -group encumbrance)

Gathering
skill*detection*rairity*randomizer*conflict=items found

Conflict would be the characters incompatiblity which would effect all tasks
and reach a value closer to 0 as it grows.Calculated as total moral (1,0 to 0,01) divided by the number of members.
Ex. member1 moral 0,8
member2 moral 1,0
conflict 0,9

Randomizer a value generally between 0,5 and 1,5.

Skill would be a precentage value which would state that a group is handicaped by nonprificient members.Once a skill is learned by either practice or studies the handicap disappiers and is replaced by a bonus if theres a specialist
Skill would be a value commonly betwween 1,00 and 0,01
A specialist could grow to 2,0
and a master 3,0
thus multiplying the end value

times group total of detection
times rairity
These values voulde be interlocked as they would be determind by
"how many items would they find per point of detection
(common items up to 10, rare ones one for hundred 0,01 or a fourth of
that depending on specialisation luck and moral,if an item is especialy rare you could set a limit of how many exist at all and disable luck)
It would probably be prudent to decrease the rairityvalue as the game progresses, maybe after a certain omunt has been gathered from one area to ensure that the number stay in three digits and that new areas be
visited(farther ,more dangerouse)

The equation comes down to
1,00skill*5'detect*0,5luck*0,9moral*10rarity=22,5~23

Framboise gathered 23 clovers,
She didn't have much luck
1*5*1*0,5*0,9=2,25 ~ 2
with rare items things are different but the trait pretty much means the whole equation short of proficiency being able to
increase the value three-fold

[monele]

I've been following the thread but since I've been sick, I wanted to wait before replying. I seem to have a mind clear enough now.

Drools~ hehe Punishment~~
Depends if Monele wants some extra scenes XD

Haha ... But no, really

I'd more than love to see it become a group project with quests, codes, artwork and such being freely submittable.

Even though I'd be more than happy to make a simple game, I do realize the power of modding and since it shouldn't be too hard, I want Magical Boutique to be moddable. Yet, I don't know about it being a "group project". More on this later.

Anyway preventing the storyline from diluting should be fairly simple considering not all magic is safe and no world is ever peaceful.
You could end up as a anything from a blackmarket or a government owned supplier for armaments to front for espionage or who knows.
Monopolise the world via the übermenschly power of capitalism.

Sounds like parts of things I've planned. But not *exactly*.

Man I wanna cowrite this thing ;_;

Well, really, that's the whole purpose of moddability. You don't have to cowrite, you'll just write your own mod for it .

Events and Quests: Had to read through it three times, but I think I finally understand your quest and event model, monele. Looks good. I think it's workable, and scalable as well. It's basically a series of events happening at specific times, triggered by specific variables, and which return a value of True/False that can be used as triggers or conditions for the next event. Not very dynamic, but it doesn't have to be, since this should be a game first, and a storytelling engine second. I can work with that.

dizzcity, what I presented is only an example, of course. It's not all fleshed out yet and you've already given new ideas such as gathering events (I only planned to have events independant of everything else, happening always at a precise moment of a turn).
It means that if there is something missing, there is probably a chance that I'll add it to the engine.
As of *now*, all characters are moddable (from the hero to any worker, all their stats and pictures), all ingredients are moddable (picture, icon, stats), all locations are moddable (map picture, location names and stats). Same thing for potions and recipes. The only thing that isn't directly moddable is the gameplay... the rules, per se.

Reward/Punishment: The simplest (and most feasible) option, in my opinion, is to turn them into random events, with varied effects on character relationships. There are only two types of events - "Character does well" or "Character screws up". Within each event, there are two choices - either "Do something" (i.e. reward/punish) or "Do nothing". Depending on your choice, different variables will change. This can be scripted under events.

Example: A "Character Does Well" Event (-snip example-)

Sounds nice. As I said, I'll just have to add gathering events (or actually, task events) and this should be possible. All dialogues and menus and anything will be in the event script... which means you can do anything Ren'Py allows you to.

Capacity: Well, a simple way of differentiating characters is just to give each of them a fixed range of quantities they can bring. eg. Framboise can bring in 1-20 items, Mozran can bring in 1-50 items, Pimimi can bring in 1-10 items. But keep those values fixed, and non-changeable. (i.e. no need for "character improvement" along those lines). You want more of something, send Mozran instead of Pimimi.

