Lemma Soft Forums

Yes, it'll probably be cluttered. I'll have to find a way to avoid this... but I'm not sure what it will be :/...
What I'm pretty sure of for now is that there won't be more than... mmmm... 9 or 10 employable characters, so this should fit (it's a matter of sizing the icons). For locations, there will be more but I'll use a grid, so it'll be multiple lines of locations. This should hold up to 30 locations easily (though it's not needed). And finally, possible actions will shouldn't exceed 5 per place+character I'd say. It's often a sequence of tasks (discover dryads > investigate > be friends) that replace each other as you progress.
We should still clearly see the chara on the left, with the right half partly obscured by this interface. I might try another fake attempt to see if it's awful or not ^^;

The map... as an interface... seems not to be necessary anymore. But since I don't think MB is MB without a map, I thought I could use it to introduce each resolution part :
- Task interface, you assign tasks
- End Turn
- Resolve phase goes through characters (MB1 style), showing the full body character on the left, maybe a third of background behind, and on the right, the map, zooming on the actual location.
- The actual VN scene takes place

Again, it's for the arcade feel (think "character introduction in a fighting game"). Seeing the map would let you get an idea of where each place is... but it's not mandatory to play (since distances are not important anymore).

monele wrote:- Would you rather be able to choose the look of the manager or have him predefined and more fleshed out?
(along with this, do you want to still be able to change the hero's name and the shop's name?)

Hmm, I'd rather have him pre-defined and more fleshed out, but the alternative isn't bad. I didn't particularly enjoy changing the shop's name before, as the sign still said the Magical Boutique, but if that were fixed, I would like it. I would suggest only adding the ability to change the hero's name if you add the customization of his looks.

monele wrote:- Would you rather keep the full body pictures during events or have smaller thumbnails with various expressions?

I'm not sure what you mean, but I know I had no problems with this before, and I liked how it was. If you mean when the dialog goes over the whole screen, I think the thumbnails would be cool. But, if in the normal fashion, I'd say the full body pictures.

monele wrote:And the killer question :
- Would you like more emphasis on the gameplay or on the events/quests?

I would say more emphasis on events/story, then quests, and then gameplay—in that order.

Adding more emphasis on gameplay could be cool, but it would make it less like a visual novel, and thus might disenchant some who had gone into it with the term visual novel in mind. I think the gameplay as it was, but with extra story, will really enhance the game aspects, anyway.

Well, there are my current votes for the poll. Thanks!

Yeah, if I'm quiet it's *things are fine, keep it up* so don't worry too much if I'm active in the other boards and this one's silent

What can I say? I love those of other types (Even if the fairy won't love me back...think the elflady and the catgirl will?)

Most of the stuff looks great...just hope Fram doesn't regret not checking out the shadows when she went looking for blueberries!

I didn't particularly enjoy changing the shop's name before, as the sign still said the Magical Boutique

Noted. I think there won't really be any customization this time around, so...

If you mean when the dialog goes over the whole screen, I think the thumbnails would be cool.

I've shown how it looks in screenshots : you get thumbnails of the characters on the screen, showing faces. They're not next-to-text thumbnails.


I would say more emphasis on events/story, then quests, and then gameplay—in that order.

Gameplay is going thinner and thinner, so this should be granted ^^;

(Even if the fairy won't love me back...think the elflady and the catgirl will?)

The catgirl will be all over you even if you don't want to XD... And the elf lady will certainly like you, in a quiet and reserved kind of way ^^.

Hmm, I'd rather have him pre-defined and more fleshed out

I kept that one for the end since it's my new dilemma :
MB2 will show events of what happens to your workers when they're on the field. This means I can't keep going with Dalma narrating, since he's not there. Yet, I like having a few glances at what your workers think, so it's sort of a 3rd point of view, yet with some thoughts displayed between brackets (àla comic books?)

