Camp Handiba Development Thread

[mikey]

Wow, some analysis - I was about to make the exact same comments. No one complained about character art [on these forums], and to be honest for me the characters were very valuable, since BGs were stock images not done specifically for the game (even though they were really detailed)

One additional thing to this:

One particular general comment, about the aversion to English dubs in general, is because it doesn't work for Westerners to try to act like anime characters. Then just have them act more like in a Shakespearean play...that way even if you turned off your monitor it will sound more like a western radio drama and can stand on its own. Of course this means that the character sprites will have to look less anime.

In my recent review I actually thought the opposite - it's true that people who watch anime are used to have the high-pitched VA associated with the drawing style... BUT... actually, from the physique and characteristics, the anime style bishoujo actually resemble Western women [think the cliched Swedish model] rather than Asian women. Big eyes, long legs, full hair, tall, etc..., you know, the joke that anime women are exactly what the Japanese women aren't.

So in fact to someone who is hypothetically completely new to anime and has never had any culture associated with the style of drawing, Western languages could not at all paradoxically feel more natural.

Well, that's the theory

[Counter Arts]

A) I really SHOULDN'T do my own character art. Of course I never really wanted to anyway, so I don't think I'll have much trouble following this advice...

For character art, I wouldn't worry that much unless you just want to be more focused on other things. Why do I say this?

This was the second dojinshi VN to become an anime. I mean, look at the character art! However, I'm really wanting to buy this game actually.

EDIT: Actually just found the entire first chapter downloadable on their website.

B) No matter how long it makes the game, fully develop the characters. In Senior Year for reasons I've detailed elsewhere, I cut down the size of the game because I really wanted to support multiple endings, and because I wanted to make the voice parts manageable. I think it still made for a fun, light game, but I'm not going to be able to do that with Camp Handiba. The more serious tone will require a more serious character development. I think that folks will be more willing to put in the time now that I've shown I can deliver. But I suppose it begs the question - will people play a game with a playtime in the 40 hour range?

See answer to A. However, if you really want to, you can target both hardcore and casual players. You can do episodic content thanks to ren'py's intergame flag feature.

C) More fluid poses for the characters. Which will put even more responsibility on the artist(s), but it's going to be necessary to make sure that the game flows.

As a huge romantic, I would say that flow was a bit fast. However, my opinon here isn't that qualified.

D) Get the voice actors sooner, and try to establish some process to get the noise out of the recordings. Getting them sooner in the process isn't too hard - although it means I'll need folks who are willing to do additional lines a week or more after they are "done" with the initial script. For the noise in the recordings, I'm going to have to see what my options are. Noise Reduction in Audacity (as far as I've been able to determine) causes too many annoying artifacts to use. I'd hate to have to restrict who I use based strictly on the noise level in their recordings - but I may have to consider that this time.

I guess this would a tough one. However, I think what does matter more is that audio quality is consistent than just high quality alone. Having all so-so sound qualities is better than having some high quality voices and some not so great ones.

E) Last but not least, assume that some folks still won't like the game. Given that Senior Year was two months out of my life, and was my first game, I'm not as bothered by some of the reviews as I would be if I get the same types of reviews for Handiba. I think if I follow A-D above, that at least folks will be more likely to like it or dislike it because of the type of story it is rather than because of technical details and such.

Yeah, you made a sound choice when making this game short actually despite the critisms. You got a taste of what people would like. This is actually quite an important milestone.

For me, I'm really a spoiled person when it comes to storylines and VNs. I'm just curious to what Visual Novel exposure you have though. I had mine through anime and game synopses and window shopping at himeyashop.com.

[monele]

What's the problem with characters? I like the graphics ô_o...

DaFool might be right about overestimating... I thought my demo game lasted 2 hours and it was actually 1 hour only ^^;... Just depends how much of a fast reader you are maybe.

Voice recordings : You might want to try Goldwave's filtering. It *does* butcher the voices a bit but not *that* much. Of course, it depends how bad the original recording is. While I don't think it was bad at all, papillon's recording might have become just perfect with that filter. Julie's voice, though... no way you could change the recording-in-a-room sound :/
Also, while I tend to dislike american dubs because they're usually uninspired, I really don't think american people can't do it. Just listen at Disney's movies : they're full of great voice actors.... who happen to be *actors* to begin with. That's what lacks to people who dub animes I think. So, as long as you can put yourself in-character and can express yourself clearly, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[mikey]

Just listen at Disney's movies : they're full of great voice actors.... who happen to be *actors* to begin with.

I agree, the English VA is excellent in original productions. It all comes together, the mentality, the environment, the typically Western humor, so they fit perfectly.

That's what lacks to people who dub animes I think. So, as long as you can put yourself in-character and can express yourself clearly, there shouldn't be too much of a problem.

It might get more tricky when the anime in question is very Japanese in nature, but that's not really a problem of the VA - if you make a production that is targetted at a Japanese audience, no amount of great dub will make it as good as the original - however if a (Japanese) production is more "global", such as the famous Noir, a title accessible not just to a very niche demographic, good VA will mean that the fans in Europe will have the same experience as the fans in Japan.