I understand your point but I'm really scared that, through evolution, one of your character *would* be able to gather hundreds of one common ingredient... And yet, you couldn't get this because the character hasn't enough capacity. At first it isn't a problem, as you won't even reach that limit... but later, it could become frustrating. And even if Mozran can gather hundreds of ingredients and bring them back, he probably won't be able to gather the same things as Framboise (some gatherers are better at plants, other at minerals, others at animals, etc...).
I'm not saying there *will* be vehicles or bigger bags, but...

The player just gets more of a feeling that their involved since the choises they make have greater weight than just their own future. Like moral issues towards selling weapons or powerful magic items or using them yourself (customer charcters? maybe you refuse to support a certain group.The conflicting interests progress the story and character relationships and so forth)

Very very strangely, I notice I'm not really going towards an epic mindset with this game (all my other projects are of epic proportions...). I actually like the idea of a more quiet life. Think of Tokimeki Memorial, The Sims... I also want to focus on relationships (not just love, but friendship and rivalry too). That's another of my has-to-be-in-a-game things ^.^;.
Yet... it doesn't mean there won't be moral issues. I actually want this to be part of some of the story paths. I think I explained it once already : the game will have multiple linear paths when it comes to the story. When conditions are met, the first event will be triggered. Unless it's a flavor event, you'll get a quest and will need to succeed. You fail ? Then this story path is probably closed forever (probably a good incentive to succeed ^^). If you do succeed, you get to the next mission and so on. Reading the squirrel example, as silly as it is, is a good way to understand this .
But since you seem to like darkest aspects of the story, I can tell you that one of the planned paths has to do with poisons. And it's up to the player to accept these missions or not. If you do and go on and on, chances are that you will end up on the dark side.
You might see a parallel with Princess Maker 2 where your daughter can take the paths of adventurer, scholar, hostess, princess... and many more. There's just not much story behind them. I want a bit more story, hence something more linear and in multiple steps.

The people you decide to hire could also change the outcome or have separate ending paths.
(because no one who ends up working at magic shop is
what you would call normal /plot device).

If magic is common in this world (and it is, kinda), it could be just as natural as working at McDonals (if that's... natural, you tell me). Anyway, yes, people from your team could also decide on what happens. For now, I don't really plan to have removeable workers (ones that would quit or just never be hired) because it makes story writing really difficult (believe me, I've tried @_@). But still, I want them to be there and be important. I hope to be able to give a story path to a lot of them, just as I want to give one to the restaurant owner and other characters that would usually just be mere secondary characters.
It's still a lot of work for one man, so that's where *you* guys can butt in and add to the product.
I'm reminded of Morrowind and its modding community, suddenly turning regular shop keepers into full quest givers. You just add events, make a story path out of them, and there you go.

I've played the demo and it seems to be going in a different direction completly. Aiming for a feeling of a calm daily life scenario without much space for power games(and since I activly worship utawarerumono thats a problem).

It's true that Magical Boutique is going towards the fairy-tale way. At least in its overall mood. As I said above, though, there might be dark paths. Lots of possibilities there, except that the main gameplay will still be about gathering and brewing.
I did like what I saw from the Utamono anime, even if it was a bit too "real violence" for me (eh...), and I think I would enjoy the game a lot (tactical RPG, right?). But you're really asking the author of Sesame Street to turn it into Dragon Ball... or something like that .
While there *will* be wars in the story... while there might be violence... I don't plan to make it the main aspect of the game. MagBou should be a game where you can play for one year (in-game) and end up leaving the shop to Framboise's care to marry Eladorya, the cute florist...... or play for 3 years and end up deciding of the fate of two countries with your magic. I sense that would play for the last part... but others here will certainly play for the first one ^.^
Again, if something's missing, you might mod it in

Hmm... as far as I can tell, this can technically be done with the event/quest structure that monele has proposed, although it would require quite a lot of work in writing and careful scripting. After all, if monele's going to release it as a mod-able game, then people could create different versions of the plot and the end-user can choose which things to integrate and which to leave out. (Heck, I'm pretty sure I can even work in a mecha scenario if I really had the desire to do it - which I don't. Razz)

Absolutely. The fact that the story is separated from the gameplay (as opposed to a regular VN) gives great freedom. At least I hope so ^^. You're also right about the daunting task of making such stories. That's what I'd rather concentrate on the ones I have at heart, and let others add to it with other genres. Let me remind you all that the game is far from finished... and it's still a long way ^^;... So the most important for me is motivation. Your interest for this is very thrilling and I sense a lot of potential for the story aspect, so... so far so good .