And now I just thought of how I'd write a Dalma scene and realized going full 1st person view might be strange (since it's 3rd person the other times). So the logical reflex would be to go 3rd person all the time, right? But I realize it might mean losing the usual connection to the protagonist. And at the same time, it seems like an interesting opportunity to try this full-3rd-person concept. I've always wondered if we could make a game/VN that tells the story of multiple characters the anime/manga way. You won't always know what they think... and sometimes you will. Freedom for the writer to put surprises in this way ^^. For example, you might see Pom thinking about how something is surprising, but it doesn't mean you'll read in his thoughts that he actually knows the person that just entered the boutique.

Ahem... I hope this is clear enough ^^;...

A little problem remains... when it comes to romances and such. Obviously, Dalma is supposed to be the main character and most romances are meant for him... but will it feel like playing a romance for yourself... or playing a romance for Dalma? Will it still feel rewarding if you get a romance with Dalma or will it feel "yeah, eh, good for him >.>..."? ^^;...
Another point : this will allow me to introduce secondary characters romance too (I don't know if I will but I could). It's always you playing for the romances to work out, but we end up with the same question : will it feel rewarding?
I suppose managing to put Pom and Framboise together, for example, might feel rewarding... but I felt a lot of MB1 players wanted Framb for themselves, so...... ^^;... If Dalma gets her, is it better? Does it feel more like *you* got her, instead of Pom?

== EDIT ==

Note that going 3rd person mode also means you would see Dalma's face as a thumbnail, just as others, and that he would have visible expressions. It could make the connection harder (though it worked in Gloria) but it'll allow me to make visual humour more easily ^^

Go 3rd person.
Things to iron out when in 3rd person:
*Who?* is actually making the decisions (i.e. during visual novel menu choices)
*Make sure to have a narrated line whenever it's needed, describing actions and feelings, but not thoughts.

I already have narration in the few scenes I've written. It came naturally. But I'm less sure about the "no thoughts" policy you're suggesting.
Framboise : "(I must stay quiet, lest they hear me!)"
VS
"Framboise figures she'd better stay quiet, lest they hear her."

Is there really that much of a difference? ô_o... I'd rather limit actual descriptions to things I can't show with pictures or express through dialogues.

The above example would be for a "Framboise only" scene... where it might be kinda boring if Framboise can't "speak out" her thoughts. If the scene is more Dalma centric, though, maybe you won't really get to know what Framboise is thinking.

As for who is making decisions... It's technically Dalmaryon... but the workers will make spontaneous decisions at times too, so it might be better to think of decisions as a... implicit group decision of sorts?

Well In a wya I see where you're going.. having kinda a manga/history story.. where your decisions will influence a bit of the outcome but to sound more like action of the charas per se. I like the idea.. the only problem I feel though is thet you'll have to limit Dalma on the "shadow-like form" and give him a form of his own. Why? Well it may just be my way of thinking... but people will have a hard time of basing expressions and feelings to a faceless character if it's supposed to be 3rd person like... at least that's my point of view ^^;

Also on group decisions.. and taking example of Frambroise/pom relationship.. that will lead to clashes and breaks on the team therefore causing disruptions at some point that need to be iron out. That give points on the humane factor... I recall the conversation we had on visiting places some charas dislike or have something related to their past for interaction.. remember that monele? SO i Feel it'll work kinda similiar on this... well that's what i make out of your idea anyways *smiles*

Oh yes, if Dalma is going to be a fleshed out character, he *will* have a sprite and actual face . No worries.

Not sure what you mean by clashes and breaks related to Framb/Pom though ô_o...

== EDIT ==

Now wondering if subs are the right thing... I mean, subs at a fixed position without a name tag. Here's a new idea inspired by LucasArts games :




1, 3 : The character say panel would either be replaced by a nice frame, or removed altogether, leaving only text.
2 : here's the current Dalmaryon panel (no portrait = text at bottom). This is meant to disappear and will only be used if someone unseen talks.
4 : Regular narration. This will stay as it is.

