Insight [BxG]

[Pecora Z]

Although I have started on this project, I only started about 15 hours ago -.- So, it is all under major development, but I have my idea firmly rooted and now I just need some help.

I can be kind of clueless, and since this is my first time creating a VN, I will definitely need help~

Insight is just a working title for now. All names except for Azalea and Blaize are subject to change.
It follows Stephen, the player character; a lazy genius who is in his third year of high school. He is in love with Cassandra and Paige, but Cassandra does not really like him, and Paige loves him back as well, but they act more like brother and sister. Then there is Azalea, the ill girl/broken bird who is close friends with Stephen but is always in the hospital due to complications, etc. I'm also planning his male best friends, Austin and Blaize, to be obtainable as well.

Stephen volunteers at the hospital where Azalea is hospitalized for the entire story, and I hope to subvert many tropes associated with VN main characters.
Paige is a deconstruction of the Betty part of the Betty and Veronica trope.
Cassandra is a deconstruction of the Veronica part of the Betty and Veronica trope, and is also a defrosting ice queen.
Azalea is an ill girl and broken bird, but it is later revealed

she has Munchausen's and has been making herself sick to get away from her father and be with Stephen; she is in a psychosis where her father is abusive, whereas in reality he has been dead since she was 8.

Austin is a football player who messes around with Stephen. His path is difficult to open and stay on.
Blaize is the best friend of Stephen and is path is also difficult to open, but easier to stay on.

I have a general idea of what I want my characters to look like. However, I'm not exactly the best (but definitely not the worst) when it comes to art.
There will also be events and such going on, but I don't want to give away too much, especially when I'm unsure of it all.

Thank you, I'm open to any criticisms/suggestions!

[redeyesblackpanda]

Although I have started on this project, I only started about 15 hours ago -.- So, it is all under major development, but I have my idea firmly rooted and now I just need some help.

Alright, first things first, it's probably a good idea to let your idea stew for some time. What seems like a good idea right now might seem less practical later. I think you're at the stage where it's too early to look for help with art. When you want to recruit, you should have significant work to show (more that just an outline). It's a good idea to check this thread when you're considering recruiting: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 38&t=14462

Anyway... now that that's out of the way, here are some things that you may want to consider:
How long do you plan on making your VN? Will it be short? Will it be over 40 hours? It's certainly easier to start small until you get used to the medium.

Anyway, as for the idea itself, it seems like a pretty typical story, which is not necessarily a bad thing, it just means that you have to execute it well (reads, write moar gooder ). At this point, it seems that you have character descriptions, but what you've given us doesn't develop the characters that much. Simply throwing tropes together with names is often not the wisest thing. I think that in terms of ideas, we'd be more interested in the plot than the difficulty of the paths and the game play (unless you're planning on making something like a turn based strategy game, which you're not)

That all being said, I'm glad to see someone interested in doing a BxG game, and I hope you can make it a success! I definitely want to play it.

I guess, basically... more details and the writing work on the novel will help us give more feedback and get us more interested.

[Pecora Z]

Thank you

I do have to say though, in my defense, I've already started scripting everything out an this idea has been stewing for quite some time -.-

I was also unsure of just to what extent I should say about my story, considering it is just a WIP and recently started on. I'm not just throwing tropes together, but I understand why you think that, based on the information I gave. Tropes are just very well-known to me, and it helps idenify certain characteristics my characters will have; but hopefully, I will get to subvert and deconstruct those characters and make the story more interesting. Saying someone is a defrosting ice queen is easier than explaining the cliche of a person who is cold and distant at first but gradually warms up; it also allows me to (hopefully) add in quirks and other things. When I get around to writing a legitimate, long and tailored description, I will definitely not be using trope names and will have better descriptions. But I do agree with you, throwing tropes together is not wise (and not what I am doing).

I'm trying to understand my plot myself, but it's difficult when each path opens new sub-plots... think of it like a slice of life anime, there really is no plot, but events happen xD

I was also worried about it being too generic, so thank you for saying it seems like a typical story... I still need to think some of it over, and get all my ideas together.

Also, I'm not quite sure of the time length. I mean, some people are fast readers, some are not... I personally read very, very quickly and I managed to fully complete Katawa Shoujo (unlock all CGs, etc) in about 7-8 hours. But, I'm going to assume each path will be about 1-2 hours, so I guess I am looking at a 5-10 hour VN. I do plan to have at least 50,000 words, however.

Thank you for the suggestions, as well as the thread, it's really helped me sort out my ideas further

[redeyesblackpanda]

Ah, in terms of word count and play time, Katawa Shoujo was a big project with many people working on it. Creating a 7-8 hour game is a lot of work. 50,000 words is actually about 3 hours of reading time.