I'm not sure one could have "tickable" plots (even though assembling events in story paths could allow for this) but you could definitely *add* to the original game, or completely rewrite it.
You're joking about mechas but I think it's actually feasible . Ingredients become materials (iron, energies, fuel, alloys), recipes become blueprints, potions become mechs, workers... well... are just mechanics/engineers now. Change the backgrounds, the characters... There, a complete change of mood, but still the same engine.

If, let's say, a whole lot of people contribute story events and plotlines to this, we may end up with something like a "Choose Your Own Plot" game, where the user can pick entire mod files such as "Workplace Romance", "Political Struggle", "The Wonders of Nature", "Children's Fairytale" and more to create their own unique story experience. (Sort of like the Neverwinter Nights mod community, I guess)

NWN being another big inspiration for this ^^. While, again, I see all mods as additive more than exclusive (though it might require a bit more work on my side), this is a good example. Let the player play the game, make his choices, and end up on a path that should fit his mood.

It might seem strange, but I want my parents to be able to play this thing and enjoy it. They already like the demo version and I know it's because it's a lot more friendly than what I usually show them (mechas, sci-fi, medieval wars ?...). When I talked about the possibility of having the dark poison path, I felt the thrill disappear. That's just not their thing. So yea, even if I don't want this to become an awful mess of plots, I do want a result that lets you take rather different paths. Ones that are close to people, others that could be epic.

DizzCity bringing up the mods and the *choose your own plot* brings an interesting idea: how well would this work? Granted, we are getting ahead of ourselves, but if monele likes the idea of it...well? What do you think, monele? What's the likelyhood of having mods for this?

Obviously, I'm all for it ^.^

Somehow, the idea of a mecha scenario in here just seems WRONG...

Aww :3

before you give Pimimi a little cart which allows her to add 50 to her total. I'll disagree with Dizzy in that it would be good for at least Pimimi and Framboise to get stuff to allow for more carrying capacity, in case you get a massive demand for weak heal AND weak cure AND Bull's Strength...so you would need the girls to power up to allow for the increased demand.

My point, really ^^. And those who don't like this can always remove vehicles from the shops in their mods

The player sholdn't have to choose between plots since that makes them all look pretty superficial (you're only suffering because I told you to Evil or Very Mad ).Making different games altogether would be more sensible then.
What they should be able to do is choose what they want to do in the game. Do they keep brewing medicine and employing cute girls or
start questing for powerful artifacts. This offers a stimul to keep playing if not for the gratification of wealth and riches then for the prospect of having to sell you're staff to slavers if you fail and took a big loan.

You really want this to be dramatic, uh?
But you're right, I'd also like the player to implicitely choose his plot inside the game. Not at the beginning. One could change his mind, or suddenly discover that, hey... the florist is actually more interesting than these darn political issues!
Oh and, yes, there will be artifacts. These will be created through rituals. I think I talked about this.

and the players own goals for success(starting a grocery store franchise, becoming the most famouse enchanted talores boutique in the realm,turning the store into a weapons arsenal,become a collector of Master gems or rule all countries by pulling strings).

Really the kind of various endings I'd like to provide. The way you play will determine the opportunities you get... hence the endings.

I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy a game that focuses on gathering berrys and flirting with staff (I really liked the beginning of utawarerumono the most). I'm saying it would be pretty monotone before long and the average player would be asking themselves: " what the hell am I playing this for?"
(unless you include H-scenes...please don't)

Well, in that regard, playing the demo isn't the best to get a feeling for the final product. There is almost no story. I have barely started planning them after all. Even characters are only vague ideas (Marzon, Pimimi and so on are all invented on the fly for the examples... even though I think I'll keep a few of them).
Monotony will only be there if the game only offers gameplay. That gameplay *is* monotonous. It's turn after turn. 3 in game months are usually enough to bore me to death. That's when the story comes in and gives purpose to that whole thing. Either you want to get closer to the highest figures of the kingdom by becoming famous, or you want to help people, or you only have eyes for one of your gatherers... who knows? The point is that, instead of having a main plot at once, I think it would be interesting for it to appear through the quests. The player should naturally pick paths that seem interesting to him.