If this is accepted, I'll probably change the speaking font to something smaller.

monele wrote:A little problem remains... when it comes to romances and such. Obviously, Dalma is supposed to be the main character and most romances are meant for him... but will it feel like playing a romance for yourself... or playing a romance for Dalma? Will it still feel rewarding if you get a romance with Dalma or will it feel "yeah, eh, good for him >.>..."? ^^;...
Another point : this will allow me to introduce secondary characters romance too (I don't know if I will but I could). It's always you playing for the romances to work out, but we end up with the same question : will it feel rewarding?
I suppose managing to put Pom and Framboise together, for example, might feel rewarding... but I felt a lot of MB1 players wanted Framb for themselves, so...... ^^;... If Dalma gets her, is it better? Does it feel more like *you* got her, instead of Pom?

Wild. I might not have the same thoughts as other people, but when I played MB1 I imagined Dalma to be at least ten years older than the others. Romance with him seemed desired, yet it seemed like it would have been weird with Framboise (also since she works for him; I don't know why, but it seems weird). I might suggest adding another character, neighbor, or someone for him—or some such, if it can be done without making things worse mood-wise/story-wise.

Finally someone who understands this ... With people asking for a dateable Framboise, I always wondered what I messed up... Framboise's apparent age or Dalmaryon's undeclared age? XD. There are indeed "neighbors" meant for Dalmaryon. And if there ever is a Dalma-Framb relationship, it'd probably be more of a "let's take care of MagBou together" and after quite a few years "let's marry" ^^;.

In sad news, my computer has just gone crazy ("CMOS checksum error") after a crazy crash (freeze + "krrrblipppipppp!"). If I'm lucky, it's just the motherboard battery to change.... otherwise it's the whole motherboard or some other seemingly unrelated piece of hardware.
A big backup has been done so projects will be fine. But not having a working computer would seriously dampen my motivation... which would be a *BAD* time... grr... So let's hope for the best ~_~;...

Well, at the end of MB1 Dalma says he's in his early 20s so maybe people thought it was acceptable to date Fram?

As far the the four comparisons..I like the first two over the latter two, mainly because in the first two you know you're talking to Fram and it's in the eyes of Dalma so that makes sense...just my preference <shrugs>

Early 20s... 16yo... Yeah, I guess it's fair ^^;

And they're not comparisons, they're a sequence ^^;...

monele wrote:A little problem remains... when it comes to romances and such. Obviously, Dalma is supposed to be the main character and most romances are meant for him... but will it feel like playing a romance for yourself... or playing a romance for Dalma? Will it still feel rewarding if you get a romance with Dalma or will it feel "yeah, eh, good for him >.>..."? ^^;...

Well... maybe this is because I'm a girl, but I always think that I am playing out a romance for "someone else" in a VN. I can't put myself entirely in the main characters shoes, and actually I prefer when he/she has a defined personality instead of trying to give the illusion that I am "inside" him/her.
I have heard a lot of males say the same thing in a recent discussion on Visualnews' forum.

I don't think it feels less rewarding. It's like reading any other book or watching a movie about this, where you root for the characters to get together. I can still relate to the characters ^^

I don't think it feels less rewarding. It's like reading any other book or watching a movie about this, where you root for the characters to get together. I can still relate to the characters ^^

Hmm... this is exactly why I felt it would work but I just couldn't crystalize the thought ^^;... Thanks ^.^ Now I'm pretty sure it'll work out, yay

Vatina wrote:Well... maybe this is because I'm a girl, but I always think that I am playing out a romance for "someone else" in a VN.

I hope it's not just 'cause you're a girl, 'cause I have the same thing...

It does seem like some conventions of the genre - like the 'voices for everyone but the protagonist' thing that was mentioned in the Missing Memoir thread the other day - presume otherwise, though. I wonder whether it's really because most players think like that, or just because most developers would like to encourage most players to think like that...