Plotting out your paths is a good idea. I believe it's more important to do a good job than to be original. Ideas are pretty cheap, and it's the execution that really matters. Just note that you're going to have to work harder to get the same response from a less original idea. I'm a sucker for slice of life, and I suppose my project (Eternal Memories) shows it.

It's not at all surprising that what's included in the paths varies greatly, and that there's not too much of a central plot to describe. That's not a bad thing, but it's not going to generate as much excitement initially. You just have to recognize that, and not feel bad if there doesn't seem to be much interest. If you've done a good job, people are going to become interested, so just be a bit patient.

I'd say that in the early stages, the most important thing is to write, write, write! (Once you've got a decent amount written, you can put it up here, and I'm sure plenty of us will be willing to tear it appart critique it.)

[Pecora Z]

Hah, I'm kind of expecting people to tear it apart, as it is kind of generic/typical, but I'm still worried Dx

I want to write, and I've started, it's just difficult to type up everything because scripting the game is proving more difficult than imagined @.@ I'll try to post whatever I have in a weeks time if it's good enough, because I really am slaving away over this... are there any good threads that explain the scripting process in a way for idiots to understand? XD I'm looking at all the things Ren'py has out, but some of it is difficult to understand. Or maybe I'm just not reading it all?

And thank you, I'm really just doing this to prove I can and to put something out there. But, of course I want it to be good.

[redeyesblackpanda]

CheeryMoya's writing thread is a wealth of writing information: http://lemmasoft.renai.us/forums/viewto ... 47&t=13283

Good luck with this! I'm rooting for you!

[Pecora Z]

Thank you for that, but when I say script, I meant the actual game script- as in, all the transitions, adding things, etc xD I have no problem with actually writing the dialogue, story, etc

However, all the other resources from Ren'py are proving quite helpful when I look them over enough times, and I'll always have this forum for when my script starts to become more complicated.

Thank you! I promise I will not disappoint

[redeyesblackpanda]

I see.
For that, there's the wonderful quick start guide: http://www.renpy.org/wiki/renpy/doc/tut ... Quickstart
I also recommend looking through the script of The Question, as it's sometimes easier to learn by watching: http://www.renpy.org/doc/html/thequestion.html
There's also more advanced stuff on the wiki too. For everything else, you can create a question in the Ren'Py thread, and awesome coders (or I) will try to help you.

[sciencewarrior]

Another resource I strongly recommend is rinrin's tutorial. But don't worry about coding before you have the story reasonably hammered out.

One thing you can do to make the whole project more manageable is to create a game with fewer routes and then expand it. Tsukihime was created at first with two routes, and then added three more. I think you could create a pretty good VN with Paige, Cassandra, and Azalea, and then, in a second phase, add the choices that would lead to the two other routes.

[gekiganwing]

I was also worried about it being too generic, so thank you for saying it seems like a typical story... I still need to think some of it over, and get all my ideas together.

Being creative and pursuing originality is good. It certainly seems better than just following the leaders and writing what's currently popular or profitable. But please avoid worrying too much about whether your story is wholly unique. Why do I say this? Well... because it's possible that someone has already made characters or a story that will be similar to yours. If that turns out to be true, then you will benefit by focusing on writing and gameplay design. Quality can help you, even when your ideas are coincidentally similar to what another person has created.

Deconstructionism is not a bad thing. You can take concepts apart, examine them, and apply more realism. If you want to use deconstructionism in regards to a harem story, you may well end up with a bleak alternative to cute slice-of-life stories. But if I may ask, what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Be sure to read the TVTropes article on being original. Then get writing. Good luck, hope things go well.

[Pecora Z]

Thank you for the link to rinrin's tutorial, I'll make sure to look over it when I have a reasonably sized script (it's actually coming along quite well!)

Also, for the deconstructionism, it's because it's a trademark of my writing style- I write a lot and have had a few things officially published, and now I want to start on visual novels and kinetic novels (at some point, anyways) because I play them, yet I never really give back. And I'm not trying to make my story overtly dark/bleak like much of my previous work, I mean, the dark aspect is something I'd love to do, but it just does not fit with my idea for this story. I'm trying to (as I've said before) avert and subvert common characteristics of VN characters (well, really any character -.-) such as childhood friend, the whole Betty and Veronica setup, ill girl, jock, etc. The trope names are just easier to identify with, but I'm not following the trope to a T.

I'm not quite sure what I'm trying to achieve... but that's a good thing. I guess I want a story that can be compared to others, but ultimately is different (I want to avoid cliches) and be able to read my story and enjoy it myself, because I tend to hate main characters of VN's. I also hate strong female characters. So I'll just call this my pet project lol.