Oh, and no, no H-scenes (unless it's modded in ^^; )

(if you throw in a few nice girls and beating stuff up).

Nice girls, check... Beating stuff up... uhh, unless you count the bodyguards fighting thieves and/or monsters... no . I don't plan to have any RPG-like fights in this, sorry.

because no matter how skilled you are you can't lift twice you're own weight.

Antania, duchess of the Formicans, will have to prove your wrong ^.^

(Stats stuff)

Mm, still a bit too sick to absorb this ^^;... This is not final but I'd rather keep things simple. I understand the realism behind general stats influencing multiple activities but it adds another layer of maths which would make balancing difficult (at least for me XD). Most characters will probably only have 2 or 3 talents anyway.

About groups : so far, the only planned thing is to add a bodyguard to a gatherer/scholar/merchant. Just as you would give a sword to your RPG character. I'll see wether a lone gatherer can at least *try* to defend himself, or has to be guarded to have a chance. If included, the other thing part of a group would be the vehicle.


Phew... posts are getting longer and longer @_@...

[Jens]

But you're really asking the author of Sesame Street to turn it into Dragon Ball... or something like that

This just made my day.

Again, if something's missing, you might mod it in Wink

And this kids is why you learn Phyton BEFORE commenting on someones game.

You really want this to be dramatic, uh? Wink

I shalt be modulating this ins nonrecognition
Mwahahaha..*cought*
No seriously I was trying to uproot an original idea in favor of my own
sick needs.I see now that this was wrong and that all true corruption must be imposed through sequels.

If you do and go on and on, chances are that you will end up on the dark side.

MINE!

For now, I don't really plan to have removeable workers

I agree that its a pain to write an event without the cast but I was thinking more along the lines of having vital characters stick around regardless of preferance and 2 or 3 bonus characters that you either hook up with or don't. They wouldn't really influence things as much unless you focused your attention on them(you know the type if you ever played any good Final Fantasy i.e. 6 or 7)

As for ritual artifacts.I feel~mnyeh
I'm probably stuck in my LARPer (not that I ever...) ways and can't get over the thought that powerful magicks should be sought after not made friends for...yeah defintly nerdy.Maybe instead of selling them you could
go looking for a predestined owner(selling excalibure for the highest bidder just seems akward ya know)
P.S. edited the stats stuff

Phew... posts are getting longer and longer @_@...

...sorry

[monele]

This just made my day

Sorry, really, but I just can't go the opposite way of what I had in mind ^^. I understand the sadness of seeing a game going a way you don't want it too, though, hence the possible inclusion of a few darker paths and the modding to let anything happen.

And this kids is why you learn Phyton BEFORE commenting on someones game.

When it comes to stats, all you need to do is follow the examples that will be provided for modding. It's all about changing values, not rewriting a game engine.
As for events, it's more about learning Ren'Py than Python itself. I really don't think it'll be hard.

No seriously I was trying to uproot an original idea in favor of my own
sick needs.I see now that this was wrong and that all true corruption must be imposed through sequels.

Right XD. Magical Boutique II - Gathering the Roots of Evil.

I agree that its a pain to write an event without the cast but I was thinking more along the lines of having vital characters stick around regardless of preferance and 2 or 3 bonus characters that you either hook up with or don't. They wouldn't really influence things as much unless you focused your attention on them(you know the type if you ever played any good Final Fantasy i.e. 6 or 7)

I've thought about bonus characters, but if they're removeable, it means they will take only a small part in the story, hence not be very interesting ("yet another worker")... which kinda beats the concept, I think... Or they would be very interesting (incentive to get them) but it'll be difficult to make without them in the game.
I'll have to see how I can go about doing this.