So all I wanted to say is that no matter how good the VA may be, some productions just aren't suited for other languages by their nature.

But, to make the point, this has IMO absolutely nothing with being drawn in anime style, it has to do with the target audience.

Come to think of it, Noir in French... that could be a real treat.

[monele]

I agree, the English VA is excellent in original productions. It all comes together, the mentality, the environment, the typically Western humor, so they fit perfectly.

And to add to this, and more particularly to Disney's : the translations and local actors are also so good that it's the only movies I prefer to watch *dubbed*. They make a great job of translating every joke or at least replacing them... and even adding some whenever it's possible to make up for other lost ones. So yea, even dubs could be great, if there was just a little more work put into them... ^^

[EwanG]

Just to reward those who have stuck through the drama of this thing so far...

Attached/below is the Main Screen for Camp Handiba. The good artwork is courtesy of the US Army, the rest is my fitting it in.

I say main screen because there will be times when this will serve as a true map - pick where you want to go explore next.

Over the next week or so, I'll probably have a couple backgrounds I want to post up here to get y'alls opinion. I'm going a different route for the backgrounds, and want to see if it looks acceptable or not.

Thanks again,
Ewan

[Counter Arts]

Coolness! A "Da Capo" map screen! If you want a few (not all) details on how the "Da Capo" system works, ask. You may want to "borrow" their ideas a bit.

[EwanG]

Well the expression lists (35 total or something) have already been listed in the Superdoll thread, so if you cannot wait for the Superdoll (eta June/July), then you may pick the expressions already so the artist can have a head start.

Well, the artist who was going to start working on my characters just took a look at their requirements for school for the next year, and wisely backed out.

That being the case, I hope that if you get ready to do even a beta of Superdoll earlier, you'll keep me in mind. Because I suspect that's the only way this gets done within my budget

Imagine this must be how independent filmmakers feel... if only I could win the lottery and just pay for everything...

Of course, then you have money riding on the line, so you start to let that influence some of your choices. Not to mention that now you're working with professionals who may have a different vision of the character or the background than you do... and how much money are you willing to pay for them to redo it? And so on...

So guess it's never actually easy

[EwanG]

Voice recordings : You might want to try Goldwave's filtering. It *does* butcher the voices a bit but not *that* much.

I don't believe Goldwave has a free version does it? That being the case, do you know which Goldwave filter you would use? There may be an equivalent in Audacity.

Thanks,
Ewan

[EwanG]

OK, below are some examples of the background style I'm looking to use for Camp Handiba. Comments appreciated.

[musical74]

Please keep in mind I am NOT an artist, so take my comments accordingly.

The cave: Very good! It doesn't really show anything, but at the same time, it's darker inside, so maybe it's safe...and maybe not...does the player want to go deeper into the cave? I can see so many ways to deal with the cave, and, with one exception, they'd all be funny...this is good =)

The *welcome cabin*: I like this. It shows as a *welcome to the camp* with the flags flying, and that makes the character feel more welcome. Question on this: do the flags mean anything? Just wondering.

The crazy sky: Ummmmm I'm missing something. How is it crazy? Did it suddenly get darker and that's why it's a crazy sky? Based on the title of it I was excepting something foreboding but didn't feel any of that...this picture, at least for me, requires a little info on WHY it's a crazy sky.

These do look good though =)

[EwanG]

The crazy sky: Ummmmm I'm missing something. How is it crazy? Did it suddenly get darker and that's why it's a crazy sky? Based on the title of it I was excepting something foreboding but didn't feel any of that...this picture, at least for me, requires a little info on WHY it's a crazy sky.

Attached is an alternate version of this. I thought this version might be a bit "over the top" which is where I came up with the previous version. But perhaps this does a better job of implying that something's going on...

[musical74]

I think the alternate does a better job of *something screwy is happening*...a green sky makes you wonder what's happening. The first crazy sky all I could guess was that it got dark suddenly...this one you KNOW something is happening...

Depending on how you want to set the stage, the first crazy sky picture will work fine...I just needed a little background on why it was crazy. The green sky is obvious, but...maybe by having the sky like it is in the first, with a good stpry attached, will make it better than having the second, which doesn't really need a story except *something's happened*

[monele]

No, unfortunately, Goldwave isn't free. You could just try to demo version to see if it's any better than Audacity (it might not, I'm just used to Goldwave probably). In my version, the filter is found as an icon in the toolbar, or in the menu Effects > Filter > Noise Filter.

The idea is that you first select a part of the sound recording which has only silence... that means it will actually have any background noise the recording has. Then you Copy that part (it's supposed to be 1 or 2 seconds long for best results I think).
At that point you can run the filter by specifying you want to "Use Clipboard" for the Reduction Envelope. Every other value should be okay for a simple test... Of course, the more noise in the recording, the less good the results will be :/

[PyTom]

A similar effect is in Audacity, as Effect > Noise Removal... .