As for ritual artifacts.I feel~mnyeh
I'm probably stuck in my LARPer (not that I ever...) ways and can't get over the thought that powerful magicks should be sought after not made friends for...yeah defintly nerdy.Maybe instead of selling them you could
go looking for a predestined owner(selling excalibure for the highest bidder just seems akward ya know)

I still haven't though it through, so it could change. My main idea is that I wanted some sort of second/advanced part of the game, following the same gameplay idea, but adding the relationship factor.
In a Ren'Ai VN, all you ever do is focus on the girl you want to get and being generally inconsiderate to others, which I find kinda strange. Anyway, here I want something that has to do with how *other* characters feel about each other.
You said "artifacts" and I thought "here's something that could come from rituals", but it doesn't have to.
The idea for rituals is that it requires high level ingredients (stones/gems/souls/energies) and more than 1 "brewer". Success depends on talent but mostly on relationships. Everyone must be in sync.

Rituals being very high level, they won't be as casual as gathering ingredients and making potions. They will almost always be part of the storylines, and the results will often be huge. You could invoke characters or magical weapons for example.

(about posts getting longer) ...sorry

Lol, it's not you . It's me not replying for a while and suddenly having a lot to discuss

[Jens]

I've thought about bonus characters, but if they're removeable, it means they will take only a small part in the story, hence not be very interesting ("yet another worker")... which kinda beats the concept, I think... Or they would be very interesting (incentive to get them) but it'll be difficult to make without them in the game.
I'll have to see how I can go about doing this.

Not necessarily a charcter can be very interesting while being completly useless.Like hiding a foregin princess, that could lead to a unique ending
(You wll not get anything less pompous out of me, sorry).They can also be useful without being vtal, like being able to brew secret potions that you wouldn't get otherwise but don't really need since you can do just as well
by working on your heal recipe. They should be rewarded and not inseperably bound to the game(if you don't get them just level you're crew more).Also their entire contribution to the main plot could be summed up as 1-2 sentances added during story sequences based on True/False statements. It's been done over and over in RPGs. I alwayse hated it, why am I fighting for it now?

You said "artifacts" and I thought "here's something that could come from rituals", but it doesn't have to.
The idea for rituals is that it requires high level ingredients (stones/gems/souls/energies) and more than 1 "brewer". Success depends on talent but mostly on relationships. Everyone must be in sync.

Rituals being very high level, they won't be as casual as gathering ingredients and making potions. They will almost always be part of the storylines, and the results will often be huge. You could invoke characters or magical weapons for example.

Offerings?Summonings?Divinations?
There are dozens of things that could make the ritual a driving force for the plot and bestow boons on the boutiques inhabitance.
The artifact idea meshes pretty well with what I had in mind about
journeying to find special clientele(responsible marketing,remember this is fantasy).

EDIT:

his is not final but I'd rather keep things simple. I understand the realism behind general stats influencing multiple activities but it adds another layer of maths which would make balancing difficult

This is based on the presumption that the game will demand that characters
need to fulfill tasks other than their default commands.You couldn't really use gathering lvl for a replacement in a mission event that needs caution?

As for rituals:
How would they be triggered.Would you need a character talent or would it be an event that happens after a certain amount of time or relationship lvl.
And if it means plot development what could possibly motivate characters
to go through with it(I certainly wouldn't want any such responsibility).
That is if the player can choose when and how to preform it,wouldn't they need a reason, to know whether it was worth it?

Could they be more significant then mere routine, a duty?An initiativ to continue business.(I'm thinking a character that demands a bimothly magical experiment for provided services).It dosen't seem very solid if it progresses the story but you don't NEED to do it. (Maybe a deux ex machina for any difficult quests?)
I mean, it could work for a game with a laidback atmosphere, but wouldn't this make events even harder to manage and any plot completly directionless?

[musical74]

Looking at the way you wanted to script the Mecha scenario, monele, maybe it wouldn't be so bad here. Just the idea of magic and machinery seemed odd...however it worked SO well in Final Fantasy 6

Let's not forget Magical Boutique III - Returning to the Light.

*Wonders what would happen if Terra Branford were to visit the Magical Boutique (hey, Terra's an half-esper, magic's her thing)...how would the staff react?* By this, I mean are you going to have the sales just be *we sold this* as it is in the demo, or have faces with the sales? (Thinking Dragon Warrior 4 in the Taloon Scenario) Do you want to deal with this, or just leave it as it is? Another thing I thought about was if you have VIP visiitors...say the King were to visit your humble shop. How does the staff respond? Or have an exceptionally beautiful half esper named Terra visit...does the owner kind of fawn over her? Or have an exceptionally handsome man show up...does Framboise really get all flirty? Or is this all just idle thought, because the faces of the buyers is too hard to deal with?

No hentai scenes: I prefer this. There are times when, I swear, a H-scene is put in a game for the sake of putting it in a game. There's no rhyme or reason for the scene, but they put it in anyway. Sort of like watching a scene in a movie and thinking *what was the point of that whole scene?*

Regarding relationships: Was also wondering what happens if the player were to, as an example, go to the cute florist and buy a dozen roses. The player in turn gives them to Framboise as a *I want to be nice to you* gesture. Pimimi is in the room when this happens. Would Framboise's relationship to you increase (you gave her a gift) while Pimimi's relationship to you diminish (she's jealous you didn't give flowers to her)? Or is this too complicated?

[F.I.A]

I am rather late myself to try this game.... but I have to say,"Another brilliant idea, Monele!"

I've been into management genre(Princess Maker and Harvest Moon being some) for quite some time till I was ultimately bored, hope yours will entertain me longer.

As for the rivalry part Musical once mentioned, I think the one which displays such behaviour might be Brave Soul. If I am not wrong, when you take on a quest or two, your rival will also take on it as well, declaring it as a race in who is able to complete it first.

As for gaps to fill in story plots, how about the time just after the shop is closed and dinner's done?

Well, I have to say that I do have an idea of a VN regarding a potion shop, but the main character is an adept instead of a master of the shop.

Good luck for you for both UP and this one, Monele!

[SIDE: I haven't played Persona:Revelation, Musical, but I did play quite a number of Shin Megami Tensei games and its spinoffs.]

[monele]

Not necessarily a charcter can be very interesting while being completly useless.Like hiding a foregin princess, that could lead to a unique ending

This could easily be a character included only in the story parts, not as a worker. In that case, anything can be done.

Also their entire contribution to the main plot could be summed up as 1-2 sentances added during story sequences based on True/False statements. It's been done over and over in RPGs. I alwayse hated it, why am I fighting for it now?

I'm not sure I like the "1 or 2 sentences" thing ^^;...

Offerings?Summonings?Divinations?
There are dozens of things that could make the ritual a driving force for the plot and bestow boons on the boutiques inhabitance.

I also like the freedom it gives

You couldn't really use gathering lvl for a replacement in a mission event that needs caution?

Mmm... but who says there will be a caution mission ? ^^;...

As for rituals:
How would they be triggered.Would you need a character talent or would it be an event that happens after a certain amount of time or relationship lvl.

I'm not sure what you mean by "triggered". To make a ritual, you first need its "recipe" (instructions). You'll need the ingredients (gems and stuff) and you'll need "brewers" to make the ritual. Then, the ritual can be done whenever you want. You just assign "ritual" as a task.
The difference with potions is that a ritual will probably be a one-time thing, and the results will mostly be story-based.

And if it means plot development what could possibly motivate characters
to go through with it(I certainly wouldn't want any such responsibility).

*shrugs*... You make it sound like a ritual is the most horrible thing to do ^^;... I just see it as part of their job. Concentrating for some time while following instructions to use the ingredients properly... there's worse

That is if the player can choose when and how to preform it,wouldn't they need a reason, to know whether it was worth it?

The player does choose. And well, the idea is that you'll get to make rituals only at particular times, related to story paths. It'll be rather obvious why you're doing these I think ^^. Even if I can think of a *few* times when the rituals would have secret results.

I mean, it could work for a game with a laidback atmosphere, but wouldn't this make events even harder to manage and any plot completly directionless?

Again, *shrugs* ^^;... What's so scary about rituals? Remember that it's a magical boutique, thriving to serve the client. Of course, you won't do a ritual for nothing or for anyone. But there *will* be times when high personalities will ask for such things and will be able to give quite the sum of money for it. Enough of an incentive?

Looking at the way you wanted to script the Mecha scenario, monele, maybe it wouldn't be so bad here. Just the idea of magic and machinery seemed odd...however it worked SO well in Final Fantasy 6

I didn't think of mixing it with magic in my example though . Just wanted to show it was possible to turn Magical Boutique into Mechanical Factory

*Wonders what would happen if Terra Branford were to visit the Magical Boutique (hey, Terra's an half-esper, magic's her thing)...how would the staff react?* By this, I mean are you going to have the sales just be *we sold this* as it is in the demo, or have faces with the sales?

For now, the idea is to have only abstract clients... Any client with a face would need to be made into an event. And *that* I plan to have ^.^. Regular clients will follow the usual routine of "I want one potion, gimme that potion". But that would be boring. Hence missions/quests/whatever. Most story paths will begin with a special client asking for something a bit out of the ordinary.

say the King were to visit your humble shop. How does the staff respond?

Planned something similar (and many others). Since this will be an event, the whole reaction will be story based. I suppose there would be many gasps and 'oooh's

Or have an exceptionally beautiful half esper named Terra visit...does the owner kind of fawn over her? Or have an exceptionally handsome man show up...does Framboise really get all flirty?

I feel Terra is a recurrent character . Yes, the owner could (actually, it could be a choice you'd make, since *you* are the owner). And I think Framboise would be more like "hahaha ^^; *blush* *trips* hahaaa o^^o;;;...".

No hentai scenes: I prefer this. There are times when, I swear, a H-scene is put in a game for the sake of putting it in a game.

Agreed. I don't mind hentai games per se, but I don't see the point of putting H for the sake of putting H. For sales some say... well fine, but I'm not selling anything myself ... (plus, I don't have enough talent to have H in anything)

Was also wondering what happens if the player were to, as an example, go to the cute florist and buy a dozen roses. The player in turn gives them to Framboise as a *I want to be nice to you* gesture. Pimimi is in the room when this happens. Would Framboise's relationship to you increase (you gave her a gift) while Pimimi's relationship to you diminish (she's jealous you didn't give flowers to her)? Or is this too complicated?

It sounds like a cute idea. I see this, again, as a possible event : the owner goes to buy flower and you're given the choice of who to offer them to. After that, it could be as simple as "the one receiving flowers = morale+20, others = morale-10". But it could also be a bit more complicated with personalities : Pimimi would get jealous, not because she loves you but because she's rather self-centered. Framboise on the other hand, wouldn't mind you giving flowers to Pimimi because she'd just find this cute... unless, maybe, she *is* in love with you already.
I'll repeat myself : anything that takes place in an event can happen in whatever way imaginable. It's Ren'Py! Pictures, text, variables... the author decides and scripts : it happens.
That's also part of why I want to have the story part separated from the game part : to allow as much freedom as possible.

I have to say,"Another brilliant idea, Monele!"

Thank you very much ^.^. I hope it will entertain you for some time

As for gaps to fill in story plots, how about the time just after the shop is closed and dinner's done?

For now, the event slot takes place right at the beginning of a turn (day). It doesn't mean everything happens right in the morning though! You can show something that happens during the afternoon... and then, the player will see the stats results of the day.
If I notice it's needed, I'll add another slot for evenings (as you suggest). Oh, and of course, as suggested by dizzcity, I'll have to add events that are triggered by tasks (Framboise gathering in the plains). But I think that last one might already be feasible as it is... except the event would be shown *before* you see all the tasks summaries. Is it a problem?

Well, I have to say that I do have an idea of a VN regarding a potion shop, but the main character is an adept instead of a master of the shop.

You might notice that the owner is part of the staff. Technically, there's nothing differenciating him from anyone else in the crew. This means one could easily make an NPC owner and a PC adept

Good luck for you for both UP and this one, Monele!

Again, thank you ^.^

[Jens]

*Wonders what would happen if Terra Branford were to visit the Magical Boutique

*Wonders what Terra Bradford would look like naked on beach during a sunset *drool*

No hentai scenes: I prefer this. There are times when, I swear, a H-scene is put in a game for the sake of putting it in a game. There's no rhyme or reason for the scene, but they put it in anyway. Sort of like watching a scene in a movie and thinking *what was the point of that whole scene?*

You guys, I was kidding <_<

Mmm... but who says there will be a caution mission ? ^^;...

Me, apparently.

I'm not sure I like the "1 or 2 sentences" thing ^^;...

Don't overwork yourself.It's quite feasible to have minor characters that only stand to effect a single ending(like a characters long lost sibling working in your group but neither of them realising it until the very end in an everlasting frustrating anticlimax of events...damn you Star Ocean, damn you! )

Regular clients will follow the usual routine of "I want one potion, gimme that potion".

Which brings us back to reputation...
(how about have:Medicine,luxuries,charms,public and shady reputations
instead of single item ones and a popularity counter.The last could just grow in time)

[monele]

*Wonders what Terra Bradford would look like naked on beach during a sunset *drool*

Who knows if we'll ever get to know ^^;...

"Mmm... but who says there will be a caution mission ? ^^;..."

Me, apparently.

Good luck in creating it

Don't overwork yourself.It's quite feasible to have minor characters that only stand to effect a single ending(like a characters long lost sibling working in your group but neither of them realising it until the very end in an everlasting frustrating anticlimax of events...damn you Star Ocean, damn you! )

I see your point, but in your example, that person is in the group anyway . That's indeed feasible. It's the case where you can play a whole game without getting some character, and in another game have him for a large part of the game.
It makes me think of Chrono Trigger where there *is* such a character, but you don't get many lines from that person. Why isn't it too much of a problem ? Because the character isn't very talkative to begin with and 90% of the game is still about fighting for XP. This makes characters present in the team not very important as long as they bring stats with them .

In MagBou's case, since it's still half-VN, the story will be more important and I don't think a character will have much depth if all he does is gather/brew stuff and *never* say anything otherwise.
Adding one liners in events is possible but rather exhausting (I've done it with UP (one of my other projects) and it seems it wasn't really worth it). Hence why I'd rather have full fledged characters. Maybe ones that don't get to star in many events if you don't trigger *their* events, but ones that I *know* are in the team and can use in dialogues.

Which brings us back to reputation...
(how about have:Medicine,luxuries,charms,public and shady reputations
instead of single item ones and a popularity counter.The last could just grow in time)

Mmm... I'm just not seeing what it brings to the gameplay. Kinda brings to the mood, but it could just be stats shown for fun. If they do influence something, I'm not sure what ô_o.

[musical74]

monele: Why, yes, I do like Terra a lot, does it show? =) However, was using Terra as an examle of VIP showing up =)

Was thinking while playing the demo...I noticed that if the unfullfilled requests were rather small - say, the unfulfilled requests were one Breath of the Just and one Fox's Cunning - the player says *it was a good day* where as if you are short a lot, he indicates that you really should make more of X potion. I KNOW it's when you were short 12 weak heals and needed more, but does that happen if you were short a few of every kind, and that total exceeds 10? How is it decided when the player says *It was a good day* versus *We need to do better at getting the potions the clients want*? Just wondering...

*wonders what the resin is used for, because it appears to have no use in the demo*

I did notice that if you get over 200 gold on a given day he says *Wow that's a lot of coins*...I do like that, it's the little things like that, that make it fun. When you have a sim like this, you want wording to be different if you sell a bunch or if no one shows up...

One other thing I was curious about...regarding the *rest* periods. Say you rest Framboise for 4 days straight. Would her morale drop a bit, because after a few days rest she's anxious to go out and gather ingredients? Obviously, you want to rest your workers, but if you rest them long enough...they get antsy and want to work. (Well, MOST people do)

Again....MUST....PLAY...THIS...GAME....

[monele]

I didn't even try to check who it was before now ^^;... I'll still have to look for pictures later ^^;

The warning about unfulfilled requests appears when you have more unfulfilled than fulfilled requests .

Resin has no purpose in this version. I'll have to think up a lot more recipes ^^;... But things will get more interesting when Pom joins in I think, too

I'll try to have quite a few of these reactions. Custom messages from each character and so on...

Yes, there *has* to be a bad side to doing nothing for a long while ^^. I'd say the character loses more and more moral after a few days of inactivity. Also, if it really lasts, they could start losing levels. Now *that's* incentive :3


In other news, I've started working on the characters, and boy am I eager to see them in-game ^.^.

[Dis]

1.) I liked you’re game. (Sorry that I write only these mooch, but I’m a busy person.)
2.) I think the pictures speak for themselves. (Don’t want to distress anyone.)

[monele]

Whoops ^^;... Nice find . This happens if you don't have enough to pay your worker. I forgot a little conversion thingie ^^;.

Hmm... I'll make a quick test run and try to post an update to fix this and other bugs that have been found since last time ^^. Probably in ~5 hours.

[monele]

Nyao! Here comes the cast ^.^ (part of it)



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